Are things really that bad ?

[sportage]

Polls are once again becoming very close as Tuesday nears.
Seems the country is divided 50/50 once again.
We've been divided 50/50 every major election cycle for years.
Republicans do well on midterms, democrats just aren't motivated enough, I guess.
As polls near a 50/50 split once again, I just have to wonder, are things really THAT bad?
Are people really doing THAT terrible?
Do people really feel so lost and cheated and disillusioned where so many would reject a sure thing and bet the farm on a complete unknown?
The sure thing being Hillary and more of Obama, which has been pretty stable.
The unknown being to risk the stability we have experienced for the last eight years.

I just can't imagine why so many feel worse off than they were when Obama took charge.
Certainly more people are now working. The wage has steadily increased, especially for low wages workers.
Gas prices have been extraordinary stable and low. No wheres near the instability during the Bush years.
When it comes to the economy, all the numbers have been a plus.
So why do so many feel things are that terrible for them personally?
And what do they really expect someone like Donald Trump to do to make their life better?
Can so many people actually believe Donald Trump can pull rabbits out of magical hats?

With building a huge wall, if that even happens under Trump, will that wall really improve the average American life or create more wealth or more job security or more high paying opportunity than before the wall?
Will a Trump really force ISIS out of existence and eliminate terrorism once and for all?
Will fewer blacks get shot by police or die within black communities?
Can Trump really return jobs and manufacturing from Mexico back to the US?

What is it and why do nearly half of all Americans feel they are so terrible bad off now, and believe someone with absolutely no experience nor record of performance can pull off the unimaginable?
What is Trump really selling us?
Just words and promises, with nothing to back him up as proof.
Why would so many put so much blind trust in someone they really do not know at all?
I just don't get it.

I just can't imagine why so many people, working people, doing quite well people, have this perception their life is so awfully bad and why they would put so much misguided illogical blind trust in a billionaire like Donald Trump?
And don't they realize they are signing onto and into the most extreme anti-middle class republican Paul Ryan agenda in history?
An agenda to turn Social security upside down onto its head, pull the rug out of medicare, double down on triple down economics. The same triple down that nearly forced the middle class into extinction first time around.

And I also wonder....
Will blacks vote for whites?
Is it realistic for any white candidate to expect a high black turnout at the polls?
Especially when the only two choices on the ballot are white people.
Is it reasonable for any black to think the white guy or woman is really going to understand their problems, needs, and help with their situations?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Donald Trump does take the presidency on Tuesday November 8th.
And I also would not be surprised if voter turnout from blacks is terribly low.
And I wouldn't be surprised at all if that Hispanic voter surge that everyone seems to expect just doesn't happen. I won't be surprised if the blacks stay home, and the Hispanics stay home, and the youth stay home, and a lot of democrats also stay home.
And I wouldn't be surprised if Trump not only pulls this off, but pulls this off in a huge way.

And after all is said and done, I still will not understand why it was where so many people felt their life so was so terribly bad. What is it they feel should have happened but failed to happen under the Obama administration, and how Donald Trump is going to somehow magically make everything alright again.

 

[brycejones]

They are worse if Hillary wins there will be 650 million more people here in a week.

 

[dullard]

They are worse if Hillary wins there will be 650 million more people here in a week.

Just think with 650 million more taxpayers, we will be debt free in a couple of years! Our GDP will triple too.

 

[dullard]

The sure thing being Hillary and more of Obama, which has been pretty stable...

I just can't imagine why so many feel worse off than they were when Obama took charge. So why do so many feel things are that terrible for them personally?...

With building a huge wall, if that even happens under Trump, will that wall really improve the average American life or create more wealth or more job security or more high paying opportunity than before the wall?...What is Trump really selling us?

Is it realistic for any white candidate to expect a high black turnout at the polls?

The best reason to vote for Clinton is for stability. Bill Clinton's first term was stable growth with relative peace, same with Obama's term. Hillary Clinton will likely continue similar policies which will keep businesses happy as they don't have to deal with the unknown explosive nature of Trump.

