Army Charges 3 GIs With Murder in Iraq

[Brutuskend]

Army Charges 3 GIs With Murder in Iraq
By Associated Press
5 hours ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. Army has charged three soldiers in connection with the deaths of three Iraqis who were in military custody in northern Iraq last month, the military said Monday.

The Multinational Corps-Iraq said three members of 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division have been charged in connection with the deaths of three male detainees during an operation near Thar Thar Canal in northern Salahuddin province on May 9.

"A noncommissioned officer and two soldiers each have been charged with violating several articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, communicating a threat, and obstructing justice," an announcement said.

It added that "on the day the alleged murders occurred, the unit commander ordered an inquiry to determine the circumstances surrounding the deaths of the three detainees."

It said that a criminal investigation began May 17 and was ongoing.

"The soldiers are currently in pre-trial confinement awaiting an Article 32 hearing to determine if sufficient evidence exists for the case to be referred to court-martial," the announcement said

Once charged, defendants have the right to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a grand jury investigation.

Last week, the Army said it had opened a criminal investigation into the suspicious deaths of three men in military custody in Iraq.

The investigation was requested by Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, commander of multinational forces in Iraq, who acted after other soldiers raised suspicions about the deaths.

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What are your thoughts on this?
As a Viet Nam era veteran, I can see the futility in these kind of charges, but as a (Somewhat) normal human being, I can see how rules of war must be followed.

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

is that really winning? Personally i see that as a surrender.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

is that really winning? Personally i see that as a surrender.

In a moral sense yes, but in a real life "stop pulling this kind of SH!T" sense, no.

In Viet Nam who were the V.C. and N.V.A. really afraid of? Not the U.S. that's for sure, the R.O.K. Marines, because they had no qualms about fighting the enemy in the same way the enemy fought. We, as a "civilized" country go into every war we fight with our hands tied behind our backs. Not that that is a BAD thing, but it does make winning that much harder.

 

[dahunan]

War casualties are war casualties

Murder is Murder



What right did we have to cause war casualties over there anyways? Seems like the USA isn't following the nuclear non-proliferation treaties we signed so does that mean any country can just bomb the fvck out of us if they want to and then "murder" some of our civilians who try to force the Occupiers to get the F out?

 

[Witling]

Brutuskend. You seem completely unaware that the days of brutally wiping out populations are over. If that wasn't the case, Israel would be having Palestinian problems. Brutality simply toughens the resistence. I presume you want open season on women and children. The jury isn't in on Haditha yet but reports allege the killing of women and children.

 

[CaptnKirk]

It's a parallel of what overstressed and emotionally involved troops went through in 'Nam as well.


Sadly - the responsibility at the top never gets addressed. Shiit rolls downhill, and those who pushed
the Gung Ho and Hype down to the boots on the ground get away while the grunts get punished
for doing exactly as their chain of command forced them into.

 

[ScudRunner]

I hope they give them all medals

---------------------------------------------
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Please act accordingly.

Anandtech Moderator

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
It's a parallel of what overstressed and emotionally involved troops went through in 'Nam as well.


Sadly - the responsibility at the top never gets addressed. Shiit rolls downhill, and those who pushed
the Gung Ho and Hype down to the boots on the ground get away while the grunts get punished
for doing exactly as their chain of command forced them into.

Exactly.

I'm not condoning these actions, I'm just saying that in war things like this happen.

And it's also true that the best way to beat any enemy is to fight them as they fight you. Or at least fight back on a different level, one that makes sense. Look back to the revolutionary war. The red coats wore red and marched in a straight line while we hid behind rocks and trees and wore clothes that didn't stand out quite as much. I'm sure that to the British we were terrorist and that we didn't fight fair. But look who won.

In Nam it was the troops that fought back using any means available and using terror to demoralize the enemy that did the most good, the R.O.K.. If we had been able to use the same tactics maybe that war would have ended differently.

Once again I'm not saying we should. As a "civilized nation" we aren't allowed to use such means. But I have no doubt that if we DID use the same tactics things would be a lot different over there than they are now.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

is that really winning? Personally i see that as a surrender.

In a moral sense yes, but in a real life "stop pulling this kind of SH!T" sense, no.

In Viet Nam who were the V.C. and N.V.A. really afraid of? Not the U.S. that's for sure, the R.O.K. Marines, because they had no qualms about fighting the enemy in the same way the enemy fought. We, as a "civilized" country go into every war we fight with our hands tied behind our backs. Not that that is a BAD thing, but it does make winning that much harder.

I agree. Look at how we won America from British rule. The British were all standing around in lines wearing bright red coats while Mel Gibson was ambushing them from the forest . We see how far honor and chivalry got the Brits in the American revolution. Honor and chivalry are great for getting you laid but they will loose you a war where the enemy has no qualms in resorting to guerilla warfare and terrorist tactics.

EDIT : Dang you said about the same thing in your follow up post already. I will report to the head chief commander of the office of redundant redundancy for disciplinary measures.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

is that really winning? Personally i see that as a surrender.

