ARM challenges Intel in PCs

[ub4ty]

https://www.pcworld.com/article/329...el-in-pcs-with-deimos-and-hercules-chips.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13234/gigabyte-starts-sales-of-cavium-thunderx2-to-general-customers

It seems die shrink gains over Intel is allowing everyone to come at Intel's throat in 2019/2020.

Apple's mobile line is already tied to ARM and there has been talk of cross-over into their laptop/desktop lines.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/3/17191986/apple-intel-cpu-processor-design-competition

Competition from all over the landscape. Good for the consumer.
Hopefully the same occurs with DDR and subsequent pricing therein.

 

[TheELF]

Clean Server benchmark,has to be compiled(can be compiled to run better or worse than it has to) Arm estimated,graph not to scale....trust me brah I'm ARM.

 

[USER8000]

Clean Server benchmark,has to be compiled(can be compiled to run better or worse than it has to) Arm estimated,graph not to scale....trust me brah I'm ARM.

Well they seem to be doing something right, as most of the tablets and phones in the world are using the ARM instruction set and more and more people are using such devices as their primary ones.

 

[ub4ty]

Well they seem to be doing something right, as most of the tablets and phones in the world are using the ARM instruction set and more and more people are using such devices as their primary ones.

The big hit will come IMO when Apple makes a strong crossover in their laptops/etc to ARM.
Native ARM runs just fine. Otherwise, the huge performance discrepancy comes when they have to emulate x86. There are a number of applications/OS that run native to ARM. So, a cross-over is expected soon. I can't imagine anything that wont have serious competition in the coming years. It reminds me of the prior exciting periods in computing when there was tons happening all at once.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Intel will be hurt a little by losing Mac sales, but that's only 5% of the PC market. AMD starting to compete again has hurt them more.

 

[ultimatebob]

Damn, it looks like Intel should be scared for 2020. AMD is already challenging them on the high end workstation and performance desktop markets, and now you got Arm stealing their bread and butter on the laptop and high-end convertible tablet markets.

 

[CHADBOGA]

So is this the 5th or 6th time that ARM challenges Intel over the last 5 years?

 

[whm1974]

My main issue with using ARM in a Personal Computer is that so far ARM devices are close platforms. The nice thing about x86 based PCs is that there is no gatekeeper(Microsoft Store aside) to control and limit what OSes or software I can have install on the hardware I own and paid for.

 

[ultimatebob]

So is this the 5th or 6th time that ARM challenges Intel over the last 5 years?

They already beat them with phones and cheap tablets. Looks like they're setting their sights upward.

 

[whm1974]

They already beat them with phones and cheap tablets. Looks like they're setting their sights upward.

Other then WinRT devices, are there any ARM based PCs on the market?

 

[ultimatebob]

Other then WinRT devices, are there any ARM based PCs on the market?

Yes, there is an "S" version of Windows 10 for ARM, and a handful of ARM powered laptops out there. I think that they'll get more popular once they start outperforming the Intel and AMD laptop processors.

 

[CHADBOGA]

They already beat them with phones and cheap tablets. Looks like they're setting their sights upward.

Just like they did with the ARM version of Microsoft Surface.

 

[whm1974]

Yes, there is an "S" version of Windows 10 for ARM, and a handful of ARM powered laptops out there. I think that they'll get more popular once they start outperforming the Intel and AMD laptop processors.

I know about the ~$100 Pinebook with uses an ARM CPU and runs Linux.

 

[Shivansps]

I dont see anything great with ARM, ARM may have great idle power, but as soon as you start to do ANYTHING that demands a little of cpu horsepower they eat power just like x86.

And ARM being able to run x86 on Windows ARM is just not enoght either, we are being moving out of pure x86 intro x86-64 for a few years now.

 

[whm1974]

I dont see anything great with ARM, ARM may have great idle power, but as soon as you start to do ANYTHING that demands a little of cpu horsepower they eat power just like x86.

And ARM being able to run x86 on Windows ARM is just not enoght either, we are being moving out of pure x86 intro x86-64 for a few years now.

