Question are video card prices headed down yet?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,308
10,028
126

"Even RX 580 cards are becoming profitable now."

EditL Sigh. I gave away most of my cards.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,308
10,028
126
Do you really believe the snake oil that he's selling? He got lucky with one speculation coin and even then he is almost certainly pretending that you can sell exactly at the peak of that coin.
You obviously didn't know what you were seeing. He went to hashrate.no, a well-known profit calculator, and of that filming, the RX 580 WAS PROFITABLE.

Had NOTHING to do with the semi-spec-mined coin that he mined with his 4x RX 6700 cards.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,571
5,202
136
Do you really believe the snake oil that he's selling? He got lucky with one speculation coin and even then he is almost certainly pretending that you can sell exactly at the peak of that coin.

True... but (when) the Fed starts cutting rates, it wouldn't be that surprising to see crypto hype come back. And thus mining.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,370
1,836
106
You obviously didn't know what you were seeing. He went to hashrate.no, a well-known profit calculator, and of that filming, the RX 580 WAS PROFITABLE.

Had NOTHING to do with the semi-spec-mined coin that he mined with his 4x RX 6700 cards.
I looked at the GPU mining reddit and they are all talking about spec mining being the only viable thing.

I trust that over cherry picked data. Who cares if mining one coin is profitable for a brief moment, until the other miners figure it out and jump on it? Mining a coin that is profitable for a day or two doesn't make for a sustainable mining operation.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,608
10,802
136
True... but (when) the Fed starts cutting rates, it wouldn't be that surprising to see crypto hype come back. And thus mining.
The crypto hype is already here.

You obviously didn't know what you were seeing. He went to hashrate.no, a well-known profit calculator, and of that filming, the RX 580 WAS PROFITABLE.
How profitable was it? CPU mining is en vogue as well. For awhile there, ZEPH was making like $3/day on a 3900X, and some of the niche ghostrider coins are close to that still. ZEPH has since collapsed in profitability (someone brought a ton of hashrate online and killed it), but ghostrider hasn't.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,370
1,836
106
The crypto hype is already here.


How profitable was it? CPU mining is en vogue as well. For awhile there, ZEPH was making like $3/day on a 3900X, and some of the niche ghostrider coins are close to that still. ZEPH has since collapsed in profitability (someone brought a ton of hashrate online and killed it), but ghostrider hasn't.
What hype? Just because mining rebounded a tiny bit from the lowest of the lows, doesn't mean that there is an actual hype.

And the problem with temporarily profitability is that you don't have any coin to sell yet, when the coin is actually profitable, when you start mining at that point. That is why these are speculation coins. You need to have mined already when the coin price goes up.

For example. Coin X sees higher demand because Musk said something about it, so the price goes up, because the only people who can sell the coin are 100 people who are mining it as speculation. Then 10,000 people see that it became profitable and they all switch their rigs to X. Then after those people mine their coins and flood the market with them, the price quickly drops to below profit. So all those late movers never get to sell at the higher price.

As far as I can tell, you have to put in a ton of effort to figure out which coins are temporarily profitable, follow the prices to know when to sell your coin stash, etc. If you look at the net income divided by the hours you need to put in, the income per hour has to be absolutely atrocious. And even then the market only supports a relatively small number of people doing this. The more people chase these low-demand coins, the worse everyone incomes are.

Completely different from the Ethereum days where the demand was so huge that the market could absorb a huge number of mined coins and miners didn't have to spend a ton of effort to track different coins and such.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,120
3,048
136
www.teamjuchems.com
Or, you can build an electric heater out of an old Antminer S9 (pretty easy, replaced fans and put in cheap ATX case for aesthetics) and mine BTC slow but sure. It's like $200 in parts. If you are paying for electric heat anyway, it's not hard.

Or get a big boy on 220V, there some folks pulling single boards out of those and powering them on 120V with great results just more work. Vastly more "profitable" if you get it tuned up. It might cover your electric heating bill and keep you warm in the winter.

The common thread there? No GPUs.

The true enemy of GPUs for us atm is AI & HPC. They are resetting margin expectations and providing vast, unending demand for the companies making GPUs and it makes our entire market look like small potatoes.

I think folks who never moved on or invested into massive GPUs at the wrong time want to manifest GPU mining back into "mainstream" but it's just done.
 
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blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,120
3,048
136
www.teamjuchems.com
What hype? Just because mining rebounded a tiny bit from the lowest of the lows, doesn't mean that there is an actual hype.

And the problem with temporarily profitability is that you don't have any coin to sell yet, when the coin is actually profitable, when you start mining at that point. That is why these are speculation coins. You need to have mined already when the coin price goes up.

For example. Coin X sees higher demand because Musk said something about it, so the price goes up, because the only people who can sell the coin are 100 people who are mining it as speculation. Then 10,000 people see that it became profitable and they all switch their rigs to X. Then after those people mine their coins and flood the market with them, the price quickly drops to below profit. So all those late movers never get to sell at the higher price.

As far as I can tell, you have to put in a ton of effort to figure out which coins are temporarily profitable, follow the prices to know when to sell your coin stash, etc. If you look at the net income divided by the hours you need to put in, the income per hour has to be absolutely atrocious. And even then the market only supports a relatively small number of people doing this. The more people chase these low-demand coins, the worse everyone incomes are.

Completely different from the Ethereum days where the demand was so huge that the market could absorb a huge number of mined coins and miners didn't have to spend a ton of effort to track different coins and such.
The altcoin ponzi schemes are all insider trading pump and dump garbage. Anyone plowing real money into these crazy s coins is buying the snake oil and you know what they say about fools and their money.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,669
3,786
136
$3 a day!? There are far easier ways to earn/save $3 a day. Not to mention it will heat up a room which could be beneficial for part of the year but then you spend money keeping it cool the rest of the time.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,608
10,802
136
What hype? Just because mining rebounded a tiny bit from the lowest of the lows, doesn't mean that there is an actual hype.

