Army Meets Recruiting Goal For October...

jpeyton

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WASHINGTON -- The number of new recruits who scored at the bottom of the Army?s aptitude test tripled last month, helping the nation?s largest armed service meet its October recruiting goal but raising concerns about its long-term future.

Former Army Secretary Thomas White said the service is making a mistake by lowering its standards. ?I think it?s disastrous. You are throwing the towel in on recruiting quality,? said White, a retired general who was fired in 2003 by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld over policy differences.

?We have clear experience from the 1970s with recruiting a sizable number of people from the lowest mental categories,? said White. After the Vietnam War ended, the Army accepted a higher proportion of low-scoring recruits, which led to training and discipline problems, he added.

In order to achieve last month?s recruiting targets, 12 percent of those accepted by the Army had the lowest acceptable results. They scored between 16 and 30 points out of a possible 99 on an aptitude test that quizzes potential soldiers on general science, mathematics and word knowledge.

The Pentagon has set a limit saying that no more than 4 percent of all recruits can come from that lowest category. Army officials insisted that they will still meet the 4 percent goal -- despite the October spike -- when numbers are tallied for an entire year. October is the first month of the service?s fiscal year, which will end Sept. 30, 2006.

?We?re on track to meet our 4 percent annual goal,? said Lt. Col. Brian Hilferty, a spokesman for Army personnel. He declined to comment on the 12 percent figure.

The National Guard?s October recruit pool included 6 percent of the lowest scorers, though Guard officials also said they expected that figure to be below the 4 percent ceiling by the time the recruiting year ends. The number of poor-scoring recruits brought in by the Army Reserve, which officials said also achieved its monthly recruiting goal in October, could not be determined.

The Army, which has about 492,000 soldiers, hopes to attract 80,000 recruits in 2006 as part of an effort to increase the overall size of the force by 30,000 during the next several years. The Army National Guard has a goal of 70,000 recruits over the next year, in order to maintain its force of 350,000.

Officials blame the recruiting problems mainly on the war in Iraq and an improved economic climate at home, which has made it difficult to sign up volunteers for military duty.

Army Secretary Francis Harvey told reporters last month that the Army would begin accepting more people who score in the bottom third on the military?s aptitude test, increasing the proportion to 4 percent from 2 percent. The Army had kept the figure at 2 percent since 1990.

But Harvey failed to say that the Army already had brought in 4 percent -- or roughly 2,900 of its 73,000 recruits -- from the lowest category for the 2005 recruiting year, which ended Sept. 30. In 2004, the Army accepted just 440 soldiers from the lowest category, or about 0.6 percent of 70,000 recruits.

The National Guard also doubled its number of low-scoring recruits for the 2005 recruiting year, accounting for 4 percent of its 50,219 recruits.

Even with the lower standards, the Army and the National Guard fell short of their 2005 goals. When the annual recruiting cycle ended in September, the active-duty Army was about 7,000 shy of its goal, and the Guard fell about 13,000 short.

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Well at least the Army is finally moving towards a continuity of intelligence from the highest levels (C.I.C.) all the way down.

I guess scoring under 30 percent on a aptitude test means you demonstrate the [lack of] thinking the Army and National Guard are looking for.
 

musicman87

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Nov 7, 2005
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The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
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I'm really curious how dumb you have to be to score that low on that test.

Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

I'd say the steady paycheck with few requirements is the bigger bonus.
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

Stupid people have always flocked to the military. The only thing that has changed are the admissions requirements.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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It's unfortunate but it's not like this is anything new either. There have always been issuses with recruiters forgering high school diplomas and random crap such as that. It's just at high occurrance right now.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

That's a pretty short-sighted perspective. The military is or at least was seen as way for those in the lower class to rise up to middle class. Generally, this isn't the case anymore as it takes a lot more training to be solider and warfare has become much more complex.

While the military more often and does scrap up some of the less desirable of society, if I didn't have 4 feet of metal rods up my back I would have definalty have joined some of Air Force's ROTC programs and reap many of the finacial benifits.
 

Starbuck1975

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Jan 6, 2005
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The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.
Having a college education is hardly a measure of one's intelligence...many soldiers in our military serve not because they lack the ability to attend college, but because they lack the means...the G.I. bill is a huge incentive for many with the will to further their education, but lack the means or opportunities fresh out of high school.

I'd say the steady paycheck with few requirements is the bigger bonus
If by few requirements you mean a steady battle rhythm of training requirements and an operational tempo that far exceeds the 40 hour work week of corporate America...10 hour days were the norm in my unit, not to mention that training exercises, or deployment to combat zones, make the military a 24 hour job...if anything, our soldiers don't get payed enough given the demanding nature of their jobs.

Stupid people have always flocked to the military. The only thing that has changed are the admissions requirements.
I attended graduate school with many "stupid people." There are stupid people everywhere...to dismiss American soldiers as "stupid" certainly demonstrates your capacity for intelligent discussion.

It's unfortunate but it's not like this is anything new either. There have always been issuses with recruiters forgering high school diplomas and random crap such as that. It's just at high occurrance right now.
Funny, but there are numerous stories of American citizens who forged birth certificates and such so that they could serve during WW2...back then, such individuals were recognized and praised as heroes of their generation...now we dismiss them as stupid degenerates...the "bottom of the barrel" recruits you dismiss are cut from the same cloth as those soldiers who won the American Revolution, the Civil War, WW1, WW2 and every other major American war.

