ARM: Intel a 'serious competitor', we're still better

[zsdersw]

lots of people i see on the train have kindles because reading is the only feature they care about. internet and email are not that big a deal to them on a tablet and some casual games are good as well. $79 to $249 are the right price points for the features they want.

they don't care if their tablet doesn't have the latest GPU to run infinity blade or dead space.

if it wasn't for the content there would be nothing to do with them and this market is not going to spend $400 to $500 on a 10" tablet. instead of pushing specs most android tab makers should have made lists of what people want to do, how much they want to spend and then make a product

That market isn't going to spend a lot more for a 10" tablet even if it is from Amazon or B&N... so the original claim that I responded to... that their 10" tablets are going to kill all the other Android tablets... is nonsense.

 

[alent1234]

next year amazon will sell a 10" tablet for $199 with the same bill of materials. not like the prices for the components will go up or stay the same

i think what happened was that apple has a 3-5 year time frame of releasing a new product and then selling a cheaper low end version for the low end of the market. amazon needed to get into the low end before apple did and rushed the kindle

 

[quest55720]

A pound of butter weighs a pound.

Now that we've dispensed with the irrelevant facts...

They're the best-selling because of the low price point, not because of the exclusive content.

Why do you think they can sell a tablet at or near cost? Because they sell content and other services. The big 3 (apple,BN,amazon) can under cut all other tablet makers because of other revenue streams. Amazon and BN will be able to have the best cheap tablets on the market. As we have seen this market outside the IPAD is 99% price driven.

 

[zsdersw]

next year amazon will sell a 10" tablet for $199 with the same bill of materials.

I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[alent1234]

i think that amazon has to sell the kindle whether they like it or not or risk losing most of their book and music business. which means less visitors for their other revenue streams

 

[alent1234]

I'll believe that when I see it.

why not?

no retina, flash is about to drop in price with the new factories, new wifi standard means everything else will get cheaper. dual core CPU's are already going to be entry level this year

ipad 2 BoM was $250 when it was released. $200 for something similar or worse later this year is not impossible

 

[zsdersw]

Why do you think they can sell a tablet at or near cost? Because they sell content and other services. The big 3 (apple,BN,amazon) can under cut all other tablet makers because of other revenue streams. Amazon and BN will be able to have the best cheap tablets on the market. As we have seen this market outside the IPAD is 99% price driven.

- Apple doesn't sell the iPad "at or near cost".

- Price competition will occur, but it won't "kill" other Android tablets.

 

[zsdersw]

why not?

Why should they sell it for $199?

no retina, flash is about to drop in price with the new factories, new wifi standard means everything else will get cheaper. dual core CPU's are already going to be entry level this year

ipad 2 BoM was $250 when it was released. $200 for something similar or worse later this year is not impossible

Not impossible != likely.

 

[quest55720]

- Apple doesn't sell the iPad "at or near cost".

- Price competition will occur, but it won't "kill" other Android tablets.

Apple does not have to but they could. We might see an IPAD 3 with a quad core and retina display for the price of a transformer prime. How does ASUS compete with that? Or when amazon brings out a 199.99 10 inch tablet how does samsung compete with that?

Of course it will kill the other tablet makers how do they make keep in the market when other competitors have subsidized products? Especially in a price driven market.

 

[alent1234]

because in the high tech 21st century things like books and music are locked to devices/apps/ecosystems.

if i buy an ipad, nook, transformer or another tablet then amazon may be more likely to lose me as a customer. and having customers use Silk is a selling point for AWS, EC2 and their other cloud services. once they get data about their customers' surfing habits they can actively market to companies that don't do business with amazon yet to host content on their cloud

 

[quest55720]

Why should they sell it for $199?



Not impossible != likely.

Amazon wants people vested in thier eco system. Selling a 7 inch and 10 inch tablets at cost is damn good way to get people hooked. Once they have you hooked into a ecosystem you are customer for a long time. How many millions did they get hooked into the ecosystem this fall with a 199.99 tablet? Next step is to capture even more of the market with a cheap 10 inch tablet.

 

[quest55720]

because in the high tech 21st century things like books and music are locked to devices/apps/ecosystems.

if i buy an ipad, nook, transformer or another tablet then amazon may be more likely to lose me as a customer. and having customers use Silk is a selling point for AWS, EC2 and their other cloud services. once they get data about their customers' surfing habits they can actively market to companies that don't do business with amazon yet to host content on their cloud

Amazon even has it better. A person buys or gets a fire as a gift and reads about prime and streaming and borrowing books. So the person signs up for prime which includes free 2 day shipping. So the person uses amazon for all thier online shopping because the free 2 day shipping. I don't see how any other android tablet maker can compete with that extra revenue streams.

 

[zsdersw]

Apple does not have to but they could. We might see an IPAD 3 with a quad core and retina display for the price of a transformer prime. How does ASUS compete with that? Or when amazon brings out a 199.99 10 inch tablet how does samsung compete with that?

No they couldn't; it wouldn't make them as much money.

What's more likely is that the iPad 3 will come out at $499 and the iPad 2 will remain in production for $399.

Of course it will kill the other tablet makers how do they make keep in the market when other competitors have subsidized products? Especially in a price driven market.

Of course it won't. In order to have a chance at killing anything Amazon and/or B&N's tablets would have to become the only devices upon which their content can be accessed... which is not what is being talked about or, likely, planned.

