Are we looking at a pivotal turning point in the race for the White House?

[Fern]

What was the foreign policy disaster? Not ordering out consulate workers at the first sign of trouble? Trouble is exactly what they're supposed to stay in place and try to help with.

Not having embassies/consulates on alert due to 9/11 anniversary.

Not having sufficient security.

If the reports are true, preventing Marine security detail from having ammo.

Some may not like the President's response etc.

Allowing a situation where host nations can feel free to fail to provide adequate security, as required per int'l law, is a foreign policy and diplomatic failure.

No matter how you cut it, this isn't a positive development.

Fern

 

[Pens1566]

This is the statement.

Which was hours before the actual violence occurred. I'm sure your omission was unintentional.

 

[cybrsage]

"They" didn't fuck up. A guy at at the Cairo embassy put out an unauthorized tweet that the President has disavowed and the State Department is upset with the guy over. There's no way in which the President did anything even slightly wrong here, unless you want him to micromanage every statement by every embassy in real time.

Did Obama recall the people who put out that unauthorized official statement? If not, then he is fine with letting people like that continue in their official capacity and makes himself part of their failure.

Diplomacy is about appearence, not right and wrong, and not recalling the people who did it and replacing them gives the appearence Obama is fine with them staying and potentially doing it again.

 

[feralkid]

Did Obama recall the people who put out that unauthorized official statement? If not, then he is fine with letting people like that continue in their official capacity and makes himself part of their failure.

Diplomacy is about appearence, not right and wrong, and not recalling the people who did it and replacing them gives the appearence Obama is fine with them staying and potentially doing it again.

You're still clueless over what actually happened.


As usual...

 

[Fern]

Which was hours before the actual violence occurred. I'm sure your omission was unintentional.

I've heard it reported both ways. So, IDK.

But am curious if it was hours before, what would prompt the embassy to release such a statement if they had no idea trouble was on their doorstep?

I understand the movie trailer was just released and went viral. If so, I don't see how the embassy could reasonably be expected to be aware of it. If the protest was spontaneous, I don't see how they could have aware of it in advance either.

Not sure we're getting the full story here.

Fern

 

[Pens1566]

I've heard it reported both ways. So, IDK.

But am curious if it was hours before, what would prompt the embassy to release such a statement if they had no idea trouble was on their doorstep?

I understand the movie trailer was just released and went viral. If so, I don't see how the embassy could reasonably be expected to be aware of it. If the protest was spontaneous, I don't see how they could have aware of it in advance either.

Not sure we're getting the full story here.

Fern

It was the Egyptian embassy because it was an Egyptian cleric that was spreading the news about the film. I believe demonstrations were happening or rumored at the time, but no violence towards the embassy had happened yet.

 

[Thump553]

Fern, you heard it both ways-from Romney and his camp, and the truth. The message went out in the morning, the Eygpt embassy riot was late afternoon and Libyia was that night.

Eygptian and North Africian TV was broadcasting stories and clips from that movie, getting emotions up. The embassy was very worried something would happen and issued their message to try to calm the waters.

From the reports I've heard the trailer has been on youtube since July, barely unseen until the last few days. I remember one reporter mentioning it had less than 3,000 hits before yesterday.

Cybrsage: it's humorous that you think a disciplinary job action would be of such critical importance during a real crisis. Bureaucratic mind, I guess. Fortunately our President and others in power have different priorities than you express.

 

[hal2kilo]

Exceptions include Rush Limbaugh, Jim DeMint ,William Kristol, Spidey, ProJo and Romney himself, although he'll probably flip-flop and condemn his own statements as intemperate.

lol:biggrin:

 

[Fern]

Fern, you heard it both ways-from Romney and his camp, and the truth.
-snip-

I heard nothing from Romney.

I haven't even heard him making his remarks. I've seen them written here.

What I did hear was from morning news broadcasts. So far, I've been assuming that's where the Romney campaign got their info. At the time I heard those reports Romney hadn't made any remarks yet, or at least they weren't broadcast.

Given how much this story has changed - from Libyan attacks caused by the film to intel reports the attack was long planned by AQ types for the anniversary of 9/11, I'll wait until more is known.

Fern

 

[Agent11]

What we are seeing is the ghoulish Republican propensity to attempt to capitalize politically on any misfortune that befalls a Democrat in office.

Romney is a shameless tool.

 

[Moonbeam]

Not since Goldwater threatened to destroy the human race is nuclear Armageddon have we had such a psycho running for President. I think Romney got enough rope to hang himself with, this time.

 

[Thump553]

I heard nothing from Romney.
* * *
Given how much this story has changed - from Libyan attcks caused by the film to intel reports the attack was long planned by AQ types for the anniversity of 9/11, I'll wait until more is known.

Fern

Excellent point. Rachel Maddow (I know) did an excellent piece last night explaining the AQ connection to a splinter group in Libya. Basically after OBL got killed #2 became #1 and the new #2 was from Libya. The new #2 was then killed by drones in Yemen in June and AQ #1 has been called for retaliation for this. All the news isn't out in the public domain yet but it's looking more and more like a heavily armed (AQ?) group attacked in Bengazi (sp?) after the protests started. They attacked with fairly heavy weapons, like rocket launchers, and in two waves over a couple of hours. Not your ususual riot m.o. Most telling, President Obama has publically stated we will bring those responsible to justice-pretty clear indication to me that the USA government is presently treating Bengazi as a terrorist operation.

 

[Fern]

What we are seeing is the ghoulish Republican propensity to attempt to capitalize politically on any misfortune that befalls a Democrat in office.

Romney is a shameless tool.

Yeah. Good thing the Democrats don't do that.

