Are we EVER going to get new consoles?

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Are you ready for the next gen?

  • I'm totally ready, and willing to pay to play. The 360/PS3 are starting to feel old.

  • I'd like to see them sooner rather than later, but I'm not ready to put money on them.

  • I'm completely satisfied now, but I'll probably be ready several years from now.

  • I'm completely ambivalent. Current gen is good enough, and I'll prob never care to pay for more.

  • But if someone we're to buy it for me, I'd totally want it.

  • The kinect and move ARE the next gen, and I'm totally down.

  • I'm more than happy with my Wii/PS2. I dont even have a PS3/360 yet.

  • I'd prefer a world without the 360/PS3 - too much focus on graphics vs gameplay.


Results are only viewable after voting.

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Just because it was sarcastic doesn't mean I don't want you to put your money where your mouth is.

Become a game designer, and design the perfect game under budget constraints. Clearly it's easy, and everyone else is just standing in the way of your gaming utopia.

I already put my money where my mouth is by being a consumer. I'd LOVE to give my money to the first company that comes out with the next gen and impresses me with what they have to show, be it MS, Sony, Nintendo, or anyone else.

Thats how a competitive marketplace works. Thats why we're not still playing our 8-bit NES, because they keep one-upping each other. Its the beauty of capitalism. Thats why all this talk about budgets, install base etc are irrelevant - the same issues and constraints have always been on them in the past, yet enough companies managed to survive and thrive that we have a more vibrant game industry than ever before.

I know making games is hard. But in the end, I really dont care how hard it is, because its not my job to care. It's a developer's job to care, to make better games than everyone else, and I vote with my dollars. Its a wonderful system, and we're all the better for it.

Right now the console makers are focusing on one-upping each other's stupid motion control schemes. I approve of neither, so neither will get my money, and I hope they fail, and I hope they go back to basics and release more powerful traditional consoles that impress me to the point that I want to buy them.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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It.would.get.DESTROYED on the internez if Microsoft announced a new HD console to replace the 360. And since good games take years to make these days, it immediately splits up development time and resources for the few remaining 1st/2nd party developers they have, and permanately throws off all serious development for the X360 just before they release their new sub-platform Kinect. Not to mention you force 3rd party companies to research and expand their tech abilities prematurely considering many of them barely make an annual profit on HD consoles this generation.

Japan's development alone is in TERRIBLE shape when it comes to making profitable PS3/X360 games that take full advantage of their abilities, despite the fact that there are now about 80 million units sold combined worldwide. Why in the world would they want to start all over on a PS4/X720 with exactly zero units sold? Where do they get a profit on all of this spending you want them to do? Look at Gran Turismo 5. Look at Crysis 3. There are games out and coming in the near future that take advantage of what we currently own.

All things theyve dealt with before at the end/beginning of each cycle. Theyve managed before, they'll manage again. I'm not going to shed a tear for them when the results are better looking and playing games, like with every other cycle. I'm looking at GT 5 and Crysis 2, and I'm thinking "I've seen this before". I'm not blown away. I want to be blown away again.

Haven't you heard the phrase, "stop to smell the flowers?" Try to enjoy what we do have instead of wishing for something that won't come true for a long time. Ten years ago, were you the same way? Wishing one day you could play HD games with good texture detail instead of the low-poly 480P titles we had instead? Well now that the wish has come true, why continue to look ahead instead of being relatively happy with what we've got?

See but thats the thing - I AM relatively happy. I am satisfied. I want to be MORE than satisfied. I want to be impressed, blown away. I want to see a game and think to myself "I've never seen anything like that before". Like the way you felt seeing that Killzone 2 trailer, even though it was a bullshot. The way the first gears of war dropped and there was nothing like it. I look at gears 3, and it looks the damn same as gears 1. I cant think of a SINGLE GAME coming out this xmas that isnt a direct sequel or some completely derivative garbage. Other than kinect/move, but those are DOA to me.

I want to see them step it up, and I am ready to pay for the privilege. Someone out there has gotta be with me!
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I already put my money where my mouth is by being a consumer. I'd LOVE to give my money to the first company that comes out with the next gen and impresses me with what they have to show, be it MS, Sony, Nintendo, or anyone else.

Thats how a competitive marketplace works. Thats why we're not still playing our 8-bit NES, because they keep one-upping each other. Its the beauty of capitalism. Thats why all this talk about budgets, install base etc are irrelevant - the same issues and constraints have always been on them in the past, yet enough companies managed to survive and thrive that we have a more vibrant game industry than ever before.