But Trump's brand of Mussolini authoritarianism can catch on like wildfire. It is the magic pill form of solutions. Your ills are not your fault, they are the fault of the "others", "the outsiders", "the immigrants", etc. This "evil" disease is the drain and the cause of all problems, but it is also undefined and ambiguous. This disease can therefore only be cured by a strongman who will be the decider. Take the Trump pill and your problems will go away without you needing to do anything. You don't need to do hard work to make your life better, Trump will do it all.

Black voters wanted the same magic pill with Obama. Elect a black president and it will all be better. No, it won't and it didn't. A president, (Obama, Clinton or Trump) can only do a few limited things with a broad stroke. A president can't make your life better. You must make your life better. A president can give you a helping hand, but a president can't do more than a gentle assist. Blacks are disappointed that their magic pill didn't work and fewer will vote this time. But, yes they will vote for a white person.

The wall is already there. It was built decades ago. It isn't 100% continuous, but where it isn't complete, there are hundreds more border police than are needed, so many more that each border agent will often go months without capturing anyone. No, a more complete wall won't do a thing but the temporary placebo relief of a magic pill. Like Obama couldn't magically make black lives better, Trump can't make the lives of the poor, white, and neglected better either.

In broad strokes everything is looking good in America. GDP is up, unemployment is down, profits are up, wages (shockingly) are up, we have peace and stability. But what we don't have is even distribution. Most of the gains in jobs were for the wealthy or the minimum wage--nothing for the middle class. Profits aren't going to the poor. Neither are the wage gains for those making minimum wage. New jobs are in the cities--nothing for the small rural towns. Peace and stability are great, unless you are a jobless white person in a ghost town who's industry left 30 years ago. Nothing a president can do will help you. You have to help yourself. But we want a magic pill instead.

 

[Jaskalas]

You have to help yourself.

If that was possible we wouldn't need social security or any other social service.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's like this-

 

[dullard]

If that was possible we wouldn't need social security or any other social service.

Helping yourself and the need for social insurance / services aren't related at all.

Just because you may buy car insurance doesn't mean you can rip off the steering wheel, floor the gas pedal and think the insurance will cover you. Similarly, even if you are the best driver in the world, you still need insurance since something out of your control could happen to you (say you have a stroke when driving and have had no prior health problems).

The same goes for social insurance / services. You will never get a good life relying on just those. You need to make your life good. You need to do the work. But, no matter how hard you work, something outside of your control could happen to you. So we must have the life preserver available as a last resort.

The problem comes to people attempting to use it as a first resort. But that doesn't mean that we can or should get rid of the life preservers. Neither does it mean that hard work will eliminate the need for a life preserver.

 

[Moonbeam]

The best reason to vote for Clinton is for stability.

In broad strokes everything is looking good in America. GDP is up, unemployment is down, profits are up, wages (shockingly) are up, we have peace and stability. But what we don't have is even distribution. Most of the gains in jobs were for the wealthy or the minimum wage--nothing for the middle class. Profits aren't going to the poor. Neither are the wage gains for those making minimum wage. New jobs are in the cities--nothing for the small rural towns. Peace and stability are great, unless you are a jobless white person in a ghost town who's industry left 30 years ago. Nothing a president can do will help you. You have to help yourself. But we want a magic pill instead.

I'll take a revolution please. I don't want stability without systemic change, that returns power to the people rather than the wealthy. We need a compassionate socialist system that puts human life above profit or we will destroy the planet. Humanity is asleep in a nightmare of competition caused by the vacuum in our souls created by self hate. If you do not think of helping others there will be no help for yourself. In a jungle everybody has to compete. Only social animals rise above that state.

 

[Sunburn74]

Honestly, state governments are where it's at for most of the problems we face on a daily basis. Keep voting in idiots who run unopposed and wonder why we keep getting the same shit.

