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Are we looking at a pivotal turning point in the race for the White House?

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Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Are we looking at a pivotal turning point in the race for the White House?
No.

The only ones who pay attention to this type political campaign minutia are hard-cores whose vote isn't going to change. Obama supporters think he's right, the other side doesn't. To the rest it's just the same ole political squabbling we've seen for years.

The memory of the death of the ambassador and the attack on the embassies may linger, but what Romney/Obama said in their campaign jabs will be quickly forgotten.

Fern
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Budmantom

Some day, maybe when you grow up, you will realize that no person, no nation is perfect. You may also come to realize that sometimes it is prudent to admit mistakes, especially when trying to regain trust that has been previously squandered by ill conceived policies.

Bush, Cheney, etc. tried the macho "never admit to a mistake" bullshit and looked like fools for it on the world stage.

You really can't build partnerships and alliances by proclaiming that any criticism of past or present policies we've had are without merit and disallowed.

I don't have a problem admitting to being wrong, even to people who know me personally. And I am a better man for it as I have the respect of my peers.

It works the same way on the international stage for countries.

I would ask you; do you believe that nothing you listed has merit or value?
I agree no nation is perfect, the Obama administration is more than happy to apologize for the endless mistakes that Bush and Cheney have made and I'm sure IF he had ever done anything wrong Obama would apologize for that too, luckily that still hasn't happened.

Speaking of ill conceived policies do you think that our current administration has any accountability to what is going on in the middle east?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
Are you aware of the definition of condemnation? "ondemnation - an expression of strong disapproval; pronouncing as wrong or morally culpable".

I strongly disapprove of the things the Westboro Baptist says on a daily basis, and I think that what they say is morally wrong...regardless if it is their right. How is that, in any way/shape/form, an apology?
All I did was quote the statement pal, but since you asked, I don't think it’s an apology and Romney was wrong to call it that. I feel it is more of an attack on our rights. Our Government should not go around condemning Americans exercising our freedoms. The Government is free to say they do not support the opinions expressed in the movie, but condemn it? Fuck that. That’s Un-American.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,880
1,214
126
This is the statement.
No it's not, that's only a small portion of the actual statement, the editing being done by the Romney folks to support their apologizing argument. Unfortunately for Romney they can't edit time. Despite Romney's repeated lies the embassy statement was sent out hours before the first riot began, not in apology to it.

Romney's conduct here is either stupid, shameful or both.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
No it's not, that's only a small portion of the actual statement, the editing being done by the Romney folks to support their apologizing argument. Unfortunately for Romney they can't edit time. Despite Romney's repeated lies the embassy statement was sent out hours before the first riot began, not in apology to it.

Romney's conduct here is either stupid, shameful or both.
I don't think that statement should ever have been released. Feel free to quote the whole statement. Here is all I can find from the statement.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims - as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,592
10,560
136
This is the statement.
I don't think that statement should ever have been released. Feel free to quote the whole statement. Here is all I can find from the statement.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims - as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."
I don't really agree with the Cairo embassy statement (which was disavowed by the State department as unauthorized) as issued but Romney telling the media it was an apology for an attack that hadn't even happened yet was a major fuck up. He rushed out to try to make some ground on foreign policy and embarrassed himself because he didn't have the facts or timeline down.

http://factcheck.org/2012/09/romney-gets-it-backward/
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
2
0
I don't really agree with the Cairo embassy statement (which was disavowed by the State department as unauthorized) as issued but Romney telling the media it was an apology for an attack that hadn't even happened yet was a major fuck up. He rushed out to try to make some ground on foreign policy and embarrassed himself because he didn't have the facts or timeline down.

http://factcheck.org/2012/09/romney-gets-it-backward/
They both fucked up. Timeline is irrelevant for the most part.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
-snip-

Given that the host security forces cooperated in both attacks; it will be interesting to see what line Obama toes.
I've heard differently:

1. The Libya attack was not related to the 'movie' but a preplanned military type attack involving AQ types. I also heard the Libyan security forces made an attempt to protect, but were far out gunned etc.

2. Egypt cooperated with the protesters. The former intel officer said that the Muslim Brotherhood there is in a struggle with the Salafis, a very radical Islamic group. I had not heard of them before, but apparently they are far more radical that the Muslim Brotherhood. He claimed that AQ developed out of the Salafis group. He also claimed that the Salafis had organized the protest with the objective of attacking the Muslim Brotherhood as being Pro- Western/US if Egyptian security forces moved to protect the embassy. hence they sat back and let it happen.

Fern
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,501
1
81
The reason the economy is not Mr Romney's key driver is that a lot of people remember where the economy was on January 2009. They put the responsibility of the Great Recession in the hands of Mr Bush.

