Arizona has more APCs and Military Choppers than many small countries.

[unokitty]

WASHINGTON – Arizona state agencies have received enough military equipment from the Department of Defense’s program 1033 to outfit a small country...

... 29 armored personnel carriers and nine military helicopters...

Arizona police and other agencies have received millions of dollars worth of free gear under a Defense Department program. Looked at another way, the state has received more helicopters and armored personnel carriers than the militaries of some nations.

- Arizona: 29 armored personnel carriers; 9 helicopters; 6.5 million population
- Mauritania: 25 APCs; 3 helicopters; 3.4 million
- Niger: 24 APCs; 5 helicopters; 16.9 million
- Tajikistan: 23 APCs; 15 helicopters; 7.9 million
- Benin: 22 APCs; 5 helicopters; 9.9 million
- Djibouti: 20 APCs; 5 helicopters; 0.8 million
- Mali: 19 APCs; 4 helicopters; 16.0 million
- Mauritius: 16 APCs; 6 helicopters; 1.3 million
- Suriname: 15 APCs; 0 helicopters; 0.6 million
- Tanzania: 14 APCs; 9 helicopters; 48.3 million
- Burkina Faso: 13 APCs; 6 helicopters; 17.8 million
- Libya: 11 APCs; 12 helicopters; 6.0 million
- Malawi: 10 APCs; 3 helicopters; 16.8 million
- Equatorial Guinea: 10 APCs; 10 helicopters; 0.7 million
- Latvia: 8 APCs; 6 helicopters; 2.1 million
- Jamaica: 4 APCs; 7 helicopters; 2.9 million
- South Sudan: 0 APCs; 10 helicopters; 11.1 million
- Honduras: 0 APCs; 10 helicopters; 8.4 million
- Papua-New Guinea: 0 APCs; 7 helicopters; 6.4 million
- Lesotho: 0 APCs; 5 helicopters; 1.9 million
- Costa Rica: 0 APCs; 3 helicopters; 4.7 million
- Trinidad and Tobago: 0 APCs; 3 helicopters; 1.2 million
- Guyana: 0 APCs; 3 helicopters; 0.7 million
- Malta: 0 APCs; 3 helicopters; 0.4 million
- Sierra Leone: 0 APCs; 2 helicopters; 5.6 million
- Timor-Leste: 0 APCs; 0 helicopters; 1.2 million
- Cape Verde: 0 APCs; 0 helicopters; 0.5 million

In addition to APC’s and helicopters, the state has received almost 800 M-16 automatic rifles, more than 400 bayonets and more than 700 night-vision goggles...

Citizens of Arizona need to feel more secure than the citizens of countries with less military hardware?

Or, Arizona ahead of the curve?

Or, something else in play?

What's your opinion?

Uno

 

[smackababy]

Arizona also has more Mexicans than many small countries. Coincidence? You be the judge.


The only issue here is what should the US military do with surplus military grade equipment? Should we sell it to other countries? That has worked out really well for us in the past. Should we simply destroy it? Lots of waste in that. Should we donate it to police forces? The implications of them using it is rather scary (even if you support police, you can't agree they have the proper training to operate this equipment safely), but it is the best option.

 

[Newell Steamer]

I am going to have to place this ramp up on wanting to match/beat what the South American drug cartels have access to.

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't get the hubbub about this stuff. The military has used the equipment and no longer needs it, I don't see any problem in making use of the stuff we've already paid for. The problem I see is that local jurisdictions and departments want stuff they have no reasonable use for.

The helicopters in AZ could easily be deployed to sweep the border with mexico and keep out the illegals, they don't even need to be armed to do so. I don't see why some small police forces think they need APC's etc though, that doesn't make sense.

 

[Genx87]

It will come in handy when they go to war.

 

[Moonbeam]

All part of the terrorist plot to bankrupt the US. They are certainly winning. A true conservative would wear a monk robe and allow himself to be blown up rather that screaming for politicians to defend him. All they know how to do is spend money. You can't eliminate fear, you have to face it. And besides, most folk don't try to kill monks, or even pot smoking hippies. It's capitalist superpowers they envy.

 

[maddogchen]

stupid, who measures things in APCs today? Its all about measuring in TANKS!!

 

[Sonikku]

No one recognized the Ebola risk.

Every American was lulled into a false sense of security, believing it was all just slow media days making a mountain out of an ant hill.

No one saw the need to subtly upgrade America's domestic forces for the eminent zombie apocalypse, rationalizing such expenditures through whatever excuse possible. No one, but one man.

 

[smackababy]

Zombie crisis averted? Thanks Obama.

 

[Nebor]

Don't forget the Arizona National Guard and their AH-64 Apache gunships. They have a compelling argument against the federal government taking their Apaches: We might need them to fight you.

