Arizona goes after employers hiring illegals.

[maluckey]

Arizona gets tough with two strikes and you're out! Law.

The issue that I see with this is that the authority comes from a broadly written, strong law, and needs to be tempered with common sense and imagination. Obviously the employer isn't an expert with fraud documentation, nor do they have the interviewing skills that an ICE officer has, so "resonable and prudent" attempt by the employer, needs to be the litmus test.

 

[brxndxn]

GOOD.

Illegal immigration needs to be fixed.. and by fixed, I mean.. they need to be kicked out. Make it easy to become a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen. It's stupid that our country makes the effort to educate foreigners and then makes it hard for those educated foreigners to become citizens.. while at the same time, we make it easy for the uneducated illegals to permanently reside here.. using our roads, our hospitals, our schools - stuff that WE pay for.

 

[senseamp]

Good timing. Housing is cooling down, so we no longer need the cheap construction labor, so now we can get tough on illegal immigration.

 

[BoomerD]

Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

 

[Ozoned]

Its to bad they had to pass a law that they probably won't end up enforcing, just because because the feds passed a bunch of laws that they won't enforce either.

Well, at least we can put a bunch more lawers to work. :thumbsup:

 

[maluckey]

Of course now the employers will just hire "off the books" and still do the same thing...

With any law, in order to enforce it effectively you need to make the reward less than the negatives. Ilegals can still get hired off the books, impostors will become more common, and employers will continue to take advantage o the illegals as often as they can.

I still think that it is a step in the right direction.

 

[BoomerD]

The feds need to step up their enforcement on employers who hire illegals. Oddly enough, with the Republicans clammering the loudest for immigration reform, there have been FAR fewer employers fined during the Bush administration than in the previous administrations...almost like SOMEONE called the dogs off...

 

[maluckey]

Oddly enough, with the Republicans clammering the loudest for immigration reform, there have been FAR fewer employers fined during the Bush administration than in the previous administrations...almost like SOMEONE called the dogs off...

Don't get me started on the Bush administrations lack of useful immigration control. This administration likes to talk big about enforcement, then in the same breath offer amnesty.

 

[Ozoned]

This thread has racial undertones and you are a racist.

Heh. Always wanted to be the first one to say that in YAIIT.

 

[maluckey]

This thread has racial undertones and you are a racist.

I also run my Unimog using the fat of baby seals, and often burn styrofoam and old tires to heat my split level 4000 square foot home built in the middle of a Marsh that I had drained to get rid of those pesky birds that were always breeding there, as if it was the only place they ever breed.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
This thread has racial undertones and you are a racist.

Heh. Always wanted to be the first one to say that in YAIIT.

Darn I was gonna raised the race card first...fine I'll pull it out faster next
time. Practice.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

Such work was done before the illegal immigration wave.
Employers will find a way to do it legally when forced to.

It MAY affect consumer costs slightly, but the overall benefit will be that the supply/demand for illegals will drop, and the end net result to the economy should be negligible.

Food cost may go up, but it will not be illegals doing the work. Less $$ will flow out of the country and the extra labor costs will have a chance to recirculate wihtin the local economy.

 

[maluckey]

A large portion of income by illegals leaves the country. A quick check of the internet shows that money sent home from the U.S. is Mexicos second largest source of foreign income....This wealth paid out, does NOT assist the community in which it was given. It sure helps Mexico!! That money SHOULD be in the U.S., assist their families.

Following this logic we can see that the effect of workers leaving would instantly be somewhat reduced by the money staying "in-house". Of course moderniztion would be forced on growers, and that isn't a bad thing because it normally increases productivity. The growers would pass the modernization costs off to the public at first, but markets would eventually return to pre-modernization prices.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: maluckey
A large portion of income by illegals leaves the country. A quick check of the internet shows that money sent home from the U.S. is Mexicos second largest source of foreign income....This wealth paid out, does NOT assist the community in which it was given. It sure helps Mexico!! That money SHOULD be in the U.S., assist their families.

