Question are video card prices headed down yet?

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
53,783
8,019
126
Nobody is required to be able to run a game at 100+ fps. Life continues as always with your old video card that runs the same damn game at 30 fps on medium settings.

I am prepared to be down voted.
Well, that's an interesting, and in a certain way, logical, take on things.

These are, after all, "luxury goods", and not essential staples.

I guess the idea that these luxury good "opportunistic re-sellers" are scalpers in the eyes of gamers, in whose delusional, warped minds, GPUs are as necessary to life as food and water, and they feel that they are entitled to them, that they should be provided to them in a controlled pricing matter.
 

dlerious

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2004
1,300
396
136
I hate this “scalper” talk.
IMO to scalp something it really needs to be something that MUST be had. Like baby food or gas after a blizzard or hurricane or tornado.
The idea that one can scalp a video card which is made to play games, not power a monitor for a business or home machine is a perversion of the word “scalping”.
Nobody is required to be able to run a game at 100+ fps. Life continues as always with your old video card that runs the same damn game at 30 fps on medium settings.

I am prepared to be down voted.
Merriam Webster says otherwise. Definition #3 when used as a transitive verb.
 
Feb 4, 2009
32,346
12,868
136
Merriam Webster says otherwise. Definition #3 when used as a transitive verb.
It sure does and by its definition pretty much any modern business is “scalping” reselling a product quickly to make a profit. This certainly is Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, Nordstroms, any fast casual food place. The definition is extremely broad.
I am a gamer, I have wanted a new monitor for at least two years. Price of a decent card to drive a new monitor is absurd. The card purchase alone breaks my budget and using a 3080 on a 1050 monitor at 59hrtz is dumb.
Point is nearly nobody needs a 3080 beside some photoshop or digital art people, some people who do oddball calculations and so on. I agree a 3080 is a premier gaming experience however the two or three year old card is likely a perfectly fine gaming experience, to say you must have a 3080 to game is simply setting the bar far too high.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dvsv

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,463
2,563
136
I hate this “scalper” talk.
IMO to scalp something it really needs to be something that MUST be had. Like baby food or gas after a blizzard or hurricane or tornado.
The idea that one can scalp a video card which is made to play games, not power a monitor for a business or home machine is a perversion of the word “scalping”.
Nobody is required to be able to run a game at 100+ fps. Life continues as always with your old video card that runs the same damn game at 30 fps on medium settings.

I am prepared to be down voted.
.

"A scalper, in the context of market supply-demand theory, also refers to a person who buys large quantities of in-demand items, such as new electronics or event tickets, at regular price, hoping that the items sell out. The scalper then resells the items at a higher price".

Of course GPUs can be scalped. That's the only way to buy them anymore; from a scalper. You seem to be referring to price gouging. They don't just buy large quantities of in-demand items, they buy ALL of the in-demand items that are for sale. It happens with designer shoes a lot.
During this recent GPU shortage, 99% of everyone who would normally be a gamer turned into a scalper. They said "screw gaming" and went for the $2000 profit from buying up entire Best Buy drops, botting attacks, etc.

.

"Price gouging occurs when a seller increases the prices of goods, services, or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. Common examples include price increases of basic necessities after natural disasters".

Price gouging is when people charge $25.00 for a gallon of milk before a hurricane hits.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,488
675
136
Why are authorities not tracking down scalpers and send them to prison?

In all my years of working in merchant companies, I've learned that in order to be a merchant, you need to have a specific permit, often followed by other qualifications, like ISO's etc.

So how are these bastards left alone?
 
  • Love
Reactions: igor_kavinski

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
53,783
8,019
126
Why are authorities not tracking down scalpers and send them to prison?

In all my years of working in merchant companies, I've learned that in order to be a merchant, you need to have a specific permit, often followed by other qualifications, like ISO's etc.

So how are these bastards left alone?
First sale doctrine. Here in the USA, for the most part, if it's a tangible good, if you can buy it on the open market, you can re-sell it on the open market, legally. You don't need a reseller license to use ebay, craigslist, offerup, etc.


Now run along little socialist gamer, and find some commie country with a top-down command economy to take you in and provide gpus for you at subsidized rates.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,865
2,332
106
Why are authorities not tracking down scalpers and send them to prison?

In all my years of working in merchant companies, I've learned that in order to be a merchant, you need to have a specific permit, often followed by other qualifications, like ISO's etc.

So how are these bastards left alone?
That's why GPUs need to have blockchain tech embedded in them for chain of custody. Show how many times the GPU has changed hands and also how much it has been used by who.

Things have gone from serious gamers to insane miners. A miner stresses a GPU far more than a gamer so even buying used GPUs after they flood the market due to crypto crash will still mean getting something with lower usable life. Solder joints may come loose due to past thermal stresses, capacitors may leak/burst or fans may fail prematurely. I'm sure no one wants any of these things happening to their $400 used entry level GPU, let alone the expensive ones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psolord

Whirlwind

Senior member
Nov 4, 2006
538
15
81
.