I know making games is hard. But in the end, I really dont care how hard it is, because its not my job to care. It's a developer's job to care, to make better games than everyone else, and I vote with my dollars. Its a wonderful system, and we're all the better for it.

Right now the console makers are focusing on one-upping each other's stupid motion control schemes. I approve of neither, so neither will get my money, and I hope they fail, and I hope they go back to basics and release more powerful traditional consoles that impress me to the point that I want to buy them.

And the competitive market is telling you you're wrong. It's like you don't even understand what I'm saying. In a competitive market, budgets, install bases, etc. are the ONLY thing that matter. Your personal satisfaction means squat.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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Clearly it's telling me I'm wrong, and that makes me a sad panda.

But budgets and install bases are secondary. Profit is what matters. That profit is derived from sales - costs. Those sales are derived from me being satisfied enough to by their product. That's where all the money for their all important budget comes from.

My (our) personal satisfaction is everything. I do not buy games out of a sense of duty or charity, I buy then cause I like them, and I only have enough money to buy the very best.

So save the economics lesson. Based on this thread, there's clearly there's not enough people like me to support a new gen, even though we've had one every 5 years like clockwork.

This saddens me, so I'll go cry in a corner while everyone else gyrates like a douche bag in front of their kinect.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
So save the economics lesson. Based on this thread, there's clearly there's not enough people like me to support a new gen, even though we've had one every 5 years like clockwork.

I just figured the economics lesson was in order, because you didn't seem to understand it at first. Economics is the reason you don't have a new console right now. Surely you can understand my confusion at your position.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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BoberFett said:
I just figured the economics lesson was in order, because you didn't seem to understand it at first. Economics is the reason you don't have a new console right now. Surely you can understand my confusion at your position.

Considering you're a (self described) sarcastic prick, with a condescending attitude, I "understand" where your confusion is coming from.
 

OptimumSlinky

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
345
1
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Respectfully, if you want to upgrade your gaming experience so badly, why are you so focused on consoles? Unified components has always been the strength/weakness of the console platform. Flexibility has always been the strength/weakness of the PC. If we start making consoles with expandable RAM, replaceable GPUs, etc, at what point does it stop? Suddenly consoles will start costing $500-$600 instead of $300-$400. They'd have to make the system more accessible from a hardware standpoint, which would increase size, making them closer to a HTPC-size. Do really care? No, and in fact at one time I considered moving my 360 into that Lian-Li case for better thermals (ultimately decided I didn't want to void my warranty once MS started replacing RROD for free). But it all leads to the same road, which is a console becoming more like a PC. I already think the current generation is pushing that limit; consoles do not need a web browser, for example, in my opinion.

Do I wish MW2 ran at 1080p and 60-fps? Absolutely. Do I wish BC2 ran at 60-fps on my 360 (1080p would be nice too)? You bet your ass. But I'm not willing to sacrifice the fact that every time I get on XBL, I know everyone's using the same hardware, same controller, and getting approximately (difference in TVs and internet aside) the same experience. It levels the playing field. Once we start dabbling with RAM packs and such, we lose that.
 

madeuce

Member
Jul 22, 2010
194
0
0
I don't think the next gen is going to matter all that much. Graphics could be better in all 3 systems, but the eye candy effect wears off on me quick.

State of games is sad right now. It was nice that Wii brought something a little different to the table this gen but I didn't get into the whole motion control that much.

With sony and ms trying to copy a little bit of the wii's success I don't see them doing anything innovative in the near future.

After playing since the Atari, it just seems like I've played every game out there. There hasn't been a whole lot of games that I can play more than a few hours without getting the feeling that I've played the game through a few times.

If the next gen consoles are priced as lame as the 360/ps3 when they came out it's not going to matter to me anyway. /shrug
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
The Wii has the best gaming hardware of this generation. There will most likely be a new generation console from Nintendo with hi def output.

