Discussion Are you voting 3rd party for president in 2020

[eelw]

Every vote for Biden is a FU to MAGA.

Every write in for Ronald Reagan is a bitch move.

But do you really expect lifelong Republicans would vote for a democrat?

 

[fleshconsumed]

In a solid blue state I could do so, but this is a referendum on ending the Trump Error. I want my vote to count in the popular vote total.

Same, I'm in a solid blue state. In 2016 I wrote in Bernie (the state still went for Hillary). This year I cast my vote for Biden, I know that my state will go to Biden even without my vote, and I know that EC is all that matters, but I still want to deliver Trump the most resounding popular vote defeat possible. Because fuck that guy and fuck GOP.

 

[blackangst1]

Yes

 

[zzyzxroad]

Yes

Who and why?

 

[blackangst1]

Who and why?

Jo, because 1. her beliefs are closest to mine, and 2. neither Trump nor Biden are fit for office.

edit: IMHO

 

[fskimospy]

But do you really expect lifelong Republicans would vote for a democrat?

A good friend of mine back home is a lifelong republican and is casting her vote for Biden. She’s an evangelical, pro life Christian and she’s going straight ticket democrat.

This is a national emergency. Some people in the Republican Party have in fact stood up and noticed this. Anyone who is not voting for Biden is at least complicit, and assuming Trump loses I suspect they will look back on their enabling of Trump with shame.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Jo, because 1. her beliefs are closest to mine, and 2. neither Trump nor Biden are fit for office.

edit: IMHO

I don't know anything about her. Which beliefs do you two align on?

 

[blackangst1]

I don't know anything about her. Which beliefs do you two align on?

Heres a few:

opposes federal civil asset forfeiture and qualified immunity
opposes embargoes, economic sanctions, and foreign aid
supports cutting government spending to reduce taxes
elimination of trade barriers and tariffs
supports the repeal of quotas on the number of people who can legally enter the United States to work, visit, or reside

There are a few things I disagree on, but my agreements far outweigh my disagreements.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Heres a few:

opposes federal civil asset forfeiture and qualified immunity
opposes embargoes, economic sanctions, and foreign aid
supports cutting government spending to reduce taxes
elimination of trade barriers and tariffs
supports the repeal of quotas on the number of people who can legally enter the United States to work, visit, or reside

There are a few things I disagree on, but my agreements far outweigh my disagreements.

These seem like vague ideas.

For example:
"supports cutting government spending to reduce taxes"

This sounds awesome to me but does she have a plan to do it? I see that one a lot but it doesn't ever same to have a valid plan to back it up.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

These seem like vague ideas.

For example:
"supports cutting government spending to reduce taxes"

This sounds awesome to me but does she have a plan to do it? I see that one a lot but it doesn't ever same to have a valid plan to back it up.

Exactly, generally where would the cuts be made and whom would get what portion of the tax savings.
People continually miss these two important items. Doesn’t need to be a completely fleshed out plan but I do hope people would want a general outline.

 

[blackangst1]

These seem like vague ideas.

For example:
"supports cutting government spending to reduce taxes"

This sounds awesome to me but does she have a plan to do it? I see that one a lot but it doesn't ever same to have a valid plan to back it up.

Alot of details are on her website. One area of reduced spending is military:

Military spending is spread throughout the budget. It totals more than $1 trillion per year. Just Pentagon spending alone is more than the spending of the next seven largest military countries combined!
To fight whom exactly? There is no threat or combination of threats that justify such a budget.
And we don’t even know what we’re getting for our money. The Pentagon refused audits until 2018, when it finally completed one – and failed miserably!
We do know that the F-35 has wasted nearly $1 trillion – equal to our entire defense spending for a year. On one project! The waste and incompetence don’t stop there. But there can be no incentive to perform when Congress and the president always give the Pentagon a blank check.
Meanwhile, 25 trillion dollars in national debt represents a real threat to American security. We must stop spending and borrowing so much.
As President, I will veto any military spending bill that does not cut defense spending dramatically.
This will allow us to finally balance the federal budget, so we stop adding to the nation’s debt. When we return financial resources to the private sector, we’ll see millions of new, private-sector jobs for our military personnel to choose from.