The fact that the GOP's solutions for the current economic situation are higher tax cuts that greatly benefit the wealthiest and reduced regulations does not buy them much except with their base.

Last year, I overheard two middle aged white guys sitting in an Indiana McDonald's talking about this. They said that "Bush screwed up the country in eight years. They are bad mouthing Obama for not fixing it in 3 years."

On topic, I am not sure Mr Romney's comments going to change the opinion of the true undecided. It will not change the opinion of Mr Romney's or Mr Obama's supporters.
 
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SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
Things are getting bad with these Arab protests...I wonder what Obama's advisors are telling him to do. If he sends troops over there to fight them, people will accuse him of starting another war...but, if he doesnt...people will hate him for it


What to do..what to do!!
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Things are getting bad with these Arab protests...I wonder what Obama's advisors are telling him to do. If he sends troops over there to fight them, people will accuse him of starting another war...but, if he doesnt...people will hate him for it


What to do..what to do!!
Don't be silly. This is what Obama wants. More attacks are what he desires, America should be punished in his mind. You could see this in his response and the state department "oh, sorry..we could totally understand why you would kill people at our embassies, we'll try to not offend you. It is very wrong for our private citizens to offend you."
 
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SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
Don't be silly. This is what Obama wants. More attacks are what he desires, America should be punished in his mind. You could see this in his response and the state department "oh, sorry..we could totally understand why you would kill people at our embassies, we'll try to not offend you. It is very wrong for our private citizens to offend you."
What would you have him do? Wage war? You are acting like we are being attacked by the governments of these countries when these are groups of wild animals being stupid. If anything, the embassies should be on lockdown and the Americans serving there moving to safer locations.

This shit will die down.

What are you bitching about anyway? He apologized for the film, so what? Is he supposed to embrace the film?

How can you say he wants this stuff to be happening?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
They both fucked up. Timeline is irrelevant for the most part.
"They" didn't fuck up. A guy at at the Cairo embassy put out an unauthorized tweet that the President has disavowed and the State Department is upset with the guy over. There's no way in which the President did anything even slightly wrong here, unless you want him to micromanage every statement by every embassy in real time.

Meanwhile, Romney jumped at the story, got his facts wrong, attacked the President for something the Cairo embassy didn't even do (ie put out an 'apology' 'after the attack as a first response'), and then refuses to admit he was wrong about either of those things.

This isn't a "both sides of wrong" issue. It's a terrible moment by an incredibly inept campaign.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
15,433
2,989
126
No.

The only ones who pay attention to this type political campaign minutia are hard-cores whose vote isn't going to change. Obama supporters think he's right, the other side doesn't. To the rest it's just the same ole political squabbling we've seen for years.

The memory of the death of the ambassador and the attack on the embassies may linger, but what Romney/Obama said in their campaign jabs will be quickly forgotten.

Fern
Not if you are paying attention.

Pretty much everyone on both sides of the aisle has denounced Romney's statements.

Exceptions include Rush Limbaugh, Jim DeMint ,William Kristol, Spidey, ProJo and Romney himself, although he'll probably flip-flop and condemn his own statements as intemperate.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,702
49
91
with all the propping up of the obama regime..the media/hollywood/academia/his legions of willing accomplices/the fed with their quantitative smoke and mirrors..why isn't the obama 20 points or more ahead of the romney in the poles???
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
571
126
There needs to be a political cartoon that shows a guy labeled Media pasting an enormous white poster labeled "Romney Gaffe" over a mountain labeled "Obama foreign policy disaster."
 

polarmystery

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,907
8
81
Yes, we are seeing an important moment in this election. During this crisis, the President and this Administration is apologizing for our freedoms. "We the People" see this and will get rid of this Fool we have now and elect a real leader.

Romney wins with 320 Electoral College votes.

At noon, 20 JAN 2013 the healing begins with a new Administration.

Just want to quote this for posterity.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Things are getting bad with these Arab protests...I wonder what Obama's advisors are telling him to do. If he sends troops over there to fight them, people will accuse him of starting another war...but, if he doesnt...people will hate him for it


What to do..what to do!!
Obama doesn't have time for intel briefings, he is running a campaign you know....

What the world needs know is a good speech from Obama.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,576
431
126
There needs to be a political cartoon that shows a guy labeled Media pasting an enormous white poster labeled "Romney Gaffe" over a mountain labeled "Obama foreign policy disaster."
What was the foreign policy disaster? Not ordering out consulate workers at the first sign of trouble? Trouble is exactly what they're supposed to stay in place and try to help with.
 

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