Following this logic we can see that the effect of workers leaving would instantly be somewhat reduced by the money staying "in-house". Of course moderniztion would be forced on growers, and that isn't a bad thing because it normally increases productivity. The growers would pass the modernization costs off to the public at first, but markets would eventually return to pre-modernization prices.

Do you only buy American or are you a hypocrite?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
The feds need to step up their enforcement on employers who hire illegals. Oddly enough, with the Republicans clammering the loudest for immigration reform, there have been FAR fewer employers fined during the Bush administration than in the previous administrations...almost like SOMEONE called the dogs off...

Well, theres this thing called the SAVE Act, Save America through Verification and Enforcement. Its primary sponsor is Freshmen Congressman Heath Shuler(D), and has approx 100 cosponers. It'll be passed sometime early this year.

Some people who wear tinfoil hats don't like it because it creates a federal birth and death database. However it stiffens up penalties, provides for enforcement of the current laws and adds additional 8000 border patrol agents and 3000 ICE agents.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: maluckey
A large portion of income by illegals leaves the country. A quick check of the internet shows that money sent home from the U.S. is Mexicos second largest source of foreign income....This wealth paid out, does NOT assist the community in which it was given. It sure helps Mexico!! That money SHOULD be in the U.S., assist their families.

Following this logic we can see that the effect of workers leaving would instantly be somewhat reduced by the money staying "in-house". Of course moderniztion would be forced on growers, and that isn't a bad thing because it normally increases productivity. The growers would pass the modernization costs off to the public at first, but markets would eventually return to pre-modernization prices.

While the money paid to them goes out of the country. Their work generates IIRC $48billion for the economy...

 

[maluckey]

True enough, so by supporting Mexico, not the U.S., you can break far less than even. Mexico earns far more than 48 billion from the deal. The U.S. shells out waaaaay more than 48 Billion to support the welfare of the illegal burden, so this is a de-facto welfare program for the country of Mexico.

Of course short-term myopia on the part of the illegal hiring employers is the cause of most of it. Gain a dollar and lose your future...not a good deal from my perspective.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Its to bad they had to pass a law that they probably won't end up enforcing, just because because the feds passed a bunch of laws that they won't enforce either.

Well, at least we can put a bunch more lawers to work. :thumbsup:

I live in AZ and I can tell you from the sour taste illegals have left in the mouths of Arizonians, they probably will enforce it. just MHO

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
While the money paid to them goes out of the country. Their work generates IIRC $48billion for the economy...

And Western Union makes millions in fees. It's a win-win! :laugh:

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

Such work was done before the illegal immigration wave.

For the most part, it wasn't. Arizona/California agriculture has always relied on Mexican labor. The housing companies here have always used Mexican labor. It has been part of the business model from day one. In the Southwest there was no "before the invasion". Cheap, exploitable Mexican labor built Arizona and California agriculture and housing. I'm not advocating that it continue but there was no "good old days" when all workers were here legally.

The only reason it has become an issue in Arizona was that the laborer had the gaul to show themselves in public. They are supposed to do the work and remain hidden, like elves.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

Such work was done before the illegal immigration wave.

For the most part, it wasn't. Arizona/California agriculture has always relied on Mexican labor. The housing companies here have always used Mexican labor. It has been part of the business model from day one. In the Southwest there was no "before the invasion". Cheap, exploitable Mexican labor built Arizona and California agriculture and housing. I'm not advocating that it continue but there was no "good old days" when all workers were here legally.

The only reason it has become an issue in Arizona was that the laborer had the gaul to show themselves in public. They are supposed to do the work and remain hidden, like elves.

Your dreaming if you think that's the truth. We have 12 to 20 million illegals in the country.... that's after we gave 3 - 5 million amnesty in the last go around. They are spread out over the entire US, not just the border states. It's time for something to be done becasue I live over 1000 miles from the border and we are overrun with illegals here. Your addiction to cheap labor to clean your pool and do your yard work is hurting people all over the country.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

Such work was done before the illegal immigration wave.