Hahahaha.

 

[MongGrel]

Arizona is a pretty high end testing ground for military crap in general I guess.

Like Yuma for Top Gun, at least it used to be I don't know these days.

Really doesn't surprise me much as so much avionics/navigation etc is developed in Phoenix, half of what the police are using out there on choppers is military testing and R&D I'd think.

Is where choppers are born and raised more or less I'd imagine.

 

[The Merg]

APC's have proven essential for officers in deploying for hostage/barricade situations as it can get officers close to a subject without putting anyone at risk. The M16's are just the rifles that officers are being issued nowadays. I have no idea what the would need a bayonet for though. That's just completely out there. As for the helicopters, does it say what kind they are? Obviously, there is no need for an Apache, but a Bell chopper can easily be used for searching for people and can be outfitted for medical transports as well. One jurisdiction near me cross-trains the flight officers as paramedics and their primary mission are medical calls. Even if they are assisting on a vehicle chase, if a medical call comes out they will head off to that.

- Merg

 

[werepossum]

No one recognized the Ebola risk.

Every American was lulled into a false sense of security, believing it was all just slow media days making a mountain out of an ant hill.

No one saw the need to subtly upgrade America's domestic forces for the eminent zombie apocalypse, rationalizing such expenditures through whatever excuse possible. No one, but one man.

+1

 

[Nebor]

Arizona is a pretty high end testing ground for military crap in general I guess.

Like Yuma for Top Gun, at least it used to be I don't know these days.

Really doesn't surprise me much as so much avionics/navigation etc is developed in Phoenix, half of what the police are using out there on choppers is military testing and R&D I'd think.

Is where choppers are born and raised more or less I'd imagine.

There's a Marine Corps Air Station Yuma as well as the Army's Yuma Proving Ground. The Yuma Proving Ground is best known for hosting High Altitude jump school, though a lot of military equipment testing goes on there.

 

[unokitty]

Military spends $100,000+ to bring back each 'unneeded' MRAP from the Middle East. Then, gives MRAP to US police departments for 'free.'

Marine Corps and Army burned over $100 million during a one-year period shipping unneeded MRAPs and other vehicles from Afghanistan back to the US. As many as one out of every nine Army and USMC vehicles shipped back to the US is "unneeded," says the GAO, while each individual vehicle could cost as much as $107,400 in shipping fees...

Instead, it may have been more cost effective to destroy the surplus trucks and leave their remains in Afghanistan. Of course, such a move would put a major ding in the DOD's controversial 1033 program.

"Due to ineffective internal controls, the Army and Marine Corps may be incurring unnecessary costs by returning equipment that potentially exceeds service needs or is not economical to return and repair," the report says, according to Army Times.

Do I understand this correctly?

Federal government buys MRAPs from defence industry for a little over $700,000 each.

When they are no longer needed, military pays over $100,000 each to ship MRAP back to states.

Department of Defense then gives 'unneeded' MRAPs to Police Departments for 'free.'

Defense industry gets profits.
Police Department gets 'free' armored vehicle...
Citizens gets bill for over $800,000 to buy and transport 'unneeded' MRAPS.

War is a racket. Always has been.

Uno

 

[brycejones]

Military spends $100,000+ to bring back each 'unneeded' MRAP from the Middle East. Then, gives MRAP to US police departments for 'free.'
Do I understand this correctly?

Federal government buys MRAPs from defence industry for a little over $700,000 each.

When they are no longer needed, military pays over $100,000 each to ship MRAP back to states.

Department of Defense then gives 'unneeded' MRAPs to Police Departments for 'free.'

Defense industry makes profits.
Police Department gets 'free' armored vehicle...

Citizens pay over $800,000 to buy and transport 'unneeded' MRAPS.

War is a racket. Always has been.

Uno

Uno what would you do with the MRAP? Leave it behind as we leave a country?

 

[Nebor]

Uno what would you do with the MRAP? Leave it behind as we leave a country?

I've seen several huge yards in Afghanistan where all they do is cut them into (still large) pieces.

 

[smackababy]

Military spends $100,000+ to bring back each 'unneeded' MRAP from the Middle East. Then, gives MRAP to US police departments for 'free.'
Do I understand this correctly?

Federal government buys MRAPs from defence industry for a little over $700,000 each.

When they are no longer needed, military pays over $100,000 each to ship MRAP back to states.

Department of Defense then gives 'unneeded' MRAPs to Police Departments for 'free.'

Defense industry gets profits.
Police Department gets 'free' armored vehicle...
Citizens gets bill for over $800,000 to buy and transport 'unneeded' MRAPS.

War is a racket. Always has been.

