Are there religious "fanatics" that are not harmful?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Craig234
A problem with the word fanatic is that it has little meaning IMO for a topic like this - one man's fanatic is another's non-fanatic hero.

I've been called - by someone pretty silly, yes - fanatical about democracy here for simply claiming what I thought is the core American value that it's the least bad way for our society's formal power to be distributed, compared to alternatives where power is concentrated in fewer hands.

Now consider how radical it was for our founding fathers to want to overthrow the entire government from ruling the colonies that had been in place for several centuries, to the point of risking the large loss of life in going to war for it, to get 'democracy'. Their fellow citizens could certainly have called them 'fanatics'; we call them great men who made the world's best, most progressive system of government.

Is it fanatical for young people in the prosperous United States to risk their lives to go kill people they don't know in Iraq or Vietnam, for vague notions of 'serving the nation'? The difficulty in recognizing them as fanatical demonstrates the level of cultural bias in the term.

Is the guy who does not do anything himself much, but ignorantly votes for a warmongering candidate and pays their taxes to fun unjust wars without question, a fanatic - or if not, a bigger problem than a fanatic?

Who's killed more, the 'normal' citizen who is an enabler to the abuse of power to kill others, or the 'fanatic'? Our Iraq sanctions killed hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children from diseases and similar causes, as Americans paid almost no attention, while 9/11 killed nearly 3,000 people - who was the fanatic? Who caused more harm?

Oh FFS... Craig, you're as fanatic about democracy as Stalin was about freedom of speech.

But yes, patriotism is a form of fanaticism, no religion required (although I personally consider it a form of religion).

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

:laugh: :thumbsup:

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: Craig234
A problem with the word fanatic is that it has little meaning IMO for a topic like this - one man's fanatic is another's non-fanatic hero.

I've been called - by someone pretty silly, yes - fanatical about democracy here for simply claiming what I thought is the core American value that it's the least bad way for our society's formal power to be distributed, compared to alternatives where power is concentrated in fewer hands.

Now consider how radical it was for our founding fathers to want to overthrow the entire government from ruling the colonies that had been in place for several centuries, to the point of risking the large loss of life in going to war for it, to get 'democracy'. Their fellow citizens could certainly have called them 'fanatics'; we call them great men who made the world's best, most progressive system of government.

Is it fanatical for young people in the prosperous United States to risk their lives to go kill people they don't know in Iraq or Vietnam, for vague notions of 'serving the nation'? The difficulty in recognizing them as fanatical demonstrates the level of cultural bias in the term.

Is the guy who does not do anything himself much, but ignorantly votes for a warmongering candidate and pays their taxes to fun unjust wars without question, a fanatic - or if not, a bigger problem than a fanatic?

Who's killed more, the 'normal' citizen who is an enabler to the abuse of power to kill others, or the 'fanatic'? Our Iraq sanctions killed hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children from diseases and similar causes, as Americans paid almost no attention, while 9/11 killed nearly 3,000 people - who was the fanatic? Who caused more harm?

Your point about the semantics is well taken. I was relying on a stereotypical interpretation of the word in the context of religion, and I think most people picked up on it. I don't think the terms of my question would hold up under legal scrutiny.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Craig234
A problem with the word fanatic is that it has little meaning IMO for a topic like this - one man's fanatic is another's non-fanatic hero.

I've been called - by someone pretty silly, yes - fanatical about democracy here for simply claiming what I thought is the core American value that it's the least bad way for our society's formal power to be distributed, compared to alternatives where power is concentrated in fewer hands.

Now consider how radical it was for our founding fathers to want to overthrow the entire government from ruling the colonies that had been in place for several centuries, to the point of risking the large loss of life in going to war for it, to get 'democracy'. Their fellow citizens could certainly have called them 'fanatics'; we call them great men who made the world's best, most progressive system of government.

Is it fanatical for young people in the prosperous United States to risk their lives to go kill people they don't know in Iraq or Vietnam, for vague notions of 'serving the nation'? The difficulty in recognizing them as fanatical demonstrates the level of cultural bias in the term.

Is the guy who does not do anything himself much, but ignorantly votes for a warmongering candidate and pays their taxes to fun unjust wars without question, a fanatic - or if not, a bigger problem than a fanatic?

Who's killed more, the 'normal' citizen who is an enabler to the abuse of power to kill others, or the 'fanatic'? Our Iraq sanctions killed hundreds of thousands, mostly women and children from diseases and similar causes, as Americans paid almost no attention, while 9/11 killed nearly 3,000 people - who was the fanatic? Who caused more harm?

Oh FFS... Craig, you're as fanatic about democracy as Stalin was about freedom of speech.

But yes, patriotism is a form of fanaticism, no religion required (although I personally consider it a form of religion).

Could I ask you to remove the personal comment so the thread stays on topic, please?

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

:laugh:

What a load of shit.

Really? What part? Or just all of it in general? Talk about loads of shit.

There is certainly no shortage of simple ideas on this forum. :thumbsdown:

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

You sound like a bitter little 10th grader. I'm sorry you are so close-minded and arrogant, probably more so than the vast majority of the people you speak of. Ironic isn't it?

You might think that, and you might be wrong. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

:laugh:

What a load of shit.

Really? What part? Or just all of it in general? Talk about loads of shit.

