Are you a legal immigrant who used or may use any social service, including CHIP? GTFO.

Jan 25, 2011
16,581
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My god tell me this is fake. Tell me they aren’t actually considering this. What in the actual fuck is wrong with these people?!?!

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/20...efits-public-charge?__twitter_impression=true

The Trump administration is working on new rules that would allow the government to keep immigrants from settling in the US, or even force them to leave, if their families had used a broad swath of local, state, or federal social services to which they’re legally entitled — even enrolling their US-born children in Head Start or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP).

A draft of the new regulation, posted first by Vox, can be found at the bottom of this article or on DocumentCloud. (If the DocumentCloud link does not work for you, here is a direct link to the PDF.) Reuters originally reported on the existence of the draft regulation Thursday.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,002
4,778
136
Is there anyone here who is actually surprised by any of this? Trump doesn't actually care and can't make up his own mind on his positions anymore.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's almost as if their beef isn't actually with illegal immigration like they claimed, but rather that these people are foreign (read: non-white) in the first place. Imagine that.

You're the real racist!
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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It's almost as if their beef isn't actually with illegal immigration like they claimed, but rather that these people are foreign (read: non-white) in the first place. Imagine that.

Imagine you feel the non-white immigrants would use such services more than white immigrants. Of course we don’t need to imagine it because you almost certainly do and that’s at play in your feelings about this policy.

An actual unbiased reader would properly assume that white and non-white immigrants were just as likely to use the services and thus making it merely a stupid policy rather than a racist one, but that “unbiased” part would rule you out.
 
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mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
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Imagine you feel the non-white immigrants would use such services more than white immigrants. Of course we don’t need to imagine it because you almost certainly do and that’s at play in your feelings about this policy.

An actual unbiased reader would properly assume that white and non-white immigrants were just as likely to use the services and thus making it merely a stupid policy rather than a racist one, but that “unbiased” part would rule you out.
An actual unbiased reader would also recognize that the vast majority of immigrants to the US are non-white, so regardless of the relative percentages using them, the vast majority of those affected would be non-white, but that "unbiased" part would rule you out.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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126
An actual unbiased reader would also recognize that the vast majority of immigrants to the US are non-white, so regardless of the relative percentages using them, the vast majority of those affected would be non-white, but that "unbiased" part would rule you out.

The vast majority of the ex-U.S. world population isn’t white either so that would stand to reason that immigrants would mirror that which is why your assumption and resulting error is understandable. However in this case you’re wrong as the racial breakdown (2016 numbers) is 46% White, 27% Asian, 9% Black, and 15% some other race. Even if you go the ethnicity vs race path, Hispanics stil aren’t a majority as in 2016, almost 45 percent of immigrants (19.6 million people) reported having Hispanic or Latino origins.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,474
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Immigrants should not be allowed to use ANY social services.

Why should the host country be responsible for supporting non-citizens?

I'm not anti-immigration, but I AM anti-immigrants (of any color, race, religion, or national origin) coming to the US for any form of welfare.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,787
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This has Stephen Miller's fingerprints all over it. My God, I hope it isn't true.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
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Immigrants should not be allowed to use ANY social services.

Why should the host country be responsible for supporting non-citizens?

I'm not anti-immigration, but I AM anti-immigrants (of any color, race, religion, or national origin) coming to the US for any form of welfare.
He's got a point. When did it become a right to immigrate here and then be supported once you get here? I'm sure there are many cases where it is in our interest to do just that, including for a variety of humanitarian reason. Still, legal immigration is not a right and Illegal immigration is crime, but I risk being called racist and other names for pointing it out.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Immigrants should not be allowed to use ANY social services.

Why should the host country be responsible for supporting non-citizens?

I'm not anti-immigration, but I AM anti-immigrants (of any color, race, religion, or national origin) coming to the US for any form of welfare.

We don't suffer legal immigrants. We invite them to become part of this great country. Part of that is support for people who find themselves down & out. Remember 2009, when employment was in freefall? People at the bottom of the heap took the biggest hit. That category includes a lot of legal immigrants & their American citizen children.

They are us & we need to treat them as we do each other. To do otherwise dishonors our heritage.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,206
6,796
136
Immigrants should not be allowed to use ANY social services.

Why should the host country be responsible for supporting non-citizens?

I'm not anti-immigration, but I AM anti-immigrants (of any color, race, religion, or national origin) coming to the US for any form of welfare.

Because many of these people don't intend to be leeches, and may fall on hard times or need a helping hand as they settle in? The US has been described as the "land of opportunity" precisely because it welcomed less fortunate people hoping for a fresh start, not just college-educated middle class people with cushy jobs already lined up.