 

[eelw]

Jo, because 1. her beliefs are closest to mine, and 2. neither Trump nor Biden are fit for office.

edit: IMHO

Elmo write ins going to get more votes than her

 

[zzyzxroad]

Alot of details are on her website. One area of reduced spending is military:

Military spending is spread throughout the budget. It totals more than $1 trillion per year. Just Pentagon spending alone is more than the spending of the next seven largest military countries combined!
To fight whom exactly? There is no threat or combination of threats that justify such a budget.
And we don’t even know what we’re getting for our money. The Pentagon refused audits until 2018, when it finally completed one – and failed miserably!
We do know that the F-35 has wasted nearly $1 trillion – equal to our entire defense spending for a year. On one project! The waste and incompetence don’t stop there. But there can be no incentive to perform when Congress and the president always give the Pentagon a blank check.
Meanwhile, 25 trillion dollars in national debt represents a real threat to American security. We must stop spending and borrowing so much.
As President, I will veto any military spending bill that does not cut defense spending dramatically.
This will allow us to finally balance the federal budget, so we stop adding to the nation’s debt. When we return financial resources to the private sector, we’ll see millions of new, private-sector jobs for our military personnel to choose from.

Does she have her plan detailed on some place I am missing. I can only find the below on cutting military spending. That is 203 words. If that's it, I could have come up with her pan in like 15 minutes and I type slow. Some posters on these forums have a higher average post word count.

Military Spending | Dr. Jo Jorgensen vows to cut spending if elected.

Military Spending: Just Pentagon spending alone is more than the spending of the next seven largest military countries combined!

jo20.com

 

[blackangst1]

Does she have her plan detailed on some place I am missing. I can only find the below on cutting military spending. That is 203 words. If that's it, I could have come up with her pan in like 15 minutes and I type slow. Some posters on these forums have a higher average post word count.

Military Spending | Dr. Jo Jorgensen vows to cut spending if elected.

Military Spending: Just Pentagon spending alone is more than the spending of the next seven largest military countries combined!

jo20.com

You understand when campaigning no candidate ever has a complete 400 page plan for everything they promise. Right? Its about ideas.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Isnt that what all campaign promises are? Ideas?

See above just some outline is needed. I’m going to cut x from military y from education z from drug enforcement and give this % flat back to everyone or that percent to under/over this amount.

While I know nothing of this person it is like going to a job interview and saying you’ll increase productivity and reduce costs. When asked how you reply hire me first and you’ll find out.

Or better put
Per a pretty intense Guy I worked for said.
“It’s not a plan until it is written”
Which is pretty accurate, the written portion could be an email or electronic note, simple hand written thing on a post it or a complete plan written in a note book. The important point was writing it down so it can be reviewed and changes (redirections) made when something doesn’t work as planned.
I used to not agree with this idea because I could say “hey @blackangst1 lets get coffee on Tuesday” and you could say “yes that’s great meet at 10am”. This isn’t a plan, this is an agreement. We are both agreeing to be at the coffee place at 10am for now.
Back to this tax cut politician. If they put a basic outline of the plan into some written form then it is a valid thing. We would need measures to judge it, they’d ideally need to identify how they will gain agreement from other law makers, who would be impacted by spending cuts and tax cuts and some sort of time frame as in I’ll get to work on this day one or I’ll see what needs to be modified to gain agreement and have it ready by next year or whatever time frame.

Edit missed your above post and I haven’t read it but that is a good first step. Itemize what needs to be cut

 

[zzyzxroad]

You understand when campaigning no candidate ever has a complete 400 page plan for everything they promise. Right? Its about ideas.

Yes and do you realize they usually have idea a little more fleshed out than this?

 

[blackangst1]

Yes and do you realize they usually have idea a little more fleshed out than this?

If you really care, which you dont, you could easily spend a bit of time understanding what is important to her. But you've already decided who youre voting for, so why waste my time? Its not my responsibility to sell you my pick for POTUS.

 

[zzyzxroad]

If you really care, which you dont, you could easily spend a bit of time understanding what is important to her. But you've already decided who youre voting for, so why waste my time? Its not my responsibility to sell you my pick for POTUS.