That is the thing about using ARM for PCs, you need to have the OS and applications designed with ARM in mind.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I dont see anything great with ARM, ARM may have great idle power, but as soon as you start to do ANYTHING that demands a little of cpu horsepower they eat power just like x86.

And ARM being able to run x86 on Windows ARM is just not enoght either, we are being moving out of pure x86 intro x86-64 for a few years now.

Perhaps, but the trend (as always) is towards miniaturization. And ARM has a clear lead in this regard. x86 just doesn't seem to scale down as efficiently.

 

[ub4ty]

So is this the 5th or 6th time that ARM challenges Intel over the last 5 years?

A large amount of 'computing' is just media consumption. Most people are consumers not producers. A large # of hours is spent browsing the web and consuming media on the cloud. You don't need a powerful processor for this and codecs have settled on standards to allow for hardware acceleration. A roku stick can play 4k content. So, how many years has ARM been growing their share of 'computing'? Lots.. "Embedded" computing was largely ignored before it was too late. Intel tried to have a run at it and failed epically. Now, MacOSX/Linux have native runtimes and popular 'embedded' devices have now become the defacto interface for the majority of people to the internet relegating traditional processors to producer minded individuals and enthusiasts. So... ARM has actually captured a large segment of computing. They challenged intel some years ago and won. AMD was nowhere to be found. Computing changes from age to age. I don't think many people are appreciating that and are somewhat overestimating what the 'majority' do w/ compute platforms.

The trend has been to appify and cloudify everything that isn't nailed down. Your average person uses a thin client to access the cloud. This is why traditional PC desktop sales have been so weak whereas tablets and cellphones have sold volumes. ARM dominates there and has sway. If you're a developer and in it for the riches, you develop for phone/tablet/app markets (aka ARM). Not to mention the slew of cross compilers and strides made to ensure a developer is shielded from the underlying hardware.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'll always love a beefy x86/x64 PC to surf the net (got me a Ryzen 6C/12T with 16GB of DDR4, and an SSD, and a dGPU), but ... sometimes I use my phone, when I'm away from my PC. It's a quad-core ARM, middle-of-the-road, pretty slow overall.

If ARM is to change that, and upset the status quo, they still have a LONG way to go, IMHO. Sure, they may have similar performance-per-watt or even an advantage in that category, (as in Apple's custom ARM cores) compared to an Intel big-core 'U' CPU, but put them to any kind of real work, and the x86/x64 powers though, but the ARM, well, it doesn't seem like it has the advantage anymore.

I had an ARM laptop, it was that $99 CVS Netbook (google it), a few years ago. It was a TOY, not a laptop. Yes, it could get on the Internet, but it was so limited and slow, it was far more efficient to use my x86/x64 laptop that I had purchased while on vacation, even though the ARM Netbook had twice the battery life. It was so much slower, than it was actually far MORE INEFFICIENT.

 

[whm1974]

I'll always love a beefy x86/x64 PC to surf the net (got me a Ryzen 6C/12T with 16GB of DDR4, and an SSD, and a dGPU), but ... sometimes I use my phone, when I'm away from my PC. It's a quad-core ARM, middle-of-the-road, pretty slow overall.

If ARM is to change that, and upset the status quo, they still have a LONG way to go, IMHO. Sure, they may have similar performance-per-watt or even an advantage in that category, (as in Apple's custom ARM cores) compared to an Intel big-core 'U' CPU, but put them to any kind of real work, and the x86/x64 powers though, but the ARM, well, it doesn't seem like it has the advantage anymore.

I had an ARM laptop, it was that $99 CVS Netbook (google it), a few years ago. It was a TOY, not a laptop. Yes, it could get on the Internet, but it was so limited and slow, it was far more efficient to use my x86/x64 laptop that I had purchased while on vacation, even though the ARM Netbook had twice the battery life. It was so much slower, than it was actually far MORE INEFFICIENT.

I think a big problem with ARM based notebooks is that they have a low amount of memory and slow and very little storage. They only thing they are good for is watching videos. Sorry but having only one GB or sometimes two GB of memory doesn't cut it with today's internet or applications.