"A scalper, in the context of market supply-demand theory, also refers to a person who buys large quantities of in-demand items, such as new electronics or event tickets, at regular price, hoping that the items sell out. The scalper then resells the items at a higher price".

Of course GPUs can be scalped. That's the only way to buy them anymore; from a scalper. You seem to be referring to price gouging. They don't just buy large quantities of in-demand items, they buy ALL of the in-demand items that are for sale. It happens with designer shoes a lot.
During this recent GPU shortage, 99% of everyone who would normally be a gamer turned into a scalper. They said "screw gaming" and went for the $2000 profit from buying up entire Best Buy drops, botting attacks, etc.

.

"Price gouging occurs when a seller increases the prices of goods, services, or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. Common examples include price increases of basic necessities after natural disasters".

Price gouging is when people charge $25.00 for a gallon of milk before a hurricane hits.

I have to ask after reading a lot of comments.....where do you get your numbers from ?
"99% of everyone who would normally be a gamer turned into a scalper"....just interested where this number came from ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dvsv

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,024
3,184
136
Is there a prevailing opinion on how long a 'scalper' keeps inventory before needing to sell?

With pretty much 0% interest loans (changing now), the cost of inventory is nil. With such an insane monetary policy, does anyone really think 'scalpers' are not an inherent property of such a system.

If, and as, the Fed raises rates, I predict that scalping will fade away. 0% really is a monstrosity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dvsv

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,488
675
136
First sale doctrine. Here in the USA, for the most part, if it's a tangible good, if you can buy it on the open market, you can re-sell it on the open market, legally. You don't need a reseller license to use ebay, craigslist, offerup, etc.


Now run along little socialist gamer, and find some commie country with a top-down command economy to take you in and provide gpus for you at subsidized rates.
I couldn't care less what idiocy is the normal, there in the US. You sell guns in donut shops, measure things in feet, legs, hands and stadium lengths, charge an arm and a leg for insulin shots and most people are one broken leg away from bankruptcy thanks to your stupid medical system.

Selling some items you own is normal in all countries. Doing this repeatedly makes you a professional and moves you to a different taxing segment. I mean your IRS sees an individual repeatedly buying and selling stuff without the individual being on a specific taxing/professional segment and it's OK?

If your laws allow unlawfulness, it's your problem really. You cannot possibly have a lawfully abiding merchant on equal taxing terms with any idiot that decides to be a merchant without a shop.

Comie country in the EU? Don't think so.
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,215
556
126
That's why GPUs need to have blockchain tech embedded in them for chain of custody. Show how many times the GPU has changed hands and also how much it has been used by who.

Things have gone from serious gamers to insane miners. A miner stresses a GPU far more than a gamer so even buying used GPUs after they flood the market due to crypto crash will still mean getting something with lower usable life. Solder joints may come loose due to past thermal stresses, capacitors may leak/burst or fans may fail prematurely. I'm sure no one wants any of these things happening to their $400 used entry level GPU, let alone the expensive ones.
So, I've thought about this a bit lately. I don't care about chain of custody, but I would like something equivalent to SMART monitoring for these expensive GPUs. Maybe power on hours, average temperature, percentage of time above 90% utilization, etc.
 
Feb 4, 2009
32,346
12,868
136
I couldn't care less what idiocy is the normal, there in the US. You sell guns in donut shops, measure things in feet, legs, hands and stadium lengths, charge an arm and a leg for insulin shots and most people are one broken leg away from bankruptcy thanks to your stupid medical system.

Selling some items you own is normal in all countries. Doing this repeatedly makes you a professional and moves you to a different taxing segment. I mean your IRS sees an individual repeatedly buying and selling stuff without the individual being on a specific taxing/professional segment and it's OK?

If your laws allow unlawfulness, it's your problem really. You cannot possibly have a lawfully abiding merchant on equal taxing terms with any idiot that decides to be a merchant without a shop.

Comie country in the EU? Don't think so.
simply put the laws you are suggesting for the US do not exist and would cause unknown chaos among businesses big & small, plus there would be a need for federal, state and local enforcement of such laws which currently does not exist.
Far too much effort would need to be made so gamers can buy a gaming card at a reasonable price.
 
Feb 4, 2009
32,346
12,868
136
For about a year and a half, I kept hearing that video card prices were high due to the pandemic. Now that folks have their shots, folks are going out to concerts & such again,
have prices started edging back down any meaningful amount?
they are down from insane prices, they are instock provided you have no specific brand loyalty. They still sell for above retail.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,865
2,332
106
So, I've thought about this a bit lately. I don't care about chain of custody, but I would like something equivalent to SMART monitoring for these expensive GPUs. Maybe power on hours, average temperature, percentage of time above 90% utilization, etc.
And the first one to do something like that is most likely AMD, if enough gamers chime in on their forums/reddit etc.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,865
2,332
106
simply put the laws you are suggesting for the US do not exist and would cause unknown chaos among businesses big & small, plus there would be a need for federal, state and local enforcement of such laws which currently does not exist.
Far too much effort would need to be made so gamers can buy a gaming card at a reasonable price.
It's not just about gaming cards. This is basically hoarding for the sake of artificially reducing the supply of product, increasing its demand and then overcharging for profit. It could happen with any product if this behavior is left unchecked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psolord
Feb 4, 2009
32,346
12,868
136
It's not just about gaming cards. This is basically hoarding for the sake of artificially reducing the supply of product, increasing its demand and then overcharging for profit. It could happen with any product if this behavior is left unchecked.
that’s market manipulation and the US had laws for that
I just don’t agree that is happening market wide.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,024
3,184
136
I'd say it more depends on what the return policy is. If you can't sell it for over what you paid, then just return it.
I don't live in the US or Europe, but if what you say is true, then a small restocking fee for non-defective items will eliminate the small scale 'scalper'. Large scale ones with millions in stock will be controlled by rising interest rates.

