Arizona creates legal defense fund

[UberNeuman]

The implicit message was quite clear: Those that support the law are fools, guilty of shameful propaganda.

No, just unwilling to tackle the problem at the source....

 

[cwjerome]

No, just unwilling to tackle the problem at the source....

The "source?" You mean you want to tackle Mexico's screwed up system and poverty?

 

[Double Trouble]

No, just unwilling to tackle the problem at the source....

Actually, I think most people would be happy to "tackle the problem at the source", but people just don't have the clout to make it happen.

On most issues, one side or the other is pushing for one fix, while the other is opposed. Illegal immigration is a weird issue: the corporations with a lot of clout are on the same side as the lefty loonies that want more illegals for a variety of reasons. That unholy union basically means the general public doesn't get any voice in the process and nobody (dems or repubs) represents their interests. That deadlock is not going to get broken anytime soon, so AZ did what it had to do to tackle the problem.

 

[UberNeuman]

The "source?" You mean you want to tackle Mexico's screwed up system and poverty?

Mexico isn't the the problem - it's the people in your state and other states that keep providing work....

 

[Hacp]

Mexico isn't the the problem - it's the people in your state and other states that keep providing work....

Mexico is the problem. Their poorest workers come here to steak US jobs meant for American citizens and legal immigrants. 10% unemployment right now. If we fired all the illegals and put the 10% to work, America wouldn't be in a recession.

 

[cwjerome]

Mexico isn't the the problem - it's the people in your state and other states that keep providing work....

Mexico is one big fucked up problem, and if it wasn't such a problem so many people wouldn't be trying to leave.

Of course my comment was meant to just make a point... that what you consider the "source" isn't the source at all, but rather just one dimension in a multifaceted issue. Looking at Arizona's law, it does increase the penalties for hiring illegals and even goes after people who pick up day laborers outside of Home Depot. What would you have... class 1 felony, 1 year in jail and $500,000 fine for hiring an illegal alien?

 

[Double Trouble]

Mexico isn't the the problem - it's the people in your state and other states that keep providing work....

Mexico IS the core of the problem. If the country wasn't such a craphole, half the population wouldn't be desperate to get out and jump across some border to get to another country to get a better life.

I don't blame the people for doing whatever they can to try to get a better life.....

Blaming the employers doesn't make sense. Punishing them might be a good way to combat illegal immigration, but blaming employers for the illegal immigration issue is dumb. It's not like companies are handing out $100k per year cushy jobs to the illegals, they are giving them tough jobs for low pay. Unfortunately Mexico is such a shithole that even those jobs are more attractive to the Mexicans than what they face back home.

 

[Kappo]

Step 1 : big fines for anyone caught hiring illegals
Step 2 : jail time for providing US services to illegals
Step 3 : provide amnesty for anyone who can make a bean tamale really well
Step 4 : eat tamales and get rid of criminals

 

[RedCOMET]

Quote:

So just because you don't agree with it, then it must be the first random thing somebody thought.

Right. The immigration issue and SB1070 just popped out of someone's ass out of the blue.

It looks to me like waiting around for "good ideas" from the federal government hasn't served Arizona well these last 10-20 years.

No...I'm objecting to the idea that it's good that Arizona did "something". Personally I'd hold off applause until people do something smart, or useful.

But since you bring it up, no, I don't think their idea is a very good one. And whether or not they thought it up after a night staying up drinking, it certainly looks that way to me.

Rainsford, perhaps this is a better way to augment our patrolling of the borders. It appears to a be a useful endeavor, but is it smart?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project

 

[Red Dawn]

Blaming the employers doesn't make sense. Punishing them might be a good way to combat illegal immigration, but blaming employers for the illegal immigration issue is dumb. It's not like companies are handing out $100k per year cushy jobs to the illegals, they are giving them tough jobs for low pay. Unfortunately Mexico is such a shithole that even those jobs are more attractive to the Mexicans than what they face back home.

Eliminate those jobs and they'll have no reason to be here. Of course those Employers are the problem and should be heavily fined and all monies made from the use of illegals should be forfeited.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Its looking for private donations from people willing to defend our liberty.

Because The Arizona Legal Fund generates 100% positive cash flow with no overhead?

It's a Free (to them, anyway) Tax on Wing Nut America with a much better pay-back, than say, the state lottery.

The cash also provides a sinking fund of sorts for all current and future 'obligations'.




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[Exterous]

Blaming the employers doesn't make sense. Punishing them might be a good way to combat illegal immigration, but blaming employers for the illegal immigration issue is dumb. It's not like companies are handing out $100k per year cushy jobs to the illegals, they are giving them tough jobs for low pay. Unfortunately Mexico is such a shithole that even those jobs are more attractive to the Mexicans than what they face back home.

But even offering the job contributes to the problem. If illegals come here - can't find work, healthcare, welfare, education then word gets back that life for them isn't good here either and many stop coming.

If the view is that the standard of living here as an illegal alien is better than living as a legal citizen of their country then they will come here and ANYTHING that contributes to this view is to blame. This includes Mexico's economy, our economy, jobs for illegals here and jobs for legals in mexico etc

 

[Thump553]

I particularly love the portion of that law that permits ordinary citizens to sue the police over their enforcement or nonenforcement of this law. Obviously something designed to entice teabagger activist groups, this provision is almost completely unique among the laws of any state. Frankly, it is a lawyer full employment provision for activists, pure and simple. OTOH, it grossly inflates the local government's expenses in defending such suits-suits that wouldn't otherwise be allowed to be brought but for that provision.

Summary: this law designed to inflate and bust the budgets of local governments in AZ.

Better be sure to send them plenty of money, and keep it coming forever. On behalf of the vacation home payments of my brethen, I thank you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Want to fight illegal immigration? Put your money where your mouth is.

No amount of money will win them the right of secession. What Arizona needs are armed men to stand with it.

 

[Rangoric]

Bull fucking shit. What part of this law will harm LEGAL immigrants? Arizona's law, which isn't even in effect yet, is driving illegal immigrants away to other states or back. It ONLY HARMS ILLEGALS!

You're letting your braindead PC side of your brain influence your normally astute logic. Don't support it, then don't donate. Let the rest of us freemen take care of things while you worry about protecting criminals.

They are in need of donations for a legal defense fund.

What if they don't get the donations they need? Do they magically just not need it? Or are they trying to avoid having the taxpayer pay for it?

Still think it's bullshit since "kicking the illegals out would be cheaper then keeping em there". Obviously the money saved should be used for this.

 

[NoStateofMind]

No amount of money will win them the right of secession. What Arizona needs are armed men to stand with it.

No bullshit here. The challenge that AZ (and California for that matter) has given to the Federal Government will eventually come to a head. The true question is: Can they stand their ground when push comes to shove? We shall see.

 

[Patranus]

What I don't understand is how can anyone argue that the laws are not uniform for legally immigrating to the united states if the AZ law is allowed to stand.

 

[Siddhartha]

I don't understand the inability of people to separate a goal from the means used to reach that goal. Calling something a "tough new crackdown on illegal immigration" means absolutely nothing if the way you're "cracking down" is illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid. You don't have to be pro-illegal immigration to oppose Arizona's law and the thinking behind it.

For my part, I think it's mostly lazy arguing that leads to threads like this. The idea that goals can be the same while methods can differ is a fundamental part of human discussion. But accusing someone of not sharing your goals is easier than defending your approach, isn't it?

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