For the most part, it wasn't. Arizona/California agriculture has always relied on Mexican labor. The housing companies here have always used Mexican labor. It has been part of the business model from day one. In the Southwest there was no "before the invasion". Cheap, exploitable Mexican labor built Arizona and California agriculture and housing. I'm not advocating that it continue but there was no "good old days" when all workers were here legally.

The only reason it has become an issue in Arizona was that the laborer had the gaul to show themselves in public. They are supposed to do the work and remain hidden, like elves.

Your dreaming if you think that's the truth. We have 12 to 20 million illegals in the country.... that's after we gave 3 - 5 million amnesty in the last go around. They are spread out over the entire US, not just the border states. It's time for something to be done becasue I live over 1000 miles from the border and we are overrun with illegals here. Your addiction to cheap labor to clean your pool and do your yard work is hurting people all over the country.

The 12-20 million figure, funny how goes up a million a month, was pulled out of someone's ass. I live in a border city and no way are 1:20 people I meet everyday here illegally. It is true that illegal migrant labor has spread into other areas of the country, because the folks living in those areas are willing to hire them (community standards FTW). However, for the southwest, they've always been here, it isn't new.

What is new is that last year folks held marches. They came out of the closest and that pissed people off. How dare our illegal workers show themselves in public! This isn't a race issue, it is class warfare. We had a great thing going with exploitable labor and now that the labor's gotten uppidy, we want them gone, or at least ground under the heal of DHS so they stop being uppidy.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: brxndxnIt's stupid that our country makes the effort to educate foreigners and then makes it hard for those educated foreigners to become citizens.. while at the same time, we make it easy for the uneducated illegals to permanently reside here.. using our roads, our hospitals, our schools - stuff that WE pay for.

It's stupid that we continue to host a horde of foreign grad students while Americans end up unemployed or severely underemployed. Instead those positions should be filled by full-time research scientists or by Americans.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?

The free market will sort that out. It's amazing how many self-proclaimed advocates of free market economics oppose having a self-contained American free market economy. What the F are they afraid of? After all, according to the theory the nation should prosper as long as it has a free market economy even if the nation doesn't have a massive oversupply of impoverished labor.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Sense...but who will pick the lettuce and slaughter the pigs?


it's about dammed time someone did something about the invasion from down south...Personally, I expect this to be found unconstitutional or illegal (states rights vs. federal rights) or some such bullshit, but I hope not.

Such work was done before the illegal immigration wave.

For the most part, it wasn't. Arizona/California agriculture has always relied on Mexican labor. The housing companies here have always used Mexican labor. It has been part of the business model from day one. In the Southwest there was no "before the invasion". Cheap, exploitable Mexican labor built Arizona and California agriculture and housing. I'm not advocating that it continue but there was no "good old days" when all workers were here legally.

The only reason it has become an issue in Arizona was that the laborer had the gaul to show themselves in public. They are supposed to do the work and remain hidden, like elves.

Your dreaming if you think that's the truth. We have 12 to 20 million illegals in the country.... that's after we gave 3 - 5 million amnesty in the last go around. They are spread out over the entire US, not just the border states. It's time for something to be done becasue I live over 1000 miles from the border and we are overrun with illegals here. Your addiction to cheap labor to clean your pool and do your yard work is hurting people all over the country.

The 12-20 million figure, funny how goes up a million a month, was pulled out of someone's ass. I live in a border city and no way are 1:20 people I meet everyday here illegally. It is true that illegal migrant labor has spread into other areas of the country, because the folks living in those areas are willing to hire them (community standards FTW). However, for the southwest, they've always been here, it isn't new.

What is new is that last year folks held marches. They came out of the closest and that pissed people off. How dare our illegal workers show themselves in public! This isn't a race issue, it is class warfare. We had a great thing going with exploitable labor and now that the labor's gotten uppidy, we want them gone, or at least ground under the heal of DHS so they stop being uppidy.

In other words your standards for immigrants is that you only want exploitable cheap labor.

I want what's best for the country. I have no qualms with bringing in 20 million immigrants.... legally. The difference is I want to get the cream of the crop and that means we get as many of the educated and professionals first. The fact is they will do this country more good then uneducated immigrants who can't even read or write English, let alone speak it