Are you willing to concede that "the other side" is generally well-intentioned?

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
My problem is with any simpleton who picks any "side" to begin with. I don't care if you're choking on a huge (D) or a big (R) every night of your life -- I despise you equally. Anyone who is simple enough to agree with everything, or even most of what any single party would preach, is a fucking tool. You are the reason our entire country is going shit.

And, you know who you are.

Fucking lemmings.

This is called a 'Pox on Both Your Houses' post, well known, common, and well understood, and which pops up everywhere is forums, in other words, just another in a long line of lemming posts from folk anxious disassociate themselves from criticism while criticizing others just like them, just another manifestation of the need to feel superior by putting down somebody else while pretending to be above it all.

You're funny. Can I sign up for your newsletter?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

No he didn't ask that. He asked what it was that misguides liberals. It's clearly their ideology. You may not like the answer but it's the truth. He did not ask what was wrong with "liberal ideology" you twit - try reading.

You're an idiot, CAD. You are asked how liberals are misguided, and you think that the question isn't about their ideology, so your saying 'their ideology' answers it.

Even after it's explained to you repeatedly.

Why don't you list all the ways that a political group is "misguided" that are not related to their ideology. We'll wait.

And then you call names. You're an idiot.

lol, at you morons. The flow of the conversation is as I described. I answered with ideology to the question posed. I'm sorry you twits can't follow along. You can continue to whine all you want but what I stated was correct and in no way circular like you seem to claim. Next time I suggest you pay attention to what I post and what it is in response to.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

M: Did you really think I could post that without recognizing and looking at how it applies to me?

DSF: Yes.

M: Then you would be wrong. I was fully aware that I was putting him in a category just as he had done and that doing so makes it look like I think myself above him, just as he was implying he had a superior view. Note that he was not only making an observation, but putting down the people he spoke of.

DSF: So tell me?at the end of the day, how are you any different?
-------

M: I don't believe you can see or understand anything about anybody else you haven't first been educated on because it's who you are, yourself. The difference is in the willingness to see and admit that, no?

DSF: A blind man is willing to see?no?

M: Perhaps you are unaware that most emotional blindness is motivated.

DSF: Perhaps I'm more aware than you give me credit for?so exactly what motivated you to make your post?
----------

DSF: Zen allusions aside...I found your post ironic in regard to criticizing others while pretending to be above it all.

M: As I said, you can't point out how somebody else pretends to be above it all without recognizing, I should hope, that by doing so you are placing yourself in the same shoes they are in. In my case, however, I am aware that is what I am doing just as I am thereby aware that that was what he did.

DSF: Since all things being otherwise equal?are you saying that your self awareness is the only differential? So tell me again?what exactly motivated you to make your post?
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DSF: Self awareness is one thing?but please tell me on what basis you conclude that someone else is 'pretending' to feel a certain way?

M: We are all the same. When you know who you are you will know everything. Mainly, you will know that whereas you thought you knew everything, you actually know nothing at all. In that way, you will know that those who think they know something are pretending.

DSF: Totally disagree?the more you know...the more you become aware of the depth of your abject ignorance.
-------

Back on topic?many political 'lemmings' fail in that they closely tie their sense of identity and self-worth to a political ideology?.letting partisan politics transcend matters of principles and values. But, IMO...regardless of political persuasion?most all have good intentions for humanity?and really only differ on the particular means to get to that end?and therein lies the rub. The poll results are interesting as I previously noted?.right now about 45% of the Right leaning believe that that Left mean well...while only 17% of the Left leaning believe that that Right means well. That's quite a difference. I'm curious...why such a huge difference?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Interesting poll. Personally I think most people are well intentioned regardless of their political persuasion. What's telling here is that one side recognizes this reality and the other doesn't. Go figure.

Actually tree swinger, anyone who thinks polls in this forum reflect reality has a problem recognizing reality.

I was speaking loosely. LOL at 'tree swinger'...so you like to call people names...now let me call you one...'juvenile'. Now we're even.

Monkey see Monkey do.:laugh:

Woah dude. You'd better hope Doc Savage isn't black.

Let's see, the odds of a wingnut being black are about 10,000 to 1 so I guess I'm pretty safe. Besides my comment had nothing to do with his race, it was more about him regurgitating the nonsense he heard from other tree swingers aka Monkey see Monkey do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

No he didn't ask that. He asked what it was that misguides liberals. It's clearly their ideology. You may not like the answer but it's the truth. He did not ask what was wrong with "liberal ideology" you twit - try reading.

You're an idiot, CAD. You are asked how liberals are misguided, and you think that the question isn't about their ideology, so your saying 'their ideology' answers it.

Even after it's explained to you repeatedly.

Why don't you list all the ways that a political group is "misguided" that are not related to their ideology. We'll wait.