What I see is that the traditional stores are using the scalping community to themselves profit hugely from this. After all, eBay and the normal retail outlets are not by some law of nature identical.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,024
3,184
136
It's not just about gaming cards. This is basically hoarding for the sake of artificially reducing the supply of product, increasing its demand and then overcharging for profit. It could happen with any product if this behavior is left unchecked.
Don't you understand that this can ONLY work in a zero/negative interest rate policy? Does anyone think that an entity can simply lock up whatever, for however long, if there are costs involved? Your governments are causing this and you don't even realize it.

Scalping is just one creation of flawed monetary policy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psolord

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,660
3,546
136
Don't you understand that this can ONLY work in a zero/negative interest rate policy? Does anyone think that an entity can simply lock up whatever, for however long, if there are costs involved? Your governments are causing this and you don't even realize it.

Scalping is just one creation of flawed monetary policy.
Where are you getting this? No individual is getting zero/negative interest rates for unsecured (or hell, even secured) loans (outside certain financing options, and then it is some company taking a risk to sell a product, not something you could buy video cards with). Why would any for profit organization offer zero percent cash loans?

The best I can tell you are talking about the Federal Interest Rate, and that only goes for Banks borrowing from other Banks or the Federal Reserve.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scineram

PlanetLockdownFilm

Junior Member
Mar 2, 2022
11
1
11
Scalping seems more like a fringe phenomenon to me, and tough we had that at the start and still have it to some extent, the question is of supply and demand, so the whole market has changed for now. Also, I would guess that prices once they go up tend to stay up unless some big changes drive them down. Say I was selling shoes for $100 a pair, and I discover that I can sell them for $200, because people are into shoes and will buy them anyway. Unless I start losing money I won't drop my prices just because supply is back up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scineram

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,660
3,546
136
that’s market manipulation and the US had laws for that
I just don’t agree that is happening market wide.
Agree. For it to be market manipulation it would have to be organized and intentional. That would be the case if say, Intel, was buying up all the AMD and NVIDIA cards and reselling them at a markup so that when Intel releases their new video card they can easily undercut the completion. That would be market manipulation. A bunch of people realizing that video cards are massively underpriced for the current market and buying them as fast as they can is not market manipulation, it is just normal consumerism. Literally the capitalism working as designed.
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,865
2,332
106
Also, I would guess that prices once they go up tend to stay up unless some big changes drive them down. Say I was selling shoes for $100 a pair, and I discover that I can sell them for $200, because people are into shoes and will buy them anyway. Unless I start losing money I won't drop my prices just because supply is back up.
That's where competition comes in. More sellers enter the market. Some sellers, in order to move units more quickly, start reducing the prices while keeping them above the cost price. Unless all the sellers are in collusion, a price war will start, leading to best prices for the consumers. But what's happening now, is that the few sellers(scalpers) are quickly taking up whatever stock becomes available. The manufacturers/distributors don't care who the stock goes to as long as the units keep moving.

One guy told me that the scalpers have contacts at the major stores. As soon as product enters the warehouse, they get a call to come and pick it up even before the product hits the shelves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psolord
Feb 4, 2009
32,346
12,868
136
Agree. For it to be market manipulation it would have to be organized and intentional. That would be the case if say, Intel, was buying up all the AMD and NVIDIA cards and reselling them at a markup so that when Intel releases their new video card they can easily undercut the completion. That would be market manipulation. A bunch of people realizing that video cards are massively underpriced for the current market and buying them as fast as they can is not market manipulation, it is just normal consumerism. Literally the capitalism working as designed.
well said
 

igor_kavinski

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2020
3,865
2,332
106
A bunch of people realizing that video cards are massively underpriced for the current market and buying them as fast as they can is not market manipulation, it is just normal consumerism. Literally the capitalism working as designed.
A bunch of people may also realize that other things people need are also underpriced because some people are more able to shield themselves against price increases than others. So suppose the price of bread triples. The rich will just shrug or at worst, grumble about it but the lower/middle class will get crushed because spending more on bread will not let them tend to their other expenses.

Gaming is not just a privilege for the rich. A gamer didn't need that much money before to start gaming. A $500 gaming PC with a low end GPU was still an optjon. Now that $500 pc includes only an anemic iGPU, leaving poor gamers to lower settings all the way down and suffer graphical ugliness akin to DirectX 8/9 era.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dvsv and psolord

ASK THE COMMUNITY