Prices are moving on some alts in a big way, and have been for about a month now. Even SOL has managed a rebound. Which is actually a bit surprising.

Completely different from the Ethereum days where the demand was so huge that the market could absorb a huge number of mined coins and miners didn't have to spend a ton of effort to track different coins and such.
That is true, but back then the market was a lot simpler (2016), and you could even buy used Hawaii cards and get solid returns on them in a few months. Mining has more participants now. Plus there are fleets of idled cards out there waiting for new things to mine, so as soon as something comes up they come on in force and then kill it from an economic perspective, sometimes in a matter of a few days (and then ASICs show up to put nails in the coffin).

Even ZEPH which was and still is a hot coin price-wise is now a dead-zone for mining, and it was CPU-only to start. Allegedly Bitmain may have reprogrammed the X5 to mine ZEPH, and if that's the case, it's over for most of the CPU miners, at least until someone forks randomx again.
 
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Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,370
1,836
106
4090s are going to be in very short supply for a long time despite the China ban. Paths into China still exist.
That doesn't make much sense because China clearly hugely increased their spending on these cards, which almost certainly means that they decided to pull their spending forward to beat the China ban deadline, buying cards that they would otherwise have bought in 2024 or later.

The logical result is then that they will not smuggle tons of cards into the country right now, when they already have more cards than they probably know what to do with. The more logical thing to do is to first see if they can even use the already bought cards and only start smuggling, which is risky and may even trigger a trade war if discovered, when they really need more cards.

Smuggling now is especially risky, given that the focus is still on this issue. If they do want to smuggle, it's smarter to do this later on, when most people forgot about the ban. In fact, if the 4090 shortage persists right now, that is a major red flag that indicates large scale smuggling and could trigger a thorough investigation by the US, which is not in the best interests of China.

There is also absolutely no reason to start smuggling now, because smuggling obviously doesn't care about official bans, because it is illegal anyway. So why would China start smuggling a ton of 4090s right now, when they can just start doing that later at a more opportune time?

Note that your story is bad journalism, as they only seem to have evidence of one scalper, but they claim that there are 'scalpers.' This is typical for unscrupulous clickbaity journalism.

Anyway, my prediction is that this trader will be in big trouble, not being able to shift these cards and that he will make a loss when getting rid of them.
 
Jul 27, 2020
16,120
10,181
106

So now what? Does nGreedia release 4090c (castrated version) with all tensor cores disabled for the Chinese market?

Does this mean Chinese gamers won't be able to use DLSS3?

Could this mean even higher prices for original 4090 cards?
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,345
1,164
136

So now what? Does nGreedia release 4090c (castrated version) with all tensor cores disabled for the Chinese market?

Does this mean Chinese gamers won't be able to use DLSS3?

Could this mean even higher prices for original 4090 cards?

All of the above? Oh what tangled webs Nvidia weaves when they practice to deceive.
 
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Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,370
1,836
106
So now what? Does nGreedia release 4090c (castrated version) with all tensor cores disabled for the Chinese market?

Does this mean Chinese gamers won't be able to use DLSS3?
The statement by the US Commerce Secretary shows that she doesn't understand how AI training & inference works, by saying that she wants to ban any cards that can be used for AI. After all, you can do both on a 3060, or even a 1060. Just less quick and a smaller model.

I also wonder if the government isn't breaking any laws if they state that they will change the regulations whenever a company makes a product that is designed to be legal. This seems like a text-book form of harassment of a company by the government, where the company spends money on a product and then each time, the government bans its sale.

Could this mean even higher prices for original 4090 cards?

The opposite, if anything, because if Nvidia does give up on selling AD102's to the Chinese market, the demand for that chip goes down.
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,078
2,558
136
Some claim people buy 4090s here and ship them to China
And that the price in China is high enough to justify the complications of doing all that.
 

Harry_Wild

Senior member
Dec 14, 2012
830
150
106
The video cards are actually going up in price now!😱 Should of purchase them in September-October!👍
 

Harry_Wild

Senior member
Dec 14, 2012
830
150
106
Ah, sorry, I bought several Radeon RX550 video cards, low profile, 2GB of Ram, for $80 each just before all of this madness started. They were used system pulls, so I have been out of it for a couple of years. Other than that, I've only built systems with video built into the processor.
I have been testing the Intel built-in 770 GPU found in the 13700 CPU and it is quite fast with 64gb 5600mhz RAM on board. 4K streaming is sharp and have zero problems with a fiber optic 3gb per second business ethernet connection and a 4K HDR 32” 120hz display!
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,973
2,099
126
Heads up, you can get the MSI Radeon RX 6750 XT MECH 2X at Micro Center B&M for $300.


Lowest price this card has been at; MC had a PowerColor version on clearance a few weeks back, but inventory was non-existent.

You probably won't find a better NIB graphics card for $300.

Separately, Newegg does have a new coupon for paying with Affirm (short term financing), so that may interest some PC component shoppers. Obviously there is a finance charge that takes away part of the coupon savings.
 
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Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,097
644
126
Separately, Newegg does have a new coupon for paying with Affirm (short term financing), so that may interest some PC component shoppers. Obviously there is a finance charge that takes away part of the coupon savings.

Actually just used that Affirm coupon a couple days ago and then paid off the loan a day or two later and had no finance charge. Just FYI for those considering the Newegg deal.