 

[ub4ty]

I'll always love a beefy x86/x64 PC to surf the net (got me a Ryzen 6C/12T with 16GB of DDR4, and an SSD, and a dGPU), but ... sometimes I use my phone, when I'm away from my PC. It's a quad-core ARM, middle-of-the-road, pretty slow overall.

If ARM is to change that, and upset the status quo, they still have a LONG way to go, IMHO. Sure, they may have similar performance-per-watt or even an advantage in that category, (as in Apple's custom ARM cores) compared to an Intel big-core 'U' CPU, but put them to any kind of real work, and the x86/x64 powers though, but the ARM, well, it doesn't seem like it has the advantage anymore.

I had an ARM laptop, it was that $99 CVS Netbook (google it), a few years ago. It was a TOY, not a laptop. Yes, it could get on the Internet, but it was so limited and slow, it was far more efficient to use my x86/x64 laptop that I had purchased while on vacation, even though the ARM Netbook had twice the battery life. It was so much slower, than it was actually far MORE INEFFICIENT.

I browse the web and consume most of my media on an i5 dual core w/ 8GB of ddr3 memory and integrated graphics
I have 4/8/16 core but they serve different duties.
Majority of people are on dual and quad i5s. I7s/i9s and higher core count ryzen processors aren't needed for day to day computing. Lower power, smaller form factor, less heat, portability win in the broader segment. My daily coding rig used to be a lower power small form factor NUC because I could toss it in my bag when going to and from my office. Don't need hella cores for writing code. For big compiles and runtime, I export it over to my bigger rigs on demand.

This is where ARM is targeting and I'd say its the majority of desktop users.
Gamers/Producers/enthusiast who need beefy rigs are the minority. All the major codecs are hardware accelerated so don't consume much CPU. Intel makes lots of scratch on i3s/i5s and below.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/29/pegatron-to-make-arm-based-apple-macbook/

Apple will set the standard in this way.

 

[whm1974]

I browse the web and consume most of my media on an i5 dual core w/ 8GB of ddr3 memory and integrated graphics
I have 4/8/16 core but they serve different duties.
Majority of people are on dual and quad i5s. I7s/i9s and higher core count ryzen processors aren't needed for day to day computing. Lower power, smaller form factor, less heat, portability win in the broader segment. My daily coding rig used to be a lower power small form factor NUC because I could toss it in my bag when going to and from my office. Don't need hella cores for writing code. For big compiles and runtime, I export it over to my bigger rigs on demand.

This is where ARM is targeting and I'd say its the majority of desktop users.
Gamers/Producers/enthusiast who need beefy rigs are the minority. All the major codecs are hardware accelerated so don't consume much CPU. Intel makes lots of scratch on i3s/i5s and below.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/29/pegatron-to-make-arm-based-apple-macbook/

Apple will set the standard in this way.

I doubt that I will replace my x86-64 Desktop anytime soon as I doubt an ARM based one would offer the same performance and extendibility. I prefer to build my desktops, so when can I build an ARM based PC?

 

[Nothingness]

So is this the 5th or 6th time that ARM challenges Intel over the last 5 years?

I think it's the first time that ARM Ltd is directly talking of competing against an Intel Core class chip.

Of course let's not talk about server

 

[IntelUser2000]

The most important thing in this announcement was alluded to by Pat Gelsinger(former Intel CTO).

The ecosystem(ARM with phones, Intel with PCs) dynamic one from entering the other market.

These types of announcements exist to keep Intel honest. It dissuades them from becoming a greedy monopoly and not trying at all. As long as ARM executes in their core market, and Intel theirs, I don't see the big picture changing anytime soon.

 

[TheGiant]

If Intel delivers- 10nm and IPC increase nothing will change
The scale up for ARM wont happen overnight, we see it in servers....low power efficient cores in mobiles vs server scale chips and the extreme core count penalty for optimizing SW

 

[whm1974]

If Intel delivers- 10nm and IPC increase nothing will change
The scale up for ARM wont happen overnight, we see it in servers....low power efficient cores in mobiles vs server scale chips and the extreme core count penalty for optimizing SW

Well I'm sure AMD will do its part to help keep x86-64 based PCs relevant for a long time to come.