Besides, even if you're going to be strictly pragmatic about it, denying access to social services makes it less likely that people will want to emigrate to the US, no matter how well-educated they are or how strong their work ethic may be. It's a perpetual "we think less of you" signal.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,581
8,657
146
He's got a point. When did it become a right to immigrate here and then be supported once you get here? I'm sure there are many cases where it is in our interest to do just that, including for a variety of humanitarian reason. Still, legal immigration is not a right and Illegal immigration is crime, but I risk being called racist and other names for pointing it out.
Yeah fuck immigrants. If something happens and they find themselves out of a job they can leave. Why should they benefit from any safety net they should fall in to as no fault of their own.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,127
14,771
136
Anyone see suburbicon? A lot of the posters remind of people in that town. Pathetic.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
We don't suffer legal immigrants. We invite them to become part of this great country. Part of that is support for people who find themselves down & out. Remember 2009, when employment was in freefall? People at the bottom of the heap took the biggest hit. That category includes a lot of legal immigrants & their American citizen children.

They are us & we need to treat them as we do each other. To do otherwise dishonors our heritage.
True, once we allow someone to immigrate to our country and put them on a path to citizenship they should be eligible for basic services and support. This keeps them on the road to eventually becoming self-supporting citizens.

It is in our country's best interests to educate, support and provide for folks living here regardless of there immigration status to help them be law-abiding, self-supporting members of society. I don't know how to do that without rewarding the folks who broke the law to immigrate here illegally, and not encourage more to do so, at the same time.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
True, once we allow someone to immigrate to our country and put them on a path to citizenship they should be eligible for basic services and support. This keeps them on the road to eventually becoming self-supporting citizens.

It is in our country's best interests to educate, support and provide for folks living here regardless of there immigration status to help them be law-abiding, self-supporting members of society. I don't know how to do that without rewarding the folks who broke the law to immigrate here illegally, and not encourage more to do so, at the same time.

Legal iimmigrants have extensive paper trails that are easy to check, right down to their fingerprints.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,474
10,816
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Because many of these people don't intend to be leeches, and may fall on hard times or need a helping hand as they settle in? The US has been described as the "land of opportunity" precisely because it welcomed less fortunate people hoping for a fresh start, not just college-educated middle class people with cushy jobs already lined up.

Besides, even if you're going to be strictly pragmatic about it, denying access to social services makes it less likely that people will want to emigrate to the US, no matter how well-educated they are or how strong their work ethic may be. It's a perpetual "we think less of you" signal.

They should come here able to completely support themselves, financially and medically with no government aid...OR have a sponsor who is willing AND able to step up and take care of their needs.
This is NOT the responsibility of the American taxpayers.
Note...I don't include unemployment insurance or "Obamacare type health insurance" as long as they worked enough to meet the requirement of whatever state where they live.

I wonder...how many of the posters advocating "immigant welfare" are immigrants themselves...or children/grandchildren of immigrants?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,127
14,771
136
They should come here able to completely support themselves, financially and medically with no government aid...OR have a sponsor who is willing AND able to step up and take care of their needs.
This is NOT the responsibility of the American taxpayers.
Note...I don't include unemployment insurance or "Obamacare type health insurance" as long as they worked enough to meet the requirement of whatever state where they live.

I wonder...how many of the posters advocating "immigant welfare" are immigrants themselves...or children/grandchildren of immigrants?

How many immigrants are on welfare? How many citizens are on welfare. I'm sure you base your support of policies on actual facts so this should be an easy one for you.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,302
136
The vast majority of the ex-U.S. world population isn’t white either so that would stand to reason that immigrants would mirror that which is why your assumption and resulting error is understandable. However in this case you’re wrong as the racial breakdown (2016 numbers) is 46% White, 27% Asian, 9% Black, and 15% some other race. Even if you go the ethnicity vs race path, Hispanics stil aren’t a majority as in 2016, almost 45 percent of immigrants (19.6 million people) reported having Hispanic or Latino origins.
You're right to point out that bigotry isn't limited to skin color. Before the current anti-Hispanic xenophobia, it was bigotry against Italian immigrants, and the Irish, Germans, Poles, Catholics, Jews, etc. Bigotry never runs out of people to be bigoted against.
With regards to this issue, I don't want immigrants getting public assistance, beyond what might be minimally necessary to get them into the workforce as a productive member of society. But as we're talking about LEGAL immigrants here, I'm also very concerned that the government comply with its constitutional requirement to ensure equal protection of the laws. On the surface, this would appear to violate that.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,787
8,966
136
They should come here able to completely support themselves, financially and medically with no government aid...OR have a sponsor who is willing AND able to step up and take care of their needs.
This is NOT the responsibility of the American taxpayers.
Note...I don't include unemployment insurance or "Obamacare type health insurance" as long as they worked enough to meet the requirement of whatever state where they live.

I wonder...how many of the posters advocating "immigant welfare" are immigrants themselves...or children/grandchildren of immigrants?

I'm a child of immigrants and an immigrant myself. I'm fine with certain forms of immigrant welfare as long as they're here legally and at least one adult in the family is working and paying taxes.

I think it is cruel and unconstitutional to punish green card holders by essentially holding their citizen children hostage, should they rely on CHIP or Head Start etc.

Granted, we're talking about a leaked policy that hasn't been fleshed out so I'm hoping this is much ado about nothing.
 
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