Are we deserving of our wealth?

[Stunt]

I've wanted to do this discussion for quite a while; it covers many topics and doesn't get much attention in these forums.

Considering we are all here discussing through the internet, we can assume on the global scale we are in the very upper percentile of wealth. We have inherited this wealth from our ancestors making sacrifices as well as just plain luck being born into certain regions less prone to disease, famine, drought and the like. We as forum members feel it is paramount for all citizens in the domestic sense to have access to education, but education for all seems to stop at our borders.

We, members of the first world are spoiled and are given far more than we deserve. There are bright people around the world with the capability with education to achieve what we have and more. Unfortunately you have slackers and unmotivated people in the first world becoming far better off than the best and brightest of the third world.

Personally I am a big fan of aggressive free trade and reduced government subsidies for domestic operations (manufacturing, farming, etc). It is my feeling that if anyone in the world can offer a skill, product or service for cheaper; they deserve the business and we should not try to prop up the less deserving through subsidies, trade barriers, and tariffs. Unfortunately I feel disgusted with this part of political party platforms as Liberal parties tend not to know economics and try to hold businesses here through law and doing more harm to the economy than good. The conservatives in more recent history have been caving to big domestic companies and special interests to create free trade and sanctions as they see fit. During the Bush years we have seen steel tariffs, mad cow restrictions, lumber disputes, pharma and countless other issues where companies are held above the free market and trade.

I do feel we are part of a global community and our domestic pride is holding us back with regards to breaking down walls, becoming equals and making place of birth a mere insignificance. We have lots of great things to offer the world, and similarly the rest of the world has a lot to offer us, what makes us so special that we shouldn't open our boarders and share the wealth? We could have just as easily been born into India and other places around the world, are we deserving of what we have? How do you propose we progress the human race; or should we just be concerned with our own backyard?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Do I feel as though I deserve my wealth? No. Do I do my best to make the most of my wealth? No. Does that bother me? No.

Am I honest? Yes.

 

[Duckzilla]

Should we feel guilty because we were blessed or lucky? No.

Do I want the world to share my wealth? Of course, but not at my expense.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Should we feel guilty because we were blessed or lucky? No.

Do I want the world to share my wealth? Of course, but not at my expense.

Is free trade at your expense?
Is outsourcing?
Aid?
War?

 

[Duckzilla]

Yes, yes, no and in my case, yes.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla
Yes, yes, no and in my case, yes.

War = Aid is it not?

 

[Duckzilla]

"This" war is draining money from American military bases. That's a job I can't get. Aid to poor countries isn't paid by the Defense Dept.

 

[johnnobts]

i think we have been both blessed and cursed by our wealth. its become a real stumbling block for the churches in america, b/c we have begun to worship the all mighty dollar above the almighty. material things are passing, and as they say, you can't take it with you. God is the great equalizer in the end, isn't he?


On the subject of wealth, I find it amusing that most of us spend half of our lives trying to accumulate wealth, often sacrificing our health, and then the other half of our lives spending our wealth trying to remain healthy, when, in the end, neither one are lasting.

 

[Duckzilla]

Wrong, death is.

God and religion is the reason we are fighting.

edit

Well, the main reason anyway. We *may* be driven by oil and a texan president who's state depends on oil, but the muslims are driven by pure hate and religeous intolerance. Which is worse? Tough choice, lol.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Do I feel as though I deserve my wealth? No. Do I do my best to make the most of my wealth? No. Does that bother me? No.

Am I honest? Yes.

Agreed. It seems to me the problem with most countries is that can't get along with themselves. Guess what, no one can do that but them.

 

[daveshel]

We do not deserve to consume the majority of the world's resources just because we were first to figure out how to do it.

We did not deverve to take our land from those who lived on the North American continent before we came here, and our justifications shame me. We 'discovered' this place like somebody 'discovered' my car from my driveway in the middle of the night. And "manifest destiny" is not that far from the 9/11 hijackers' belief that their actions would get them a place in Heaven.

It is no wonder the 'captains' of industry are known today as the "robber barons." The wealth they brought our nation came with exploitation that led to the mixed blessings of labor unions and Social Security.

Most of all, we do not deserve to hold power that we maintain by meddling in the affairs of soverign nations, be they banana republics or oil-rich mideast countries, to say nothing of the killing.

If I didn't have a responsibility to the land of my birth to honor the great opportunity we have had of proving the viability of self rule, I would listed to the small-minded call to love it or leave it. But my responsibility is to be a part of fixing it, so that I will do.

