Argument over faiths probed in killing of 4

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
This story broke in yesterday's Star-Ledger. A Jersey City Coptic Christian family of four found bound with their throats cut. The original story told of veteran police officers being shaken by the scene.


I hope the mods all read this. ;)


Argument over faiths probed in killing of 4

Jersey City man received chat-room death threat

Sunday, January 16, 2005
BY MIKE FRASSINELLI AND MARK MUELLER
Star-Ledger Staff

Authorities are exploring whether a religious argument in an Internet chat room led to the slaughter of a Coptic Christian couple and their two daughters in their Jersey City home, relatives of the slain family said yesterday.

One of the victims, 47-year-old Hossam Armanious, spent some of his spare time in chat rooms devoted to the Egyptian religious sect, at times proselytizing and at times writing about persecution of Coptic Christians by Muslims, family friends said.

Armanious' hobby took a dark turn about two months ago, friends said, when he was threatened after writing comments deemed an insult to Islam by another person logged in to a chat site.

"Some Muslim guys said if you don't stop this, we're going to come out and kill you," said a family friend, who requested anonymity, citing fears for his safety.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory would not comment on the possibility that the slayings were a bias crime.

"We are continuing the investigation, making inquiries on several theories, and will not comment further," Gregory said.

The friend said Armanious told him about the threat but did not seem especially worried about it. Those logged into the chat rooms frequented by Armanious are identified only by nicknames, providing a measure of anonymity.

Investigators, however, remain interested in the lead.

An uncle of Armanious' wife, Amal Garas, said yesterday that detectives told him they were pursuing the chat room argument as a possible motive for the slayings. The uncle, Milad Garas, was one of many family members interviewed by police Friday.

"One detective said this was his theory," the uncle said.

The FBI is assisting in the case, but a spokesman for the agency called the federal involvement a routine matter.

"It's nothing out of the ordinary for us to be there, especially given the gravity of the crime," said the spokesman, Special Agent Steve Siegel. "This was a horrible crime, and any time a law enforcement officer sees something like that, they're going to want to lend a hand."

The bodies of Armanious, Amal Garas, 37, and the couple's two children, 15-year-old Sylvia and 8-year-old Monica, were discovered early Friday, when worried relatives led police to their home in the Heights section of Jersey City.

The victims, who immigrated to the United States from Luxor, Egypt, in 1997, had been bound and gagged, their throats slashed. Police, noting no sign of forced entry, said Friday the victims most likely knew their killers.

Outside the home yesterday, friends of the slain family left personal notes and tokens of friendship: a purple stuffed dog, a SpongeBob SquarePants doll, a basket of artificial lilies and pansies.

A dozen teenagers, friends of Sylvia Armanious, clung to one another and cried after leaving candles on the sidewalk.

Not far away, at the family's parish, St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church, relatives gathered for six hours, sharing in memories and grief.

Ayman Garas, a brother of Amal Garas, said family members remain confused and devastated. His mother, Garas said, has been unable to sleep since the grisly discovery, her every moment haunted.

"She felt like four spirits were going around her all night yelling, 'Help, help,'" Ayman Garas said. "Up to this moment, it's a like a dream."

The attack has hit equally hard in the tight-knit Coptic community. Yesterday, the Coptic Business Association of Jersey City offered a $500,000 reward for information leading to an arrest.

"Christian blood is not cheap," said the group's president, Adel Agib. "We want to know who killed them. We want to catch them."

While authorities maintain that no motive has been ruled out, news of the Internet threat against Armanious spread quickly among Copts, who seized on the theory that religious hatred played a role.

"This was a terrorist attack," said Amgad Zakhari, 32, a real estate investor who has known the Armanious family since their arrival in the United States. "It was to make an example of Egyptian Christians, to silence them. It has to be a religious motivation."

Other friends and family members said the manner of the killings suggested the same to them.

"The way they did this tragedy is not a normal thing," said Milad Garas, the uncle of Amal Garas. "Nobody does this for a robbery."

Fred Ayad, a deacon at St. George, performed last rites on the victims. The savagery of the attack, with the family members suffering multiple stab and slash wounds, showed hatred, he said.

But Ayad said he hoped the rumors swarming through the community did not roil Coptic-Muslim relations, a point repeated by the bishop who represents the Coptic community in the Northeast.