 

[TeeJay1952]

I fixed computers for free all over inner city. Welfare ain't a glamorous life! It is endured not aspired to.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Honestly, state governments are where it's at for most of the problems we face on a daily basis. Keep voting in idiots who run unopposed and wonder why we keep getting the same shit.

I came to a similar conclusion, and my lack of enthusiasm for the presidential candidates caused me to turn a more focused eye on local elections and ballot initiatives. I will be voting a mixed ballot of moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans.

 

[soulcougher73]

It depends who you talk to. For most of us that post here probably not as most of us have decent careers or schooling. But for the true middle class america. Maybe.

 

[OrByte]

Things are not really that bad.

I never bought into the narrative that HRC is a bad person, that she is "untrustworthy" or that she is "crooked"

She is a politician. She also is a hard worker, intelligent, tough, and I trust her judgement.

Don't give me BS about the Clinton Foundation, Emails, Banghazi, or any of the supposed scandals that others tried to peg Bill or Hillary on. the GOP has been trying to nail the Clinton's for decades and can't. They tried, they failed. TRIED.FAILED.

Why does it surprise anyone that character assassination is the only thing means to attack HRC? she's been in politics for decades, you should be able to find her disagreeable when it comes to the issues, but you can't. She actually works. And she will be a great President.

 

[bshole]

I am 8 years closer to death. My son is smoking pot, getting D's and is involved in nothing that indicates he will be a successful adult. My wife lost her tongue to cancer. So objectively I would say I am clearly way the fuck less well off than I was 8 years ago. How much of this can I blame on Obama though?

 

[Jhhnn]

Things are not really that bad.

I never bought into the narrative that HRC is a bad person, that she is "untrustworthy" or that she is "crooked"

She is a politician. She also is a hard worker, intelligent, tough, and I trust her judgement.

Don't give me BS about the Clinton Foundation, Emails, Banghazi, or any of the supposed scandals that others tried to peg Bill or Hillary on. the GOP has been trying to nail the Clinton's for decades and can't. They tried, they failed. TRIED.FAILED.

Why does it surprise anyone that character assassination is the only thing means to attack HRC? she's been in politics for decades, you should be able to find her disagreeable when it comes to the issues, but you can't. She actually works. And she will be a great President.

More than that she has honest middle class roots & loyalties. She knows that she's been lucky & that not everybody gets to be. She knows she's lucky to have the gifts she was born with & to live in a society where they mattered.

 

[michal1980]

The best reason to vote for Clinton is for stability. Bill Clinton's first term was stable growth with relative peace, same with Obama's term. Hillary Clinton will likely continue similar policies which will keep businesses happy as they don't have to deal with the unknown explosive nature of Trump.

But Trump's brand of Mussolini authoritarianism can catch on like wildfire. It is the magic pill form of solutions. Your ills are not your fault, they are the fault of the "others", "the outsiders", "the immigrants", etc. This "evil" disease is the drain and the cause of all problems, but it is also undefined and ambiguous. This disease can therefore only be cured by a strongman who will be the decider. Take the Trump pill and your problems will go away without you needing to do anything. You don't need to do hard work to make your life better, Trump will do it all.

Black voters wanted the same magic pill with Obama. Elect a black president and it will all be better. No, it won't and it didn't. A president, (Obama, Clinton or Trump) can only do a few limited things with a broad stroke. A president can't make your life better. You must make your life better. A president can give you a helping hand, but a president can't do more than a gentle assist. Blacks are disappointed that their magic pill didn't work and fewer will vote this time. But, yes they will vote for a white person.

The wall is already there. It was built decades ago. It isn't 100% continuous, but where it isn't complete, there are hundreds more border police than are needed, so many more that each border agent will often go months without capturing anyone. No, a more complete wall won't do a thing but the temporary placebo relief of a magic pill. Like Obama couldn't magically make black lives better, Trump can't make the lives of the poor, white, and neglected better either.