 

[Duckzilla]

Originally posted by: daveshel
We do not deserve to consume the majority of the world's resources just because we were first to figure out how to do it.

We did not deverve to take our land from those who lived on the North American continent before we came here, and our justifications shame me. We 'discovered' this place like somebody 'discovered' my car from my driveway in the middle of the night. And "manifest destiny" is not that far from the 9/11 hijackers' belief that their actions would get them a place in Heaven.

It is no wonder the 'captains' of industry are known today as the "robber barons." The wealth they brought our nation came with exploitation that led to the mixed blessings of labor unions and Social Security.

Most of all, we do not deserve to hold power that we maintain by meddling in the affairs of soverign nations, be they banana republics or oil-rich mideast countries, to say nothing of the killing.

If I didn't have a responsibility to the land of my birth to honor the great opportunity we have had of proving the viability of self rule, I would listed to the small-minded call to love it or leave it. But my responsibility is to be a part of fixing it, so that I will do.

Its not a question of deserving, but of feeling guilty about it. If it wasn't us, it would be someone else.

Lets not feel guilty.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Duckzilla

Originally posted by: daveshel
We do not deserve to consume the majority of the world's resources just because we were first to figure out how to do it.

We did not deverve to take our land from those who lived on the North American continent before we came here, and our justifications shame me. We 'discovered' this place like somebody 'discovered' my car from my driveway in the middle of the night. And "manifest destiny" is not that far from the 9/11 hijackers' belief that their actions would get them a place in Heaven.

It is no wonder the 'captains' of industry are known today as the "robber barons." The wealth they brought our nation came with exploitation that led to the mixed blessings of labor unions and Social Security.

Most of all, we do not deserve to hold power that we maintain by meddling in the affairs of soverign nations, be they banana republics or oil-rich mideast countries, to say nothing of the killing.

If I didn't have a responsibility to the land of my birth to honor the great opportunity we have had of proving the viability of self rule, I would listed to the small-minded call to love it or leave it. But my responsibility is to be a part of fixing it, so that I will do.

Its not a question of deserving, but of feeling guilty about it. If it wasn't us, it would be someone else.

Lets not feel guilty.

I agree. Feeling guilty is counterproductive. Let's clean up our act and start setting a good example for the world. We can start by bringing Bush to justice along with Saddam.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Do I feel as though I deserve my wealth? No. Do I do my best to make the most of my wealth? No. Does that bother me? No.

Am I honest? Yes.

The truth.

 

[Legend]

For most poeple in America, no they do not deserve the wealth. Far too many people are consumer whores and live beyond their means and are into their necks in debt. They just have to have a new car every few years, and have a huge house, and a home theater with a wall filled up with DVDs, several of them unwatched in their original packaging. It's really sick.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Legend
For most poeple in America, no they do not deserve the wealth. Far too many people are consumer whores and live beyond their means and are into their necks in debt. They just have to have a new car every few years, and have a huge house, and a home theater with a wall filled up with DVDs, several of them unwatched in their original packaging. It's really sick.

Wow, you just accurately described a small portion of the American public. Congratulations, you'll find people like this in every rich country.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Legend
For most poeple in America, no they do not deserve the wealth. Far too many people are consumer whores and live beyond their means and are into their necks in debt. They just have to have a new car every few years, and have a huge house, and a home theater with a wall filled up with DVDs, several of them unwatched in their original packaging. It's really sick.

Wow, you just accurately described a small portion of the American public. Congratulations, you'll find people like this in every rich country.

I'm not so sure I would call it a small portion. The US population is going credit wild and buying everything they can, regardless of their means. Credit card debt is going through the roof as well as bankruptcy (hence the new laws lobbied by the credit card companies).

Of course, to the OP...I don't know if we deserve it or not, but like most peoples of the world, we'll always try to keep our standard of living on the rise and at the very least, from dropping. (me included)

 

[alchemize]

Stunt,

Here's the question I've asked before (and researched myself and never quite found the answer for it either).

If we were to "redistribute" the world's wealth - how much would each of the planets 6 billion inhabitants get?

 

[Genx87]

I would say our country earned it.

We bankrolled Europe after spending trillions to fight WWII. We rebuilt Japan after decimating two of their cities.

We spend more than any other country on Earth in govt aid and twice that much in private donations.