 

[zsdersw]

because in the high tech 21st century things like books and music are locked to devices/apps/ecosystems.

No they're not. Some are, most are not. If I want a particular song, book, or video I don't need to get it from one particular place with one particular device.

 

[alent1234]

for most new books and movies along with TV shows it's true

 

[quest55720]

No they couldn't; it wouldn't make them as much money.

What's more likely is that the iPad 3 will come out at $499 and the iPad 2 will remain in production for $399.

Exactly the 499.99 IPAD 3 will out class the transformer prime with a retina display at the same price point. How does ASUS compete with that? Apple sells a ton of content to help curb the cost until the price of production comes down. Why do you think apple is able to sell tablets with better specs and build quality at the same price point as the high end android tablets?

Non content sellers will be pushed out of the market over the next year. It is already starting on the low end with amazon owning the low end market.

 

[zsdersw]

Exactly the 499.99 IPAD 3 will out class the transformer prime with a retina display at the same price point. How does ASUS compete with that? Apple sells a ton of content to help curb the cost until the price of production comes down. Why do you think apple is able to sell tablets with better specs and build quality at the same price point as the high end android tablets?

It doesn't cost Apple $499 to make the iPad 2 and it won't cost them $499 to make the iPad 3. They sell for the highest amount they can. ASUS competes with that by being the alternative to Apple; the anti-Apple.

Non content sellers will be pushed out of the market over the next year.

Not gonna happen. Show me the plans to pull Amazon/B&N apps from other Android devices.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

for most new books and movies along with TV shows it's true

New books aren't locked to specific platform, there is a Kindle app for every major OS and even a web version.

Movies and TV are more restricted if you want digital copies but I can't see the appeal of going that route at this point. Personally I just buy all of my movies on Bluray since the quality is vastly superior to any of the alternatives.

 

[Super56K]

why not?

no retina, flash is about to drop in price with the new factories, new wifi standard means everything else will get cheaper. dual core CPU's are already going to be entry level this year

ipad 2 BoM was $250 when it was released. $200 for something similar or worse later this year is not impossible

I don't see that happening unless the current 7" tablet is reduced to $150 or something. Even then it's a stretch because it leads me to wonder why Amazon would ruffle the feathers of all those 7" Fire owners by selling a 10" version for the same price, not to mention why they would want to cannibalize their own product by stuffing the $199 price point.

 

[Patranus]

Here is the problem I see with the Intel solution. It takes a one size fits all approach like their x86 CPU line.

With ARM, you are licensing their instruction sets and base designs and then are able to highly customize it to your application.

So if Apple wants to include special instruction sets and optimize their OS for those special instruction sets they can do that with ARM but would be unable to do that with this new intel platform.

 

[quest55720]

I don't see that happening unless the current 7" tablet is reduced to $150 or something. Even then it's a stretch because it leads me to wonder why Amazon would ruffle the feathers of all those 7" Fire owners by selling a 10" version for the same price, not to mention why they would want to cannibalize their own product by stuffing the $199 price point.

Why would current fire owners be mad about a new tablet 6-12 months later? It happens to all products they get better and cheaper every year. I don't see people mad at apple for new better products each year. I think it has been shown that 199.99 is basically the magic price point for non apple tablets. The nook color and now fire are the best selling android tablets and that was the price point of both. Amazon can cover the whole market with both tablets then. They would basically own the whole low end tablet market and suck all those people into thier ecosystem. It would be a huge win for amazon just like the current fire is.

 

[alent1234]

New books aren't locked to specific platform, there is a Kindle app for every major OS and even a web version.

Movies and TV are more restricted if you want digital copies but I can't see the appeal of going that route at this point. Personally I just buy all of my movies on Bluray since the quality is vastly superior to any of the alternatives.

the purchase is still locked to the kindle app or a kindle device. it's not like i can buy an epub and load it onto any device i choose.

if amazon sells enough kindles they can start pulling the kindle app from some other android tablets to drive sales of their product

 

[alent1234]

I don't see that happening unless the current 7" tablet is reduced to $150 or something. Even then it's a stretch because it leads me to wonder why Amazon would ruffle the feathers of all those 7" Fire owners by selling a 10" version for the same price, not to mention why they would want to cannibalize their own product by stuffing the $199 price point.

why not just sell a 10" tablet for $199 later this year and kill the 7" version? they only did it to make a price point. or kill of some of the black and white kindles and replace with a kindle fire?

 

[Red Storm]

if amazon sells enough kindles they can start pulling the kindle app from some other android tablets to drive sales of their product

If Amazon did that I'd stop buying books from them. I can always go to the Nook or Google book stores, which I have done for my latest round of book purchases.

 

[MrX8503]

Exactly the 499.99 IPAD 3 will out class the transformer prime with a retina display at the same price point. How does ASUS compete with that? Apple sells a ton of content to help curb the cost until the price of production comes down. Why do you think apple is able to sell tablets with better specs and build quality at the same price point as the high end android tablets?

By volume.

Apple buys more flash memory, displays, and SOC's than anyone on the market by a very large margin. They bought so many displays that the initial Android manufacturers had a hard time getting a hold of displays.

Apple does make money off of content, but they also make a considerable amount off of the device itself. Currently, no other tablet manufacturer has this luxury.