Are you ready for American Extremists?

[bfdd]

This is P&N, reasonable arguments have no place here.

While I do agree that the government is chipping away at some of these rights, saying there should be no federal government or that it should be involved in very few affairs just isn't practical and leads to even more inefficiency and a complicated sets of rules for anything that is in multiple states.

False, but whatever. I already made my point. People look to the Red Cross for first aid and cpr certification, they are a non governmental entity. You're telling me it is impossible that a non governmental entity could fill the role of the FAA? Please. I'm not saying the FAA doesn't do some good, I'm just saying your ass is ignorant as fuck if you think we need the government to regulate with an iron fist air travel.

Ever heard of a Los Angeles Structural Welding Certification? This welding certification is highly respected, yet it is not a Federal Government regulation or cert, hell not even a State of California regulation or cert. So please spare me the fucking non-sense that we need this giant entity to take care of us in this day and age. If anything we need it even less because communication and the spread of information happens and near light speed.

 

[modestninja]

False, but whatever. I already made my point. People look to the Red Cross for first aid and cpr certification, they are a non governmental entity. You're telling me it is impossible that a non governmental entity could fill the role of the FAA? Please. I'm not saying the FAA doesn't do some good, I'm just saying your ass is ignorant as fuck if you think we need the government to regulate with an iron fist air travel.

Ever heard of a Los Angeles Structural Welding Certification? This welding certification is highly respected, yet it is not a Federal Government regulation or cert, hell not even a State of California regulation or cert. So please spare me the fucking non-sense that we need this giant entity to take care of us in this day and age. If anything we need it even less because communication and the spread of information happens and near light speed.

So who gives the non-governmental organization that replaces the FAA authority? What if my airport (MSP) doesn't want to listen to what that organization says and we have a completely different system than what they say should be the norm? Now planes have to have two different navigation systems so they can fly from LAX to MSP? Or another company has to open up a new airport in Minneapolis that follows the NGO?

 

[monovillage]

So who gives the non-governmental organization that replaces the FAA authority? What if my airport (MSP) doesn't want to listen to what that organization says and we have a completely different system than what they say should be the norm? Now planes have to have two different navigation systems so they can fly from LAX to MSP? Or another company has to open up a new airport in Minneapolis that follows the NGO?

Why wouldn't the Federal Gov't just have a small 50 person bureau that writes the regulations and tells the States "here you go folks, these are the regulations each State needs to follow" The States then comply unless the Feds screwed up and it's done in a very small and cost effective manner.

What is/was the FAA budget you may ask? about $18 Billion dollars.

 

[modestninja]

Why wouldn't the Federal Gov't just have a small 50 person bureau that writes the regulations and tells the States "here you go folks, these are the regulations each State needs to follow" The States then comply unless the Feds screwed up and it's done in a very small and cost effective manner.

What is/was the FAA budget you may ask? about $18 Billion dollars.

You think that would be cheaper? I have my doubts that 50 different states complying with the same regulations (I guess I don't understand why they would be different between two state except for something like deicing equipment which is already different depending on the climate) be cheaper than one entity doing the whole thing.

Also, if the federal government is telling the states what they need to do anyway, what's the point? The feds would be still be dictating to the states.

 

[davmat787]

I'll try and make it easier for you to understand.

*Far-right politics may involve anti-immigration and anti-integration stances towards groups that are deemed inferior and undesirable.[1] At the most extreme, far-right movements have pursued oppression and genocide against groups of people on the basis of their alleged inferiority.[2] Far right politics commonly includes authoritarianism, nativism, racism and xenophobia.[3]*

How much of that do you see from right wing posters here, and how much do you see Islamic terrorists posting?

edit- Yes I typed it out again, but thats what your intel agencies are saying

Do you (or anyone else that cares to answer) think someone wanting to fix the southern border problem to try to stop illegal immigration is indicative of extremist far right politics? Note: This person is in favor of keeping the legal immigration program.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I don't disagree woolfe, but it isn't about that any longer. It has been exploited and warped into a tool to be used to subvert us. It's quite clear that is what they are doing. Just look at how they vilify words that have no vile meaning. It's sad. hate hate hate is all I see when I see inequality.

You actually get it. I was thinking you might be playing me. But you really see it . You still need the key. It didn,t just happen like this . This has taken more years than is actually believable unless ya have the key. You will find it I can see that . Some advice . Just forget it enjoy now what fun live full , Your knowing won't change one thing. Kenneddy new back in 62 or befor and it was really old than.