Anytime another country wants to step upto the plate they can go right ahead.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I do feel we are part of a global community and our domestic pride is holding us back with regards to breaking down walls, becoming equals and making place of birth a mere insignificance. We have lots of great things to offer the world, and similarly the rest of the world has a lot to offer us, what makes us so special that we shouldn't open our boarders and share the wealth? We could have just as easily been born into India and other places around the world, are we deserving of what we have? How do you propose we progress the human race; or should we just be concerned with our own backyard?

Your post assumes that free trade will help the third world, yet the existing first world countries like the US, UK, and Japan built their strong economies under highly protectionist trade regimes. The same type of protectionism was also used by the East Asian economies to grow strong after WW2 like South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

It's also worth examining the actual content of free trade agreements instead of listening to the rhetoric of free trade. Many of these agreements give extensive power over national economies to nongovernmental organizations (which is why no US President would sign GATT until Clinton), and many agreements are strongly focused on limiting free trade by imposing US copyright laws which enforce technologies like DRM so corporations can impose ideas like region coding to prevent their products from being traded globally, while enjoying the benefits of global labor markets and natural resources.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Stunt,

Here's the question I've asked before (and researched myself and never quite found the answer for it either).

If we were to "redistribute" the world's wealth - how much would each of the planets 6 billion inhabitants get?

I agree with your point in saying that sharing our wealth would be counter-productive in that we would effectivly be sending money and aid overseas and lowering our standard of living. (way more poor people in the world than the few on welfare domestically)

My point is opening our borders to allow other companies and countries to compete on a level playing field. This would not lower our standard of living as more competition would lower prices, create more employment globally and of course we have a massive headstart with our education systems and the importing of the best scientists.

The big question is whether you think the US got rich off the backs of other countries or by generating wealth on its own. If you think it was off the backs of other countries, opening free trade to other countries would in fact move our wealth to other countries. If you think wealth was created domestically, it is not irrational to say the third world can start generating wealth while we continue to grow.

It is my view that economic development in the form of outsourcing will do far more for a poor country than any form of aid or donations. I am very much anti-aid but fully support free trade and outsourcing, it's like aid but they get jobs, raise their standard of living, we get cheaper goods, their economy becomes sustainable, etc.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: cquark
Your post assumes that free trade will help the third world, yet the existing first world countries like the US, UK, and Japan built their strong economies under highly protectionist trade regimes. The same type of protectionism was also used by the East Asian economies to grow strong after WW2 like South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

No isolationist country is doing well at the moment, all the countries growing are opening their borders to trade and taking down borders. The communist countries have proven how trade borders do not work and we should not endorse such actions.

 

[Bigwoofer]

Interview with a suicide bomber on bbc

The problem isn't Islam, it's very, very few making a huge mess. It's unreal. In an article on msnbc was an interview with a suicide bomber. How do you interview a suicide bomber? When they are on a bus in Isreal, stand up, rip their jacket off and pull the detonator cord.

Why didn't it go off? "god didn't want him to die"

Why did he want to blow up a bunch of women and children? "I wanted to be relieved of school."

 

[judasmachine]

I don't have much. I rent my house, and my g/f and I have two cars (one of which needs a transmission, but will get it soon), I run a small business, I have food in my fridge, and I pay my utilities. But I'm living better than 80% of the world. But ya know what? I'm completely happy with my financial situation. I don't see the point in killing my back, or sticking daggers in others's backs to get more. Maybe I'll buy a house someday, maybe not. It really doesn't bother me.

As to us deserving this, well I just don't really think the ends justify the means. Who pays the price, well everyone "under" you. We like to sit in our Ivory Towers and pontificate on how we are so much better than everyone else, but stick a knife in us and we bleed the same color. That guy who works in the cubicle next to you is looking how to cockblock you just as you are him, is this anyway to live?

And all that "better than the alternative" rhetoric is really wearing thin. We only know a couple of alternatives, some have worked, some are working, and some are dying a slow miserable death. We need to come together and work out a solution that satisfies our emotions, and our intellect.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: cquark
Your post assumes that free trade will help the third world, yet the existing first world countries like the US, UK, and Japan built their strong economies under highly protectionist trade regimes. The same type of protectionism was also used by the East Asian economies to grow strong after WW2 like South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

No isolationist country is doing well at the moment, all the countries growing are opening their borders to trade and taking down borders. The communist countries have proven how trade borders do not work and we should not endorse such actions.

The history of all successful major economies shows that protectionism works wonders when you're starting an economy. It's the only way that any country has ever created a modern, successful industrialized economy. After a strong home economy has been built, then countries have advocated various types of free trade to expand their overseas markets, but none started from that point and succeeded. Communist economies have problems other than protecting their own industries that prevented them from succeeding.