And then you call names. You're an idiot.

lol, at you morons. The flow of the conversation is as I described. I answered with ideology to the question posed. I'm sorry you twits can't follow along. You can continue to whine all you want but what I stated was correct and in no way circular like you seem to claim. Next time I suggest you pay attention to what I post and what it is in response to.

No, I asked you to explain more about your original answer and you went on about how it was sufficient and THE answer even though I told you why I could make no sense of it. I wanted to know how ideology could answer a question when the two sides have so much ideology in common. The answer can't be just plain ideology when the ideologies are similar in so many ways. It's just simple logic but as I said, you made a decision to stick with what you said no matter how ridiculous it makes you look in the eyes of others. You are a classic block head and from a block head I expect block head behavior. That is why, as I said, you will go on about how you were right till the end of time. It's what block heads do.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

No he didn't ask that. He asked what it was that misguides liberals. It's clearly their ideology. You may not like the answer but it's the truth. He did not ask what was wrong with "liberal ideology" you twit - try reading.

You're an idiot, CAD. You are asked how liberals are misguided, and you think that the question isn't about their ideology, so your saying 'their ideology' answers it.

Even after it's explained to you repeatedly.

Why don't you list all the ways that a political group is "misguided" that are not related to their ideology. We'll wait.

And then you call names. You're an idiot.

lol, at you morons. The flow of the conversation is as I described. I answered with ideology to the question posed. I'm sorry you twits can't follow along. You can continue to whine all you want but what I stated was correct and in no way circular like you seem to claim. Next time I suggest you pay attention to what I post and what it is in response to.

No, I asked you to explain more about your original answer and you went on about how it was sufficient and THE answer even though I told you why I could make no sense of it. I wanted to know how ideology could answer a question when the two sides have so much ideology in common. The answer can't be just plain ideology when the ideologies are similar in so many ways. It's just simple logic but as I said, you made a decision to stick with what you said no matter how ridiculous it makes you look in the eyes of others. You are a classic block head and from a block head I expect block head behavior. That is why, as I said, you will go on about how you were right till the end of time. It's what block heads do.

Psstt - no I didn't.

This was the original string:

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Ah, if only "intentions" translated into "results". "intentions" might make you feel good but it's the results that matter.

And sure, for the most part, I think liberals are well intentioned - just very misguided.

Perhaps, since you seem to imply you can see how liberals are misguided, you could identify for us what it is that guides them incorrectly. What is misguiding liberals?

Their ideology. duh. They may intend for it do good but actual results show just how misguided they were.

THAT is the only post I replied to of yous in this thread(and now this one as well). So I answered your question and the rest of the time I've been explaining to Craig that he was wrong about claiming that I didn't answer your question posed above - you know - the one I responded to.

So again, try reading and keeping up.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
M: Did you really think I could post that without recognizing and looking at how it applies to me?

DSF: Yes.

M: Then you would be wrong. I was fully aware that I was putting him in a category just as he had done and that doing so makes it look like I think myself above him, just as he was implying he had a superior view. Note that he was not only making an observation, but putting down the people he spoke of.

DSF: So tell me?at the end of the day, how are you any different?

In step one he criticized other people for being tools of ideological belief. In step two, I explained to him that he's criticism is a well rehearsed ideology we see all the time and that he is equally a tool. In step three you asked me if I am any different. In step four I explained that I am different in that I am aware I am the same. In step 5 you now ask if at the end of the day I am any different. Ask yourself if you think I showed TSF he is the same tool he criticized so I could be the same kind of tool myself, or because I wanted to show him something he does not see.
-------

M: I don't believe you can see or understand anything about anybody else you haven't first been educated on because it's who you are, yourself. The difference is in the willingness to see and admit that, no?

DSF: A blind man is willing to see?no?

M: Perhaps you are unaware that most emotional blindness is motivated.

DSF: Perhaps I'm more aware than you give me credit for?so exactly what motivated you to make your post?

Se the above question? What do you think it was? What is your motivation is asking?

It is not just a question of whether a blind man is willing to see. Often a person is willfully blind, sometimes not. The real question, I think, however, is how do you help the blind see? To put people down, I think, is pretty useless, but sometime people without any shame can profit from what others will manufacture for them. Some may see themselves in the mirror of others. I go for the mirror approach. Sometimes I show what people are. Sometimes I mimic what they are. But I get in trouble for doing the latter. We can't be sure, can we, what effect our posts will have regardless of our intentions. I intend to say what I see is true.
----------

DSF: Zen allusions aside...I found your post ironic in regard to criticizing others while pretending to be above it all.

M: As I said, you can't point out how somebody else pretends to be above it all without recognizing, I should hope, that by doing so you are placing yourself in the same shoes they are in. In my case, however, I am aware that is what I am doing just as I am thereby aware that that was what he did.

DSF: Since all things being otherwise equal?are you saying that your self awareness is the only differential? So tell me again?what exactly motivated you to make your post?