 

[Jhhnn]

You think that would be cheaper? I have my doubts that 50 different states complying with the same regulations (I guess I don't understand why they would be different between two state except for something like deicing equipment which is already different depending on the climate) be cheaper than one entity doing the whole thing.

Also, if the federal government is telling the states what they need to do anyway, what's the point? The feds would be still be dictating to the states.

Hey, we could have a very profitable race to the bottom, with airlines moving aircraft registrations to states with the most lax enforcement of maintenance & safety standards, kinda like the way banks picked their regulators in the Bush era, or having your ship registered in Panama...

I smell... Bonuses! Big Ones! Oh, Baby!

 

[monovillage]

You think that would be cheaper? I have my doubts that 50 different states complying with the same regulations (I guess I don't understand why they would be different between two state except for something like deicing equipment which is already different depending on the climate) be cheaper than one entity doing the whole thing.

Also, if the federal government is telling the states what they need to do anyway, what's the point? The feds would be still be dictating to the states.

and you will never see the difference between the Feds actually doing the job the Constitution laid out for them as opposed to what we have now.

 

[Wreckem]

Lets start with the right to due process.

What part of due process?

 

[modestninja]

and you will never see the difference between the Feds actually doing the job the Constitution laid out for them as opposed to what we have now.

Which part of the constitution would the FAA violate? And assuming it violates that part of the constitution, how would the federal government mandating air traffic regulations to the states not violate the same part of it?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Which part of the constitution would the FAA violate? And assuming it violates that part of the constitution, how would the federal government mandating air traffic regulations to the states not violate the same part of it?

Some people believe that the rights under the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to the states. They think that the states can do almost anything to citizens. For example, states aren't bound by due process rights of individuals. Perhaps that is their argument.

 

[bfdd]

You think that would be cheaper? I have my doubts that 50 different states complying with the same regulations (I guess I don't understand why they would be different between two state except for something like deicing equipment which is already different depending on the climate) be cheaper than one entity doing the whole thing.

Also, if the federal government is telling the states what they need to do anyway, what's the point? The feds would be still be dictating to the states.

You don't seem to understand how this shit works. For instance California and New York have a huge population and a lot of air travel. If California and New York refused to allow planes from other states or countries that didn't meet their regulations, then what would happen? Other states and countries would have to meet them or stop doing business. That wouldn't happen as it would utterly destroy other parts of the nation, so now they step it up. Please stop being so fucking ignorant to how everything works around you.

btw I'm not even going so far as to advocate such. I'm just making the argument for it. So many of you seem absolutely blind to alternatives, that anything besides the status quo can't possibly work or be right. Though you will then turn around and bitch and moan about the status quo all the while refusing to acknowledge your perpetuate it.

 

[Wreckem]

You don't seem to understand how this shit works. For instance California and New York have a huge population and a lot of air travel. If California and New York refused to allow planes from other states or countries that didn't meet their regulations, then what would happen? Other states and countries would have to meet them or stop doing business. That wouldn't happen as it would utterly destroy other parts of the nation, so now they step it up. Please stop being so fucking ignorant to how everything works around you.

You are the one that needs to stop being so fucking ignorant.

The FEDS CLEARLY HAVE THE RIGHT under the US Constitution to regulate interstate commerce.

On and taxation is also CLEARLY constitutional unless you are completely delusional or cannot read.

 

[modestninja]

Some people believe that the rights under the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to the states. They think that the states can do almost anything to citizens. For example, states aren't bound by due process rights of individuals. Perhaps that is their argument.

Even if that were true (thank God it isn't), I don't see any difference between the proposal he brought up where the Feds tell the states what they have to do and the current FAA with respect to the constitution. I mean the only difference I see between the two, is who actually enforces the regulations.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Whoops, nm

 

[RabidMongoose]

Even if that were true (thank God it isn't), I don't see any difference between the proposal he brought up where the Feds tell the states what they have to do and the current FAA with respect to the constitution. I mean the only difference I see between the two, is who actually enforces the regulations.

I agree, I was just providing my interpretation of that post.

 

[modestninja]

You don't seem to understand how this shit works. For instance California and New York have a huge population and a lot of air travel. If California and New York refused to allow planes from other states or countries that didn't meet their regulations, then what would happen? Other states and countries would have to meet them or stop doing business. That wouldn't happen as it would utterly destroy other parts of the nation, so now they step it up. Please stop being so fucking ignorant to how everything works around you.

But what if NY and California choose different regulations? Planes would still need to adhere to both systems in order to do business... I don't see any reason why those two states would necessarily agree to the same system unless someone is there to enforce it. This is the one of the best examples of why the interstate commerce clause is so important. A situation like you describe would be a nightmare of red tape.