MS and Sony are both just repackaging the current generation, a key indicator they don't have plans for a new console. And there's little incentive to develop one.

wiis are a piece if shit. what is up with those gay nun chuck controllers.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Respectfully, if you want to upgrade your gaming experience so badly, why are you so focused on consoles? Unified components has always been the strength/weakness of the console platform. Flexibility has always been the strength/weakness of the PC. If we start making consoles with expandable RAM, replaceable GPUs, etc, at what point does it stop? Suddenly consoles will start costing $500-$600 instead of $300-$400. They'd have to make the system more accessible from a hardware standpoint, which would increase size, making them closer to a HTPC-size. Do really care? No, and in fact at one time I considered moving my 360 into that Lian-Li case for better thermals (ultimately decided I didn't want to void my warranty once MS started replacing RROD for free). But it all leads to the same road, which is a console becoming more like a PC. I already think the current generation is pushing that limit; consoles do not need a web browser, for example, in my opinion.

Do I wish MW2 ran at 1080p and 60-fps? Absolutely. Do I wish BC2 ran at 60-fps on my 360 (1080p would be nice too)? You bet your ass. But I'm not willing to sacrifice the fact that every time I get on XBL, I know everyone's using the same hardware, same controller, and getting approximately (difference in TVs and internet aside) the same experience. It levels the playing field. Once we start dabbling with RAM packs and such, we lose that.

Several reasons why I'm moved to consoles:

1 - The online experience is vastly superior. The unified service of xbox live blows away the patchwork mess than the PC has become. Not to mention all my friends are on consoles, and I prefer playing with friends than strangers.

2- I put in a game, and it works. Im tired of tweaking, patching, downloading drivers etc. I'm tired of games crashing, and I'm tired of being forced to wait 30 minutes to play a game I just bought to do a mandatory install. The DRM on new PC games is becoming so ridiculous that it's a total deterrent.

3- My HT setup blows away my PC setup.

4- Consoles have become so dominant that the PC games are quickly becoming 2nd rate ports.

Perfect example of all of the above is the last PC game I purchased - fallout 3. The install took FOREVER. I had to install the GFW live helper program, which was yet another thing constantly running on my system. The game constantly crashed. I had to go out and find the patch, manually download and install it. All very annoying.

I put in the 360 disc, turned it on, and it told me there was a patch. Downloaded and installed in seconds. Was in the game in under a minute.

The difference in the end was that the PC version looked absolutely amazing, and the 360 version looked.....ok. Load times were near instantaneous on my SSD, load times on the 360 made me question whether I really wanted to open that door.

I personally wouldnt be bothered by the fact that other people might have better hardware than me - I'd like nothing more than to upgrade the innards of the 360, and then I'd be happy enough with current games. Until then theyll have to do, but theres definitely something missing.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
if you have a large HDD you can just load your games onto it to elmiminate the loading issues with the Xbox

as for new systems. i don't think we really need them. the only thing that happens when we get new consoles is everyone gets stupid with graphics for the first year and makes great looking games that play like a piece of cold dog shit. graphics are absolutely last on the list of things that contribute to game enjoyment. the Wii is doing so well because they realized this, and made games that were fun to play and had a new motion mechanic. their games don't look bad, but they aren't pushing the envelope.

as other posters have said game devs have a limited budget and too much of it is already spent on making everything look shiny and game play suffers
 
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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Unfortunately installing the games on a small, slow laptop drive is only marginally better than playing straight from the disc. Some games manage to figure out how to minimize load times, but a ton don't...I don't like anything that takes me out of the game.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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That's not an argument against voice acting, that's an argument against bad voice acting.
...

Good voice acting is something I wish Nintendo added to their games, I don't think the lack of it is a hardware issue though.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,095
460
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I already put my money where my mouth is by being a consumer. I'd LOVE to give my money to the first company that comes out with the next gen and impresses me with what they have to show, be it MS, Sony, Nintendo, or anyone else.

You might want to talk to all the Dreamcast owners who got jacksh** and screwed when it was dropped after less than 2 years. They loved being out the $300+ for the console and $50+ for extra controlers when games stopped being made for it almost before it was even on the market. It sure beat the competing systems at the time, only to get trumped a year or two later and all support thrown out the window.

Or you might want to talk to the people who bought the Virtual Boy, or the NeoGeo. Or any of a ton of failed consoles because they we the early adopter and the market as a whole was not ready or interested in them, and as such, they died within a year or two.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,095
460
126
Good voice acting is something I wish Nintendo added to their games, I don't think the lack of it is a hardware issue though.