Fern

 

[Matt1970]

"They" didn't fuck up. A guy at at the Cairo embassy put out an unauthorized tweet that the President has disavowed and the State Department is upset with the guy over. There's no way in which the President did anything even slightly wrong here, unless you want him to micromanage every statement by every embassy in real time.

Meanwhile, Romney jumped at the story, got his facts wrong, attacked the President for something the Cairo embassy didn't even do (ie put out an 'apology' 'after the attack as a first response'), and then refuses to admit he was wrong about either of those things.

This isn't a "both sides of wrong" issue. It's a terrible moment by an incredibly inept campaign.

You do have a point that this was from a guy at an embassy but I think it took Obama almost a whole day to react to the statement.

 

[spidey07]

Yeah. Good thing the Democrats don't do that.

Fern

The used US Soldier deaths constantly to hammer bush to try to score political points all the time. They still do.

Obama really fucked up on this one, and Romney is correctly still hammering him on it. Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake, keep it up obama!

 

[K1052]

You do have a point that this was from a guy at an embassy but I think it took Obama almost a whole day to react to the statement.

Looks like about 12 hours actually before the admin addressed it, but the tweet was taken down sooner than that.

 

[Fern]

So, this is all over some tweet?

Was it tweeted in Arabic?

Fern

 

[woolfe9999]

No.

The only ones who pay attention to this type political campaign minutia are hard-cores whose vote isn't going to change. Obama supporters think he's right, the other side doesn't. To the rest it's just the same ole political squabbling we've seen for years.

The memory of the death of the ambassador and the attack on the embassies may linger, but what Romney/Obama said in their campaign jabs will be quickly forgotten.

Fern

I'm in agreement with this to a point. The statements will be forgotten in the long run, but then, the election is less than 2 months off. I think many independents and undecideds do read the newspaper, and honestly, if the statements are compared, I doubt many will favor the tone or substance of Romney's contributions here. That said, there are many things which can happen in a campaign season, and I doubt this one will swing the result much.

Another point here is that there is something larger going on, an American foreign policy crisis in the middle east. This may have broader implications for the election than just the comments made by Romney and Obama over the past 2 days. So far, Obama has handled this well from a rhetorical standpoint. But let's see how this continues to play out over the next several days or weeks. People will continue to judge Obama for how he handles it, for good or for ill.

 

[berzerker60]

So, this is all over some tweet?

Was it tweeted in Arabic?

Fern

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/inside_the_public_relations_disaster_at_the_cairo_embassy

One staffer at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo was responsible for the statement and tweets Tuesday that have become grist for the presidential campaign, and that staffer ignored explicit State Department instructions not to issue the statement, one U.S. official close to the issue told The Cable.

Two additional administration officials confirmed the details of this account when contacted late Wednesday by The Cable.
...

Schwartz sent the statement to the State Department in Washington before publishing and the State Department directed him not to post it without changes, but Schwartz posted it anyway.
"The statement was not cleared with anyone in Washington. It was sent as ‘This is what we are putting out,'" the official said. "We replied and said this was not a good statement and that it needed major revisions. The next email we received from Embassy Cairo was ‘We just put this out.'"
...

President Obama commented on the controversy in an interview to be aired Wednesday evening on 60 Minutes.
"In an effort to cool the situation down, it didn't come from me, it didn't come from Secretary Clinton. It came from people on the ground who are potentially in danger," Obama said. "And my tendency is to cut folks a little bit of slack when they're in that circumstance, rather than try to question their judgment from the comfort of a campaign office."

Here's the twitter feed, looks like it uses both Arabic and English: https://twitter.com/USEmbassyCairo/

 

[bfdd]

Turning point? In what? There is no turning point, Obama has had this in the bag for a good year or so now due to Republican shenanigans and their inability to present a proper candidate and run a proper campaign. To us outsiders, those who care little to none for party politics and find all this non-sense to be well non-sense, have known this for awhile because we aren't blinded by bullshit the media is feeding you. Obama had the electoral vote domination in the bag and it has never been let out.

 

[Agent11]

The used US Soldier deaths constantly to hammer bush to try to score political points all the time. They still do.

Obama really fucked up on this one, and Romney is correctly still hammering him on it. Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake, keep it up obama!

There is a clearly visible difference between demanding the end to a war started on false assumptions because of American casualties and pouncing on the murder of an ambassador to misquote the president and lie for political gain.

 

[umbrella39]

with all the propping up of the obama regime..the media/hollywood/academia/his legions of willing accomplices/the fed with their quantitative smoke and mirrors..why isn't the obama 20 points or more ahead of the romney in the poles???

Come back in November for your next clue shit and run retard!

 

[spidey07]

So will Obama be cheering when many more of our embassies are attacked? Once the muslims realize the US won't do anything when they attack and overrun our embassies and kill it's only going to happen more.

Just like carter, all over again. Hammer him on this romney, pound his failed polices into the ground and into his jug eared face.

When the president and state department basically say "yeah, you're justified for being pissed at us and attacking", they are only giving the enemy a green light for more attacks.

It's a turning point alright, it's going to be bad for obama, just like it was for carter.

 

[Doppel]

Listen to Romney's leadership, that was pure ownage. And now as more embassy's are attacked because of obama appologizing for America and how we deserved to be attacked it will only make him look worse.

Repeating Carter is exactly what he's doing, hammer him on it daily Romney.

Surely you said all this in jest. This isn't even debatable. Romney simply responded incorrectly to try and score political points and made himself, as usual, look like a giant asshole.

 

[spidey07]

Surely you said all this in jest. This isn't even debatable. Romney simply responded incorrectly to try and score political points and made himself, as usual, look like a giant asshole.

Watch how this plays out as obama's failed polices...well...fail.

It's just like carter, he's just worse.