"We cannot at this point make speculations," said Bishop David, who uses only one name. "It is the job of the police who protect us and keep us safe to tell us who has done that, and bring them to court and bring them to justice."

Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union, a New Jersey group, also expressed worry that speculation about the killings would increase friction between the two groups.

"I don't like it when somebody is jumping to conclusions before the police find anything," Younes said. "In this case, you don't know who's behind this or why they'd want to do this."

Relations between Muslims and Coptic Christians have historically been tense. Copts are a minority in Muslim-dominated Egypt, and Coptic Web sites contain numerous accounts of persecution at the hands of the government and the nation's residents.

In Jersey City, the heart of New Jersey's Coptic community, Copts and Muslims share an uneasy peace, residents say.

Armanious, a banquet waiter known as a very devout man, did not intentionally slight Muslims when he visited Internet chat rooms, friends said.

"He was trying to tell people about Christianity," Zakhari said. "He was a good Christian. He was trying to use the Internet to help the community. He was trying to give the Christian word."

Armanious was so involved in the Internet talks that he became an administrator in one of the chat rooms, reached through an instant-messaging portal (www.paltalk.com).

The friend, who recounted the threat against Armanious and who requested anonymity, said the slain man had been engaged in the hobby for about five years. The altercation that unfolded two months ago started when another user of the site took offense to Armanious' comments about Islam, telling him to "shut up."

"I can say whatever I want," the friend said Armanious responded. "I live in America."

It was then that the other person threatened to come after Armanious, the friend said.

A funeral Mass for the family is scheduled for 10:30 a.m. tomorrow at St. George.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
This story has shaken the entire community and surrounding area. The initial report told of one of the girls locking herself in the bathroom in an attempt to escape these cowardly, barbaric assassins.

The police know she did because they found evidence she had been in the bathroom -- and the bathroom door bad been broken down.

FBI involvement. Good. Making terroristic threats against people is a crime under federal jurisdiction.

It seems the FBI will be taking threats made on internet chat rooms (as well as message boards and forums I would imagine) more seriously. Would that others would as well. :roll:

No matter to me. I haven't threatened anyone.

I'm certain everyone here can't say the same.

The original story is not at Star-Leder's online site any longer. Here is the original story from the NY Times.

Parents and 2 Daughters Found Slain at Home in Jersey City


Parents and 2 Daughters Found Slain at Home in Jersey City
By JOHN HOLL

Published: January 15, 2005

JERSEY CITY, Jan. 14 - It had been more than two days since the Armanious family of Oakland Avenue had been seen or heard from. So early on Friday, Jersey City police officers, acting on a request from relatives, broke down the door to their house and made a gruesome discovery: someone had slit the throats of the couple and their two children, leaving the bodies bound and gagged throughout the two-story house.

The Hudson County prosecutor's office identified those killed as Hossam Armanious, 46; his wife, Amal Garas, 36; and their daughters, Sylvia, 16, and Monica, 8.

An officer said that investigators were looking into the possibility that there had been a dispute between the family and a former tenant. The authorities said that there was no sign of a forced entry and that it was likely that the Armanious family knew their killer or killers.

Prosecutors refused to comment on a motive or possible suspects, saying the investigation was continuing.

"We have four people that are dead, and whoever did this is subject to very severe punishment. And we hope they are captured and believe they will be," Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy said.

Ms. Garas's brother, Ayman Garas, said he contacted the Jersey City Police Department early Friday after he had not heard from his sister in several days. He said he went to the two-story olive green wood-frame home around midnight, and when no one answered and he was unable to make his way through a front porch window because of security bars, he contacted officers. They broke down the door around 4 a.m.

"I didn't expect they would be killed," Mr. Garas said. "My sister, to get killed, my sister and everyone, I just can't believe it."

Officials believe the family was killed on Tuesday night since neither Mr. Armanious, who worked in Princeton, nor his wife, who worked for the United States Postal Service in Kearney, showed up for work on Wednesday or Thursday.

"She was very kind person," Mr. Garas said of his sister. "From her church to her home to her job, that's all she knows. I just can't believe it happened to her. She had no problem with nobody."