Good voice acting is something I wish ALL developers were add to their games. It isn't a hardware issue. Its due to the way the game industry tells the actors what to do (or in most cases doesn't tell them). For the most part, the voice actor does not receive any "script" of the overall game story, has no idea how to put lines into any kind of context, is given a list of 100-200 sentences that they read off one at a time in no useful order (like 10-20 each different grunts, death yells, taunts, etc.,etc.). The actor has no chance to "create the character", as they in many cases don't even see gameplay of where that voice-over will be used. At least in animation, the actor's get a minimum of the storyboards for the scene to have an idea of what is going on, but that doesn't even happen in many games, even in the cutscenes where storyboards at least exist.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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I'd have to talk to myself then. I loved the dreamcast. Thought it was awesome when it came out, soul calibur, crazy taxi and powerstone were sweet. Still even have mine hooked up.

It had a good run, and I was more than happy to bring the ps2 and gamecube home as well when they came out. I honestly can't say I feel screwed by a system with so many great games even if it had a short run.

The neogeo are virtual boy are bad examples because one was horrifically expensive and the other was completely absurd, but I get what you're saying.

I completely understand I'm not the norm on this and the poll more than demonstrates it, but I'd LOVE a new console every 2-3 years. I'd happily spend the money.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I'm not saying the Dreamcast was bad, but the early adopters got the shaft on it. I bought one.....for $25 after it was discontinued for a year or two.... But I knew that I was buying into a failed system with no more games to ever be made for it (aside from any indy/homebrew projects).
 

arredondo

Senior member
Sep 17, 2004
825
37
91
All things theyve dealt with before at the end/beginning of each cycle. Theyve managed before, they'll manage again. I'm not going to shed a tear for them when the results are better looking and playing games, like with every other cycle. I'm looking at GT 5 and Crysis 2, and I'm thinking "I've seen this before". I'm not blown away. I want to be blown away again.

Wait, you've seen driving games as sweet as this before?

You've seen open world action games as cool as this before?

Seriously, no game maker in the world can keep up with your unreasonable expectations. Fantastic looking titles coming out now take years to make costing tens of millions of dollars and you STILL yawn? Do you think high level visuals and performance is a simple snap of the fingers?

Your attitude shows you will never be satisfied, even when the next gen comes. You will be right here not long after they launch whining that nothing "blows you away". If only they made games that can do 'X' or 'Y' or whatever your arbitrary standard is since YOU don't have to make 'em.

For those that do make games, you keep ignoring that costs have gone WAY up for new mega-titles while profits have stagnated. You can not keep expecting the normal cycle of console upgrades because that model no longer generates the revenues to sustain such a quick turnover. Please, try to stay in the real world instead of begging for the impossible.

A lot of money can be made on budgets 10x smaller than those needed for tech-impressive PS3/X360 games when companies focus on iPhone/iPad/Android/DS/3DS etc. And you want to introduce PS4/X720 so they start all over, spend more money and make even LESS? That's madness.

See but thats the thing - I AM relatively happy. I am satisfied. I want to be MORE than satisfied. I want to be impressed, blown away. I want to see a game and think to myself "I've never seen anything like that before". Like the way you felt seeing that Killzone 2 trailer, even though it was a bullshot. The way the first gears of war dropped and there was nothing like it. I look at gears 3, and it looks the damn same as gears 1. I cant think of a SINGLE GAME coming out this xmas that isnt a direct sequel or some completely derivative garbage. Other than kinect/move, but those are DOA to me.

I want to see them step it up, and I am ready to pay for the privilege. Someone out there has gotta be with me!

Don't lie. This entire moan and groan thread (now two of them I see) is about how you are not satisfied and are not happy. And why do you change the subject here complaining about sequels. If Crysis 4 was shown own X720 hardware looking 3x as good as Crysis 3, you'd be gushing according to all of your posts here.

Original/sequel complaints are another topic. Besides, there's nothing technical stopping new IPs from coming out. However they are a bigger financial risk so they won't show that often.
 
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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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First you're telling me my expectations are too high, and I'll never be satisfied. Then you quote me saying I'm satisfied, but not impressed, and then you call me a liar.

WTF was the point of all that then? Are you trying to prove to me that I'm not really satisfied, despite the fact that I say I am? Or that I should never, ever look forward to something better?
 

arredondo

Senior member
Sep 17, 2004
825
37
91
You are not satisfied with the quality of the games made today, you are not impressed with the games made today. Your posts in this thread alone proves that, and by stating otherwise you aren't being honest.