In broad strokes everything is looking good in America. GDP is up, unemployment is down, profits are up, wages (shockingly) are up, we have peace and stability. But what we don't have is even distribution. Most of the gains in jobs were for the wealthy or the minimum wage--nothing for the middle class. Profits aren't going to the poor. Neither are the wage gains for those making minimum wage. New jobs are in the cities--nothing for the small rural towns. Peace and stability are great, unless you are a jobless white person in a ghost town who's industry left 30 years ago. Nothing a president can do will help you. You have to help yourself. But we want a magic pill instead.

So Trump is using the democrats play book?

Black People are poor because of white people.
Poor people are poor because the rich steal their money.
Grandma will be pushed off a cliff if a republican is in office.
It wasn't your fault you bought a house you could never afford that was big banks fault.

 

[michal1980]

More than that she has honest middle class roots & loyalties. She knows that she's been lucky & that not everybody gets to be. She knows she's lucky to have the gifts she was born with & to live in a society where they mattered.

no. she sold access to government to get rich. She's just a good con artist.

 

[michal1980]

Things are not really that bad.

I never bought into the narrative that HRC is a bad person, that she is "untrustworthy" or that she is "crooked"

She is a politician. She also is a hard worker, intelligent, tough, and I trust her judgement.

Don't give me BS about the Clinton Foundation, Emails, Banghazi, or any of the supposed scandals that others tried to peg Bill or Hillary on. the GOP has been trying to nail the Clinton's for decades and can't. They tried, they failed. TRIED.FAILED.

Why does it surprise anyone that character assassination is the only thing means to attack HRC? she's been in politics for decades, you should be able to find her disagreeable when it comes to the issues, but you can't. She actually works. And she will be a great President.

Yes if you ignore everything bad she is, she is a good person.

If you ignore everything trump says he is a genius.

 

[sportage]

A lot of these people are uneducated, at least they never went to college nor had the chance to.
And they feel the kids that had the opportunity to attended college, to further their education, they are the enemy.

And remember, the strength of that blue collar worker were with the factory jobs.
Dad worked in a factory, dads dad worked in a factory, and even mom possibly worked a factory. All of them middle class, union, and earning a good living for people that never attended a college.

However... all of that has gone away for the sons of the fathers.
That factory jobs that gave the kids such a great life was not there for the sons and daughters.
They never had the chance to buy a house, they rented.
They never owned a new car, they drove a car on its last legs.
They never took a vacation or enjoyed restaurants, they went fishing and ate McDonalds. And so did their kids.

They now believe Donald Trump will bring back that good life the factories provided for dad and his dad and his dads dad.
They really believe Donald Trump is for the little guy, for them.
All I can say, boy are you in for a rude awakening.
What little you now have, your food stamps, your social security, maybe your social security disability, all that will go bye bye as fast as the factory jobs under a president Trump.
Hell... that's what they do.
They are not little guy, they have always been big business.
Where have you been?

And all remaining for you will be your guns, your religion, and a whole lot of mean anger inside.
And President Trump will completely ignore you and your plight BECAUSE....
that is exactly how the snake oil salesman treats his customer after the sale.

 

[Gryz]

One issue that nobody is talking about.

Trump is just one guy.
And I would believe he isn't very well connected to anyone else. He doesn't have his own politcal clan. Nor political friends. Heck, the party that he is running for doesn't even like him.

If he wins, he'll have to form a cabinet, a government. Who will be his secretaries ? Who will control the FBI, the CIA, NSA ? Who will run all the other important positions that control your country ? I bet the Clinton camp has a list of people they want to put in important positions. People that are firmly in the Clinton camp. Who will execute Hillaries ideas.

But what does Trump have ?
Nothing.
That means that if he wins, all those positions will be filled by Republicans. Republicans he hardly knows. Republicans that are not loyal to Trump. Trump has no idea how he wants to achieve the things he has promised. He has no strategies. And even more important, he doesn't have the people to execute those strategies.