I am simply wondering what draws someone to vote 3rd party. I just ready her page on education and it seems chaotic. She states

"The scene that results in many neighborhoods of color is hundreds of families entering themselves into a lottery; anxiously waiting in a community center, hoping that their number is pulled out from a bingo machine so that their child can get the education they deserve. "

but never addresses how that will get fixed other than "education marketplace"??? and ending federal involvement of college student loans.

Education | Issues| Jo Jorgensen for President 2020 | USA

Eductation stance by Dr. Jo Jorgensen, 2020 Presdential Campaign. Read all of her issues on this website. Libertarian 2020.

jo20.com

So far I have no idea why anyone would vote for this lady.

 

[zzyzxroad]

If you really care, which you dont, you could easily spend a bit of time understanding what is important to her. But you've already decided who youre voting for, so why waste my time? Its not my responsibility to sell you my pick for POTUS.

I just read her healthcare page and it is idiotic. Have you read it? She actually bring up the healthcare system of Singapore.

 

[zinfamous]

Well, Kanye has officially qualified in MD to appear on the ballot "as a write in." ...I honestly don't know what that means--isn't every person and object "qualified" as a write-in?

Hell, our stupid governor wrote in Reagan, and Reagan's a fucking retarded corpse. Though, I bet he feels real stupid now, having voted before he could officially vote for Kanye!

 

[zinfamous]

I just read her healthcare page and it is idiotic. Have you read it? She actually bring up the healthcare system of Singapore.

Yeah, I listened to her and her "running mate" on NPR about 2 months ago, and she is a phenomenally stupid person.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Well, Kanye has officially qualified in MD to appear on the ballot "as a write in." ...I honestly don't know what that means--isn't every person and object "qualified" as a write-in?

Hell, our stupid governor wrote in Reagan, and Reagan's a fucking retarded corpse. Though, I bet he feels real stupid now, having voted before he could officially vote for Kanye!

He was on the California ballot as someone's VP.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If you really care, which you dont, you could easily spend a bit of time understanding what is important to her. But you've already decided who youre voting for, so why waste my time? Its not my responsibility to sell you my pick for POTUS.

No, it's hers.

 

[zinfamous]

I am simply wondering what draws someone to vote 3rd party. I just ready her page on education and it seems chaotic. She states

"The scene that results in many neighborhoods of color is hundreds of families entering themselves into a lottery; anxiously waiting in a community center, hoping that their number is pulled out from a bingo machine so that their child can get the education they deserve. "

but never addresses how that will get fixed other than "education marketplace"??? and ending federal involvement of college student loans.

Education | Issues| Jo Jorgensen for President 2020 | USA

Eductation stance by Dr. Jo Jorgensen, 2020 Presdential Campaign. Read all of her issues on this website. Libertarian 2020.

jo20.com

So far I have no idea why anyone would vote for this lady.

"education marketplace" basically means CHARTER SCHOOLS! The conservative wet dream that all education should be for-profit privatized. And now after nearly 2 decades of solid data, we know that the results of charter schools, on average, are no better, and probably a wee bit worse than the standard we have in public schools.

A new government report finds that charter school and public school students have the same academic performance

The U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Educational Statistics released a report that noted "no measurable differences" in the students' average reading and mathematics scores.

www.newsweek.com

.

Charter School Achievement Data - The Center for Education Reform

Since 1993, the leading voice and advocate for lasting, substantive and structural education reform in the U.S.

edreform.com

(those appear to be relatively neutral sources--I saw some that showed some small percentage in improved metrics for charter schools....but those all come from charter school interest groups, lol). ...and in the area where it does seem to show some benefit, urban communities and specifically with minority children, such data appears to be influenced the the ability of those low-performing charter schools to simply close and remove themselves from the data pool (basically how a failed McDonald's closes, and is replaced in the same spot by a different franchised McDonalds--no one ever knew it failed). The Newsweek article mentions that in this communities, some 8% of charter schools fail and do not report their data. This is something that public schools can't do.

They are more expensive to maintain and operate, a handful of board members profit massively on them, and there is literally no benefit to the students. It is, like every libertopian fantasy, a preposterously broken idea that is only ever intended to shuffle money around to the self-appointed "deserving betters."

 

[zzyzxroad]

No, it's hers.

Well plus I thought by adding I had already voted I was not looking to have my mind changed. I am simply curios on why people would vote 3rd party. I guess I am not allowed to point our her ideas don't seem thought out.