On Friday afternoon, as investigators took photographs of the house still decorated for Christmas with lights, red bows and garlands, several of Sylvia's classmates gathered outside in the rain and spoke of their friend. They recalled Sylvia, a 10th grader, as a dedicated student who was involved in many extracurricular activities at Dickinson High School and was always eager to speak her mind.

"She was a person who was really going to do something with her life," said a friend who asked not to be identified.

Jersey City school officials said that grief counselors were on hand at the high school and at J. W. Wakeman School No. 6, where Monica was a third grader.

Richard V. Messano, Wakeman's principal, described Monica as a "bubbly and always happy girl" who had a perfect attendance record, was part of the gifted and talented program and was "a joy to have in class."

Other school officials echoed his comments.

"They were both fantastic students," said Dr. Sharon Bartley, a spokeswoman for the Jersey City Public Schools. "They were bright and outgoing, interested in performing arts, and this is just an awful event that has all of our students, parents and faculty so sad and upset. It is a true loss for the schools."

The family, devout members of the Coptic Orthodox Church, had celebrated Little Christmas, or the Feast of the Three Kings, last Friday and was planning to celebrate Sylvia's 16th birthday on Saturday.

The family had immigrated from Egypt about 10 years ago in hopes of building a better life, said Fred Ayad, a deacon at St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church, where the Armanious family worshiped regularly.

"They attended church every Sunday," he said. "They were all very nice, very quiet, very good. This is so awful."

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
More from the NY Post...

FAMILY OF 4 SLAUGHTERED

By LORENA MONGELLI, JEANE MacINTOSH and TODD VENEZIA

January 15, 2005 -- BLOODBATH:Investigators remove the bodies of the Armanious family from their Jersey City home yesterday as an uncle, Ayman Garas, weeps at the scene (inset). Michael DaltonLEAP OF FAITH:Amal Garas and her husband, Hossam Armanious ? in a family photo with their daughters, Monica (left) and Sylvia ? had moved to Jersey City after fleeing religious persecution in Egypt. A family of Christians who fled persecution in Egypt ran into a bloody nightmare in Jersey City ? where the husband, wife and their two daughters were found knifed to death in their home yesterday, authorities said.

The bodies of Hossam Armanious, 46, his wife, Amal Garas, 36, and their two young daughters ? Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8 ? were found gagged with their throats slit at 4 a.m. yesterday inside the green, two-story, wood-frame home they had moved into five years ago.

Investigators were struggling to figure out who could have slaughtered the religiously devout family ? and why.

Jersey City Police Chief Robert Troy said police are leaning toward the suspect being at least an acquaintance, after finding no sign of a break-in.

"I don't believe it was random," he said. "They probably knew their killers."

The bloody scene of horror was discovered after relatives who had not seen Armanious and his wife for days grew worried and went to police.

Garas' brother, Ayman, led cops up to the entrance of the two-family Oakland Avenue home, which the family bought in 2000 for $95,000.

He gave cops permission to break open the door, which they did. A heinous scene was revealed in which the husband, wife and two girls were found slaughtered in separate rooms, Ayman said.

Family members who had identified the loved ones' bodies said their faces were contorted in a way that indicated they put up a fierce struggle.

Police said they believe the family was killed between 36 and 46 hours before their bodies were found. The last time that anyone had seen any of them was when one of the children was spotted at school Tuesday, cops said.

"It's a terrible, terrible crime scene," Chief Troy said.

"This hearkens back to 40 years ago, 'In Cold Blood,' " said Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy, referring to the 1959 slaying of four members of a Kansas family, which led to an acclaimed book and movie of the same name.

The loss left Ayman Garas stunned.

"We're a close family," he told reporters. "It's very sad, I never expected my sister was going to be killed ? and her husband and her kids."

Armanious and his wife came from Luxor, Egypt, in 1995, pals said.

Relatives said he came here looking for a good job and a good place to raise his then-only daughter.

"They took risks getting here looking for a better life," said Emile Garas, 60, an uncle of Amal.

Rafique Iscandar, 51, who described himself as Armanious' best friend, said his pal also came because of the pressure of being Christian in Muslim Egypt.

Armanious saw extremism growing in Luxor, Iscandar said, even in the days before the terrible 1997 massacre of tourists at the ancient temple there, which killed 58.

"They were afraid there," Iscandar said. "They are under siege by the government. We lived in fear."

After the family moved to the United States, Armanious got a job working in a convenience store owned by Iscandar.