If Trump becomes President, he will be in the news a lot. He will talk a lot. He will deal with a few high-profile issues. Maybe start a war (although I think not). But for the rest, the old Republican Party will run the business. They will do the same things they did under GW Bush and Papa Bush. They will make the rich richer, they will ruin the middle-class. They will starve the poor. They will destroy health care. You Americans shouldn't be scared of Trump, if Trump wins. You should be scared of the same Republicans that made 2000-2008 one of the worst periods in American history.

 

[nickqt]

no. she sold access to government to get rich. She's just a good con artist.

Keep repeating what your handlers shit into your skull, imbecile.

 

[Victorian Gray]

no. she sold access to government to get rich. She's just a good con artist.

Who actually got "access to government", when, and in what manner? And, how much money was she paid personally?

 

[Jhhnn]

One issue that nobody is talking about.

Trump is just one guy.
And I would believe he isn't very well connected to anyone else. He doesn't have his own politcal clan. Nor political friends. Heck, the party that he is running for doesn't even like him.

If he wins, he'll have to form a cabinet, a government. Who will be his secretaries ? Who will control the FBI, the CIA, NSA ? Who will run all the other important positions that control your country ? I bet the Clinton camp has a list of people they want to put in important positions. People that are firmly in the Clinton camp. Who will execute Hillaries ideas.

But what does Trump have ?
Nothing.
That means that if he wins, all those positions will be filled by Republicans. Republicans he hardly knows. Republicans that are not loyal to Trump. Trump has no idea how he wants to achieve the things he has promised. He has no strategies. And even more important, he doesn't have the people to execute those strategies.

If Trump becomes President, he will be in the news a lot. He will talk a lot. He will deal with a few high-profile issues. Maybe start a war (although I think not). But for the rest, the old Republican Party will run the business. They will do the same things they did under GW Bush and Papa Bush. They will make the rich richer, they will ruin the middle-class. They will starve the poor. They will destroy health care. You Americans shouldn't be scared of Trump, if Trump wins. You should be scared of the same Republicans that made 2000-2008 one of the worst periods in American history.

Thank you. I'm sure that Donald & a Repub Congress could agree on a trickle down regulation & tax plan that would put the ultra wealthy into financial orbit & the rest of us chained to the oars. Well, if we even get oars.

 

[Jaskalas]

Helping yourself and the need for social insurance / services aren't related at all.

Topic
Are things really that bad?

dullard
We have peace and stability.
But what we don't have is even distribution.

For a moment let's forget "even" distribution. How about we settle for the distribution of the 60s and 70s? You see, without the golden America that was, our labor market is closing more doors than opening. Current distribution failure means fewer people have the time or money to meet the ever growing market requirements. "People" are an ever decreasing asset value.

dullard
You have to help yourself.

Compared to cost of living, a lot of people don't make !@#$ for money these days. And you think they don't get trapped down there? Every year it just gets worse. Wealth is accumulated in Wall Street and then shipped overseas into their global investments where they take slave labor to produce and then ship products back over here where the American consumer buys the cheapest product. That cycle puts more Americans out of work. Or into lower quality, lower paying work.

I say people helping themselves first need a boost. Far as I see it they are sinking under the weight of the global economy.
And the next few decades are going nuclear with automation. This is just the beginning of income inequality.

 

[Mai72]

F*ck politicans.

I take full responsibility for my life. This is America dammit. If I want an exceptional life than its up to me to get it. If I want t wealth it's up to me. Hillary, Trump, Obama or any other politician isn't going to do it. I need to invest in me first.

With that said, many people don't take responsibility for their lives. They wait on the politican whose going to make it all better. Look at Trump. What's he doing? His campaign has been nothing but fear mongering. And, he says that only he can make your life better. So people buy it. They let go of control and hive it to the politicans.
Obama was the same. Free health care for all! Well what if I don't want your health care. I'll make enough money that I can afford my own health care. The same with retirement. I don't need your 401k. I don't need anything from you. I'll do it on my own. IMO, that's freedom.

No politician is going to make your life better.