Uno

Shipping fees? Are they using UPS?

Also, where does it say in the article what unneeded is defined as. Unneeded ANYMORE in Afghanistan? Unneeded in the United States? Unneeded to being with in Afghanistan?

The alternative is destroying hundreds of MRAPs and leaving the scrap.

 

[brycejones]

Shipping fees? Are they using UPS?

Also, where does it say in the article what unneeded is defined as. Unneeded ANYMORE in Afghanistan? Unneeded in the United States? Unneeded to being with in Afghanistan?

The alternative is destroying hundreds of MRAPs and leaving the scrap.

I'm taking unneeded as no longer needed in country. I love how the fiscal conservatives here seem to be more bent on destroying something the taxpayers paid 700K for instead of spending another 100K and finding another use for the equipment.

Although I would hope we could find a less expensive way to ship them home but I'm assuming part of the expense is having to deal with the crappy transportation infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[smackababy]

I'm taking unneeded as no longer needed in country. I love how the fiscal conservatives here seem to be more bent on destroying something the taxpayers paid 700K for instead of spending another 100K and finding another use for the equipment.

Although I would hope we could find a less expensive way to ship them home but I'm assuming part of the expense is having to deal with the crappy transportation infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan.

My favorite thing is the article itself is incredibly misleading. It says "may cost up to $100k" meaning one MRAP, once, cost that much and it is nowhere near the average, because they'd have listed that as well.

The costs are likely associated with having to get them, under some kind of guard, to a port and on a boat, I'm sure. Or, flying them out, which would probably cost a lot too.

 

[MongGrel]

There's a Marine Corps Air Station Yuma as well as the Army's Yuma Proving Ground. The Yuma Proving Ground is best known for hosting High Altitude jump school, though a lot of military equipment testing goes on there.

Sorry was late I probably confused Yuma with Miramar.

I used to do travel documentation back in the days for deployments and they would go to Yuma and Miramar, was a mess of diving into paper work and keeping things straight at the time when they went and cross trained in both areas.

Lots of times there were people going all over the place I'd have to justify their paperwork and where they had been, could be a pain when I issued the travel orders at the time was always a bit of counseling on what they should do or you might get gigged for money type of thing.

Hell, half the Pilots in other squadrons would not even file in theirs, they'd come see me to get them taken care of.

I was pretty popular with the Officers doing that kind of thing back in the day, our Headquarters and Maintenance 24 in Kaneohe Bay, HI never left the base, so I had a lot of coneections with Disbursing, MAG, Group Supply NCO's issuing orders at the time.

We did the work and talked to each others, the Officers usually just signed off on shit 99% of the time.

 

[MongGrel]

Bit of a ramble there sorry.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Don't hate on the bayonets. When a swat team executes the perfect bayonet charge to save your hostage ass, you'll be grateful too.

 

[trenchfoot]

So the states get them for free. OK. But what concerns me more is how much it costs to hire/train personnel, operate and maintain those vehicles and other sundry surplus military equipment that get passed out for "free".

Are the states going to get all the free spare/repair parts they're going to need to keep this "free" equipment operating top notch? Are the recipient states going to send the crews that operate and maintain the donated equipment to the schools the military operates to train their own personnel on the federal gov'ts dime too?

Nice to have all of those toys to play with, but I'd sure like to know how much of my tax dollars are going to get sunk into these playthings that help our local police departments "serve and protect" the citizens within their jurisdiction.

 

[unokitty]

Army Times: Tab for trucks Pentagon doesn't need could top $100M

WASHINGTON — The Army and Marine Corps may have wasted more than $100 million returning vehicles from Afghanistan that they don't need over just a one-year period, according to a Government Accountability Office report released Tuesday.

The services could have saved the money by blowing up the trucks or turning them over to allies, the report says...

"This report is a troubling reminder that the Department of Defense has more work do in managing taxpayer dollars," said Sen. Tom Carper, a Delaware Democrat and chairman of the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee... We simply cannot afford this type of waste and ineffectiveness."

...Out of 9,000 vehicles returned by the Army and Marines, 1,034 were unneeded, according to the GAO analysis.

"The flip side of this is when we leave vehicles with our partners we run the risk of those vehicles falling into the wrong hands, as they have in Iraq,"...

The Pentagon's efforts to supply troops in Iraq and Afghanistan has had other major cost overruns. For instance, the Pentagon spent $620 million on late fees for shipping containers it failed to return on time from Iraq and Afghanistan.

$100 million dollars returning unneeded vehicles from Afganistan.
$620 million dollars in late fees on shipping containers.

A hundred million here, six hundred and twenty million there, and pretty soon you're going to be talking about real money.

Lots of lost opportunity here.

Lots of fail.

Uno