But Armanious had other dreams.

With a degree from a Luxor University in hotel management, he got a job as a catering manager at a Marriott, Iscandar said.

Things started looking up for the family. They had a second daughter. Garas got a job with the U.S. Postal Service in Kearny, N.J. They bought the two-family home, which provided an opportunity for extra income from an upstairs apartment they could rent.

Iscandar said Armanious even joined with him in an effort to better the lives of his fellow Christians back in Luxor by working with a human-rights organization called the American Coptic Union.

They also were devout, churchgoing people who attended services at St. George and St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church.

"This is a shock," said Father Sorial Sorial, the pastor there. "I can't understand how evil can go to that extent."

The family had recently hit hard times, however. Armanious lost his hotel job about six months ago and tried to support his family with construction work. They were also the victims of a recent burglary, which left them frightened.

"After that they were very scared," Iscandar said. "They reinforced all their doors and windows."

Police said they were pursing "three avenues" of inquiry in the case. They would not give details, but Chief Troy told The Post, "There was a family living [at the family's home] previously that is being investigated."

Troy would not say if anyone was living in the rental apartment, but he said that police did not consider any possible ten ant there a suspect.

News of the death hit the family's neighborhood in Jersey City hard.

"I feel very, very bad," said Mohammed Riaz Khan, who lives across the street from the victims. "They were a nice family."

The family members had been with their extended clan most recently on Jan. 7, which was the Coptic Christmas celebration. Michael Fahmy, a family member said the clan planned to come together again today ? for Sylvia's Sweet 16 birthday party.

"It was supposed to be a big party," he said. "We reserved a big hall. We had to cancel everything today."

Brendon Echardt, 14, was a friend to Sylvia, a popular teen who loved acting.

He said news of her death came to an acting class she took at New Jersey City University via a text message received by one of her best friends. He said the news left classmates in tears.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
This is one reason I don't give my information out online. There are some very angry, overly-inquisitive people out there.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
This is one reason I don't give my information out online. There are some very angry, overly-inquisitive people out there.

There are even a few right here, Infohawk. ;)

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: alchemize
I wonder what CAIR's comment will be on this...

CAIR?

Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Remeber the hooting and gnashing of teeth on the "24" episode?

They have an extensive history - essentially the Goebbels of fundamental islam.
Link
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: alchemize
I wonder what CAIR's comment will be on this...

CAIR?

Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Remeber the hooting and gnashing of teeth on the "24" episode?

They have an extensive history - essentially the Goebbels of fundamental islam.
Link

CAIR isn't the only Goebbels inspired entity on the internet...

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
A CALL FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE

Tuesday, January 18, 2005
BY JOE MALINCONICO
Star-Ledger Staff

In a service raw with grief and anger, more than 1,000 mourners attended the funeral yesterday for a Jersey City family whose unsolved murder has stoked religious animosities that go back for centuries.

As women wailed and men chanted prayers, pall bearers hoisted the four caskets above their heads on a slow, four-block procession from Journal Square to the church.

Along the way, the crowd kept growing in numbers, from dozens to hundreds to well more than 1,000, as well as in intensity. Several scuffles disrupted the procession and subsequent church service for the immigrant Egyptian family who friends say was known for its peaceful ways.

Tensions were heightened by the fact that the killers -- who bound, gagged and stabbed the victims in their throats -- remained at large, their motives unknown.

Some members of the region's Coptic Christian community believe religious fanatics were responsible for the killings of Hossam Armanious, 47, his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and their two children, Sylvia, 15 and Monica, 8. in their Oakland Avenue home last week.

But Hudson County authorities say they are looking at robbery as one of several possible motives, partly because Armanious' wallet was found empty and his pants pockets turned inside out. No money was found in the home, authorities have said.

"Many feel unsafe and insecure, while others have doubts and questions going on in their minds," said Bishop David, who represents the Coptic community in the Northeast, during the funeral service at St. George and St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church in Jersey City.

"The blood of the innocent martyrs is crying out for justice," said Bishop David, who uses one name according to Coptic custom. "We put all our trust in God and the authorities who are presently working very hard to capture the perpetrators and bring them to justice."

Dozens of police officers tried to keep order during the funeral, confiscating anti-Muslim signs from agitators at the procession. Several times, police pulled unruly mourners off to the side or took them away in squad cars to defuse tensions. Still, scuffles and shouting marred the service.