In a moral sense yes, but in a real life "stop pulling this kind of SH!T" sense, no.

In Viet Nam who were the V.C. and N.V.A. really afraid of? Not the U.S. that's for sure, the R.O.K. Marines, because they had no qualms about fighting the enemy in the same way the enemy fought. We, as a "civilized" country go into every war we fight with our hands tied behind our backs. Not that that is a BAD thing, but it does make winning that much harder.

Needs more Mai Lai, amirite? Ah, don't you long for the good old days when you could rape and murder a village of women and children and actually get away with it?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Army Charges 3 GIs With Murder in Iraq
By Associated Press
5 hours ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. Army has charged three soldiers in connection with the deaths of three Iraqis who were in military custody in northern Iraq last month, the military said Monday.

The Multinational Corps-Iraq said three members of 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division have been charged in connection with the deaths of three male detainees during an operation near Thar Thar Canal in northern Salahuddin province on May 9.

"A noncommissioned officer and two soldiers each have been charged with violating several articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, communicating a threat, and obstructing justice," an announcement said.

It added that "on the day the alleged murders occurred, the unit commander ordered an inquiry to determine the circumstances surrounding the deaths of the three detainees."

It said that a criminal investigation began May 17 and was ongoing.

"The soldiers are currently in pre-trial confinement awaiting an Article 32 hearing to determine if sufficient evidence exists for the case to be referred to court-martial," the announcement said

Once charged, defendants have the right to an Article 32 hearing, the military equivalent of a grand jury investigation.

Last week, the Army said it had opened a criminal investigation into the suspicious deaths of three men in military custody in Iraq.

The investigation was requested by Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, commander of multinational forces in Iraq, who acted after other soldiers raised suspicions about the deaths.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are your thoughts on this?
As a Viet Nam era veteran, I can see the futility in these kind of charges, but as a (Somewhat) normal human being, I can see how rules of war must be followed.

Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

You see what your vision and imagination allow you to see, in my opinion. There is only one war that needs fighting and that is the war to live like a man whose actions leave nothing to regret, who can look at his life and say, 'I always acted with loving self respect'.

There is only one form of killing that does not blacken the soul and that is the killing of madmen who are trying to kill you. Iraq did not attack us or pose an imminent threat and everything we do there redounds to our disrespect.

There is the battle the millions of small wars and the greater war of the truth of ideas, the battle between good and evil, that has raged since the fall of man. It is he who fights that greater war that is the warrior. There is only Love, Goodness, Truth, Light, Beauty, Harmony, and Perfection in this life and all else is illusion and he or she who lives thereby enters into it.

There is nothing to he who fills time that is empty.

America is a nation in which some of the deepest and highest truths of man flowed our of the pens of our founders via our in our Constitution and the rule of law it represents. We are a nation that says that the right to become what we are at one's deepest is a right that's inalienable. We are a nation that says no man can take your Light, that you have the right to a soul that is free and that everybody else has that right.

America is a mighty beacon of light in a sea of darkness and repression and the world looks to us for salvation, or so it was just a while ago and so we thought. Maybe some of that has been lost in the effort to buy a new car and keep it full of gas. Maybe now we're just a bunch of phony bastards that no longer care. Maybe we only pretended we believed in the light, and when the chips are down we act like the filthy rest. Maybe it's time for the light to move on in search of a better people.

Hell, if you are as bad as your enemy, I mean as excellently ruthless and unprincipled, who really cares who wins. It won't make a dime of difference.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. HAHAHAHAHAHA! Isn't that a big f@cking joke. The pig is king.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Still, in a war such as we are now committed too and given the nature of the enemy, the only way I see we could EVER win is to be as ruthless as they are.

No, because you'll turn those who wouldn't have been enemies, into enemies. Look at Israel. Everytime they bomb a city, the shopowner who lost his daughter, becomes a potential suicide bomber. The kid that lost his father, grows up to be a potential terrorist.

 

[sandorski]

The US has no legitimate reason for being in Iraq in the first place.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

In Viet Nam who were the V.C. and N.V.A. really afraid of? Not the U.S. that's for sure, the R.O.K. Marines, because they had no qualms about fighting the enemy in the same way the enemy fought. We, as a "civilized" country go into every war we fight with our hands tied behind our backs. Not that that is a BAD thing, but it does make winning that much harder.

It wasn't really that simplistic. The ROK Tigers didn't really fight the NAV & VC using the same tactic,
what they DID DO was use the same tactics that the NVA and the VC used on the indiginous civilian population,
who were enablers of the VC/NVA war tactics.

The ROK Tigers wouldn't hesitate to cut a baby to bits with a machete while in the arms of a mother
when the 'Interogator' didn't receive the information that they wanted, or to chop off the head or hands of the children
in the presence of the parents in order to loosen the lips of those in the room.
While our forces stood back and allowed the foriegn interrogation teams to work their magic . . .
Just like the NVA and VC would - but there just is no respect for life in that culture, but the vengeful paybacks are guaranteed.

 

[dahunan]

pretty sad.. and we called ourselves a Christian Nation^^ ..