Many of America's top entrepreneurs and business leaders lack high school or college educations...some of the most intelligent and engaging people I have ever worked with dropped out of college in pursuit of opportunities beyond the corporate America rat race.

The elitist attitudes from some of you is astonishing.
 

mackle

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Dec 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.


Does everyone need to get into college first before everything else??? No, some people sick and tire of school (i'm one of them) and they wanna do something different instead from one level of school to another, get some degree, get a job or two, get marry, have a kid or two, and die....which is not fun at all..."Options" are good...
 

Strk

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Nov 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

I'd say the steady paycheck with few requirements is the bigger bonus
If by few requirements you mean a steady battle rhythm of training requirements and an operational tempo that far exceeds the 40 hour work week of corporate America...10 hour days were the norm in my unit, not to mention that training exercises, or deployment to combat zones, make the military a 24 hour job...if anything, our soldiers don't get payed enough given the demanding nature of their jobs.

I didn't mean it that way. I meant in terms of requirements to get into the service, not the requirements to stay in the service.

I was just saying, instead of people going there because they're dumb, which I don't think is the case (Well, except for the people in the OP ;)), they just don't have many options. The ability to get a career with decent pay and benefits is a huge bonus to someone who would otherwise be working at Burger King. It also provides them with training for when they leave the service.

Is this all people? No, but there are a lot like that. There are a lot of people out there with unfortunate circumstances and the military provides them with a lot of benefits they would not otherwise have; and it has nothing to do with stupidity.
 

Uhtrinity

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Dec 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: Strk
I'm really curious how dumb you have to be to score that low on that test.

Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

I'd say the steady paycheck with few requirements is the bigger bonus.


Well, I knew one guy who was in my unit who scored sub 30 on the asvab, he was slighly above legally retarded. He said that his recruiter had to pull some favors to get him in as a small arms repairman. Nice guy, but not a bright bulb.
 

Uhtrinity

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Dec 21, 2003
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Once you hit sub 30 you are talking infantryman for the most part. On that note I doubt any females in that score range would even be accepted.
 

Genx87

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Apr 8, 2002
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If you are so worried about thier aptitude why not sign up and help change this?
Obviously you are sooo smart!
 

cwjerome

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Sep 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The elitist attitudes from some of you is astonishing.


Isn't it? I guess they just don't know any better... poor ignorants.

Funny how degrading they are towards the military and its people, yet I wonder how they reconcile the fact that many P&N regulars -like yourself- have served well in our armed forces. I guess they don't mean those people :roll:
 

imported_Condor

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Sep 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

Stupid people have always flocked to the military. The only thing that has changed are the admissions requirements.

Some of the best IT people I know are in the military. I guess you don't approve of stereotyping and profiling, huh?

 

imported_Condor

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Sep 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

Military training was way more difficult than my 167 hours of university credits. They were very easy after eight years of military and industrial training. Lazy people flock to universities!

 

judasmachine

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Sep 15, 2002
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In vietnam they were taking the criminals, the smart, the dumb, and anyone else they could get their greedy grubby little fingers on...
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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Is this all people? No, but there are a lot like that. There are a lot of people out there with unfortunate circumstances and the military provides them with a lot of benefits they would not otherwise have; and it has nothing to do with stupidity.
Ok thank you for clarifying...it is true that military service does open doors in the civilian world that many soldiers would not have otherwise had access to...then again, civilian employers value the discipline, frame of mind, maturity and experience that ex-military bring to the table.
 

SarcasticDwarf

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Jun 8, 2001
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Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

Stupid people have always flocked to the military. The only thing that has changed are the admissions requirements.

Some of the best IT people I know are in the military. I guess you don't approve of stereotyping and profiling, huh?


I'll second that.


As for it only being people with no hope going into the Army, with my Basic Training group there were 2 millionairs (ack, can't spell today), two people that I knew of who had graduate degrees, etc. Out of the maybe 15 people whose ASVAB scored I knew, only 2 had below a 90 (one was a 4x, the other in the high 60's). Sure, there are some people that are dumber than bricks, but they are by no means the norm.
 

CaptnKirk

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Jul 25, 2002
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Plenty of underacheivers on this forum could change that just by doing their patriotic duty.

But they won't lift a finger, will they ?

Their patriotism ends with a 'Made in China' Pastriotism Ribbon on thier SUV.

Always an excuse - "It's not my calling, you see - I'm just too important for my ego"

ChickenHawks & RunningEagles - too full of BS to fly.
 

PELarson

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Mar 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: Strk
I'm really curious how dumb you have to be to score that low on that test.

Originally posted by: musicman87
The problem is that stupid people often flock to the military because they aren't smart enough to get scholarships to get into college.

I'd say the steady paycheck with few requirements is the bigger bonus.

Obviously smarter than Musicman87!
 

EatSpam

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May 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: Genx87
If you are so worried about thier aptitude why not sign up and help change this?
Obviously you are sooo smart!

Why would I sign up to go die in Iraq? That doesn't seem very smart. Why don't you sign up? You're of age.
 

Pabster

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Apr 15, 2001
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Nice to see all the old keyboard warriors labeling our military as a bunch of stupids.
 

Darkhawk28

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Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Pabster
Nice to see all the old keyboard warriors labeling our military as a bunch of stupids.

Nice to see all the keyboard commandos out apologizing from behind a computer monitor.