M: Our poor friend has a need to put down other people for being what he is. Not a good place to be, would you agree? Doesn't he deserve a chance at a different perspective?


-------

DSF: Self awareness is one thing?but please tell me on what basis you conclude that someone else is 'pretending' to feel a certain way?

M: We are all the same. When you know who you are you will know everything. Mainly, you will know that whereas you thought you knew everything, you actually know nothing at all. In that way, you will know that those who think they know something are pretending.

DSF: Totally disagree?the more you know...the more you become aware of the depth of your abject ignorance.

That's what I said.
-------

Back on topic?many political 'lemmings' fail in that they closely tie their sense of identity and self-worth to a political ideology?.letting partisan politics transcend matters of principles and values. But, IMO...regardless of political persuasion?most all have good intentions for humanity?and really only differ on the particular means to get to that end?and therein lies the rub. The poll results are interesting as I previously noted?.right now about 45% of the Right leaning believe that that Left mean well...while only 17% of the Left leaning believe that that Right means well. That's quite a difference. I'm curious...why such a huge difference?

M: There are many possibilities that jump to mind. The poll is statistically wrong for the real world. Liberals are less charitable and less intelligent and self aware. The right is so deluded it's harder not to think more is at play then mere misplaced intentions. The right just got through destroying our country and forgiveness is harder to come by. Lots of possibilities.

 

[jonks]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/ne...a/lowres/mban2393l.jpg

 

[Moonbeam]

C: So again, try reading and keeping up.

M: OK, I understand. You have made a fool of yourself so now you want to parse words to obfuscate the issue. So let me try again more clearly:

You originally responded in the thread with this:

"Ah, if only "intentions" translated into "results". "intentions" might make you feel good but it's the results that matter.

And sure, for the most part, I think liberals are well intentioned - just very misguided."

I then asked you what was misguiding them:

You answered ideology.

I explained that it couldn't just be ideology because liberals and conservatives have much ideology in common. So ideology is a meaningless answer. I say to my self, what is liberal ideology. Ah yes, the market system and democracy, private property, classic elements that are well intentioned but misguided or else Caddy is some sort of block head.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ah?helping the blind see?a very noble cause...but somehow I don't think it worked. Me thinks that the mirror you hold up for others is more of a reflection of you than anything else.

DSF: Back on topic?many political 'lemmings' fail in that they closely tie their sense of identity and self-worth to a political ideology?.letting partisan politics transcend matters of principles and values. But, IMO...regardless of political persuasion?most all have good intentions for humanity?and really only differ on the particular means to get to that end?and therein lies the rub. The poll results are interesting as I previously noted?.right now about 45% of the Right leaning believe that that Left mean well...while only 17% of the Left leaning believe that that Right means well. That's quite a difference. I'm curious...why such a huge difference?

M: There are many possibilities that jump to mind. The poll is statistically wrong for the real world. Liberals are less charitable and less intelligent and self aware. The right is so deluded it's harder not to think more is at play then mere misplaced intentions. The right just got through destroying our country and forgiveness is harder to come by. Lots of possibilities.

DSF: Or maybe the Left is so deluded or extremist that it's harder for them to imagine that people from the Right care about people. Or that the Left is just beginning it's turn to further destroy our country and lack of forgiveness by the Right is forthcoming. You're right?lots of possibilities. Will the circle be unbroken?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Ah?helping the blind see?a very noble cause...but somehow I don't think it worked. Me thinks that the mirror you hold up for others is more of a reflection of you than anything else.

DSF: Back on topic?many political 'lemmings' fail in that they closely tie their sense of identity and self-worth to a political ideology?.letting partisan politics transcend matters of principles and values. But, IMO...regardless of political persuasion?most all have good intentions for humanity?and really only differ on the particular means to get to that end?and therein lies the rub. The poll results are interesting as I previously noted?.right now about 45% of the Right leaning believe that that Left mean well...while only 17% of the Left leaning believe that that Right means well. That's quite a difference. I'm curious...why such a huge difference?

M: There are many possibilities that jump to mind. The poll is statistically wrong for the real world. Liberals are less charitable and less intelligent and self aware. The right is so deluded it's harder not to think more is at play then mere misplaced intentions. The right just got through destroying our country and forgiveness is harder to come by. Lots of possibilities.

DSF: Or maybe the Left is so deluded or extremist that it's harder for them to imagine that people from the Right care about people. Or that the Left is just beginning it's turn to further destroy our country and lack of forgiveness by the Right is forthcoming. You're right?lots of possibilities. Will the circle be unbroken?

The mirror I hold up is one that depends on self knowledge. When you know yourself you know everybody, as I already said. When you don't know who you are you see a stranger when you see who you are. And note that I suggested possibilities for the left and the right, but you focused only on the left. That's because, although you might imagine yourself to be more charitable, you weren't with those words, eh?