A Muslim cleric who attended at the welcome of Coptic leaders had to be escorted from the church by a phalanx of officers because authorities were concerned for his safety.

"It's sad to see this," said Peter Andrawis, a member of the Coptic church. "We don't want to make it 'us' and 'them.'"

Several mourners said the turbulent scene was typical of services in the Middle East.

"We have not had a funeral like this in this country," said Joe Zift of Jersey City.

Crammed shoulder to shoulder, mourners packed a makeshift church far in excess of what seemed safe. The service was held in a building that once housed the Social Security Administration offices in Jersey City, but it is now owned by the Coptic parish, which is in the process of converting it to a church.

Among the speakers at the service was newly elected Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy, who asked for God's help in finding the killers. In response, a woman sitting near the victims' family called out a challenge to the mayor.

"You promise us you will find these people?" the woman shrieked. "You will find these people?"

That prompted a few people in the crowd to make anti-Islamic comments. Briefly, things became tumultuous. Then, Garas' brother, Ayman, stepped forward and called for quiet. The crowd heeded him.

The four bronze-colored caskets were adorned with flowers and pictures of the deceased.

Armanious had been a waiter who spent some time in Internet chat rooms devoted to Coptic Christianity, an Egyptian religious sect. Family friends say he received death threats two months ago after posting comments that someone thought were insulting to Muslims.

His wife worked as a postal clerk and his youngest daughter was in third grade. Their oldest daughter, whose poems were quoted during yesterday's service, was a high school student who studied the Bible and wanted to become a doctor.

The family came to the United States from Egypt in 1997.

The murders have city, state and federal law enforcement investigators scrambling.

A law enforcement official close to the case said the crime did not show the signs of a typical robbery. There was no sign of forced entry at the home and neighbors upstairs heard no commotion during what appeared to be an unusually violent killing, the official said.

The FBI has sent agents from its violent crime task force to assist in the investigation. Despite rumors swirling about motives ranging from terrorism to an Internet spat, the agents have reached no conclusions or prevailing theories, a spokesman said.

"The only thing we're pursuing right now is that we're actively pursuing this as a police cooperation matter," said Special Agent Stephen Kodak, a spokesman for the FBI's Newark division.

Though local police and prosecutors continue to run the investigation, the FBI could enlist its lab or a behavioral science specialist to help analyze evidence. The bureau did the same after the murder of four people in Newark last fall.

The FBI also has the resources and contacts to chase the case anywhere, if, for instance, clues lead back to the family's homeland.

"We have no direct evidence of (bias)," Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said. "The only thing we know is that there was definitely money taken -- his wallet was empty, and there was no money found on any of the people or in the house. That's fact, but beyond that we really do not have any other information as to motive."

WABC News has reported on its Web site "that the slain family's cousin has been a translator working for the prosecution in the trial of Lynne Stewart. She is the radical lawyer accused of smuggling messages from imprisoned Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman to terrorist cell members and associates."

A state law enforcement official yesterday said the connection between the translator and the family is one of many things being investigated, but that "nothing is being treated as the lead theory" in the case.

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
sadly i'm not surprised. remember a guy in europe was killed for a critical film on islam:p there are far too many mulsims who take their faith way too seriously. course the religion itself doesn't help.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
The people who always demand info from you here are downright creepy.
We all know how it ends when a liberal speaks out against the right enough. *crack of rifle shot*
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
sadly i'm not surprised. remember a guy in europe was killed for a critical film on islam:p there are far too many mulsims who take their faith way too seriously. course the religion itself doesn't help.

People have perverted every belief since people first developed the need for unified religion. One common thread in religion I've observed is the insistence of every religion I know of that theirs is the only true religion. People take that to the next step. If my religion is the only true religion then those other religions are blaspheming liars who need to be dealt with in the eyes of my god.

My god is bigger than their god is, IIRC, the way an American military general put it.

Perhaps there is a component of the Christian religion that takes their religion way too seriously as well. We are, after all, over there blowing up cities from high altitude led by an administration that highlights its born again Christianity :roll: while bearing false witness against its neighbor.

A nation which has its own fanatical religious zealots waging unprovoked aggression shouldn't throw stones. ;)