 

[bfdd]

You are the one that needs to stop being so fucking ignorant.

The FEDS CLEARLY HAVE THE RIGHT under the US Constitution to regulate interstate commerce.

On and taxation is also CLEARLY constitutional unless you are completely delusional or cannot read.

Actually I have no issue with taxation, I have issue with the way taxes are done currently and I believe it is bullshit and exploitative of the constitution. I believe the Federal Reserve Act has tried to turn us into slaves to an unaccountable entity through forced taxation. I also believe that the Supreme Court made a grave mistake by saying the spending of money is the same as freedom of speech. I believe that they have made a logical error because then taxation would be illegal. As congress has the power to tax, while congress doesn't have the power to infringe on the freedom of speech. Well taxation would require that infringement of my speech, as I cannot spend money how I see fit, my expression.

Or do you think I'm just being an idiot there too? Don't think that just because I'm against this Federal Government that I'm against a Federal Government or Government in general. I just refuse to be a slave to it or you(my fellow citizens) simply because you demand it of me. I am a free man, just as I view you a free man. I would not take from you, I do not wish you to take from me.

Why did China build space station modules capable of connecting to any other countries space docking systems? Not everyone is Sony.

 

[RabidMongoose]

..

 

[RabidMongoose]

But what if NY and California choose different regulations? Planes would still need to adhere to both systems in order to do business... I don't see any reason why those two states would necessarily agree to the same system unless someone is there to enforce it.

They cannot constitutionally do that, but I guess that's what you're saying.

Basically, someone doesn't have a very good grasp of the Constitution in its most basic terms if they think that is even constitutional.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Why wouldn't the Federal Gov't just have a small 50 person bureau that writes the regulations and tells the States "here you go folks, these are the regulations each State needs to follow" The States then comply unless the Feds screwed up and it's done in a very small and cost effective manner.

What is/was the FAA budget you may ask? about $18 Billion dollars.

Ya don't change the gooberment Ya fix it only . Back to orginal form.
They need to manage federal land . WE do need federal land.
Congress and senate should be able to MANAGE the federal government. Pres is like CEO, Not KING, We the People Are Share holders. Lawyers will always be sharks no matter how ya dress them . So since they be part of judical they should not be allowed to be senaters or pres or reps . States do as please under constitution guide lines

 

[Wreckem]

Actually I have no issue with taxation, I have issue with the way taxes are done currently and I believe it is bullshit and exploitative of the constitution. I believe the Federal Reserve Act has tried to turn us into slaves to an unaccountable entity through forced taxation. I also believe that the Supreme Court made a grave mistake by saying the spending of money is the same as freedom of speech. I believe that they have made a logical error because then taxation would be illegal. As congress has the power to tax, while congress doesn't have the power to infringe on the freedom of speech. Well taxation would require that infringement of my speech, as I cannot spend money how I see fit, my expression.

Or do you think I'm just being an idiot there too? Don't think that just because I'm against this Federal Government that I'm against a Federal Government or Government in general. I just refuse to be a slave to it or you(my fellow citizens) simply because you demand it of me. I am a free man, just as I view you a free man. I would not take from you, I do not wish you to take from me.

Why did China build space station modules capable of connecting to any other countries space docking systems? Not everyone is Sony.

Logical reasoning on this board never ceases to amaze me...

:rolls eyes:

 

[spittledip]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-fbi-extremists-idUSTRE81600V20120207

you guys ready? this is some bs propaganda at its finest. but keep supporting the feds you tools

Wow... that is either bad reporting or the FBI needs to put together a more comprehensive list of traits of these so called "terrorists". According to that list, about 1/4 of the people who post on P&N could be considered terrorists. I am just hoping the reporter left out a ton of details.

 

[modestninja]

Ya don't change the gooberment Ya fix it only . Back to orginal form.
They need to manage federal land . WE do need federal land.
Congress and senate should be able to MANAGE the federal government. Pres is like CEO, Not KING, We the People Are Share holders. Lawyers will always be sharks no matter how ya dress them . So since they be part of judical they should not be allowed to be senaters or pres or reps . States do as please under constitution guide lines

You think lawyers are part of the judicial branch of government? I don't even know where to start with that one...

 

[Wreckem]

Wow... that is either bad reporting or the FBI needs to put together a more comprehensive list of traits of these so called "terrorists". According to that list, about 1/4 of the people who post on P&N could be considered terrorists. I am just hoping the reporter left out a ton of details.

Anyone that uses force against another because they don't believe in the Govts powers to tax or regulate are extremists. And this is why there are Special Agents in the IRS Criminal Division.