There is certainly no shortage of simple ideas on this forum. :thumbsdown:

Pretty much all of it.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

I don't see any mangling here... shall it be criminal to use profanity in front of your children too? What about allowing them to see an R rated movie? We're talking about freedom of expression and belief here.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Ever get caught in a cross fire fight with a Meninite gang clashes with the Amish ?

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

:laugh:

What a load of shit.

Really? What part? Or just all of it in general? Talk about loads of shit.

There is certainly no shortage of simple ideas on this forum. :thumbsdown:

Religion is not a disease, it is no more than a social construct. Otherwise you'd have to consider obsession with gaming, American Football, (and other sports), politics, social Darwinism a disease. Granted, religion is much more elaborate than most I listed, but still..

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

You sound like a bitter little 10th grader. I'm sorry you are so close-minded and arrogant, probably more so than the vast majority of the people you speak of. Ironic isn't it?

You might think that, and you might be wrong. Ironic, isn't it?

How am I wrong? Your comments speak for themselves on your arrogance and blinding self assuredness. As far as sounding like a 10th grader, you do sound like one.

And you need to look up the word "irony" before you try and make a witty retort like that.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

You sound like a bitter little 10th grader. I'm sorry you are so close-minded and arrogant, probably more so than the vast majority of the people you speak of. Ironic isn't it?

You might think that, and you might be wrong. Ironic, isn't it?

How am I wrong? Your comments speak for themselves on your arrogance and blinding self assuredness. As far as sounding like a 10th grader, you do sound like one.

And you need to look up the word "irony" before you try and make a witty retort like that.

I found when a debate turns to petty belittlement that the person starting the belittling usually has nothing of value to add to a thread, not even a real opinion. And you fit that generalization to a tee. Congratulations! Job well done! :roll:

You simply disagree and rather than support your argument as any coherent adult would you turn instead into a juvenile forum bully, acting like your in the 10th grade! :Q

Oh the irony is really just so thick in here I'm sweating my butt off!

And Santa Clause told me to tell you you better be nice, or you won't get that new Halo Edition Xbox 360 you want for Xmas. He's going to give it to me, instead. :gift:

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SlickSnake
Religion is a mental disease predominately spread by easily influenced, simple minded sheeple who don't know any better and are desperately looking for some peer group to fit into, however absurd it might be. Which is why it comes in so many flavors.

The most destructive long term aspect of religions is the indoctrination and brainwashing of the young sheeple involved with the religions through their parents adamant ministrations. The children really do not know any better, since they never really had a chance to form their own opinions about anything to start with. What you then end up with is generation after generation of religious zombies who literally can not think for themselves and view their entire existence based on a non verifiable assumption that they have been brainwashed into accepting.

And not to mention a lot of sheeple simply use it to easily justify anything they can not comprehend, such as outer space, creation or death. They can not accept when you die, that is it. They have to have some fantasy to look forwards too, and religion easily provides whatever that hope or fantasy might be, since other people who wanted it to be true thought it up a long time before you were even born.

So if you are religious, then by that very admission you must be fanatical about it, otherwise you would not claim it as your own. Unfortunately so many societal functions revolve around religion, such as marriage with a tax deduction and benefits, that society as a whole still goes along for the free joy ride on even though the exercise of religion by the majority of participants might be completely lacking, such as never going to church at all.

Then politics and politicians come along and easily manipulate and pull that string of brain dead religious sheeple where ever they want it to go by just invoking said religion, magical tomes and icons associated with it at every possible opportunity.

You sound like a bitter little 10th grader. I'm sorry you are so close-minded and arrogant, probably more so than the vast majority of the people you speak of. Ironic isn't it?

You might think that, and you might be wrong. Ironic, isn't it?

How am I wrong? Your comments speak for themselves on your arrogance and blinding self assuredness. As far as sounding like a 10th grader, you do sound like one.

And you need to look up the word "irony" before you try and make a witty retort like that.

I found when a debate turns to petty belittlement that the person starting the belittling usually has nothing of value to add to a thread, not even a real opinion. And you fit that generalization to a tee. Congratulations! Job well done! :roll:

You simply disagree and rather than support your argument as any coherent adult would you turn instead into a juvenile forum bully, acting like your in the 10th grade! :Q

Oh the irony is really just so thick in here I'm sweating my butt off!

And Santa Clause told me to tell you you better be nice, or you won't get that new Halo Edition Xbox 360 you want for Xmas. He's going to give it to me, instead. :gift:

I would point out that your original comments are nothing but petty belittlement of vast numbers of people, but i still don't think you're grasped the concept of irony. Keep truckin kiddo

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: bbdub333


I would point out that your original comments are nothing but petty belittlement of vast numbers of people, but i still don't think you're grasped the concept of irony. Keep truckin kiddo

Well, at least you chose to actually make a comment that makes some sense now. I obviously was not going to pick a side and single out a specific religion, when the point was being adequately conveyed in a more generalized fashion.

The simple fact religious fanatics have to be deprogrammed to make them function properly in society is proof enough it is a dangerous mental disease, and it is similar to any other psychological addiction. And as a good example I also don't believe finding the Virgin on every conceivable thing imaginable is tantamount to any proof of religion. But when someone has a delusional mental condition and they have a weak grasp on reality, anything is possible, isn't it? I have seen first hand people who's lives were destroyed by religion and similar false beliefs. Religiosity did not help them, it helped destroy them.

And please don't force me to link several definitions of irony to back up my use of it, it is correct, and the fact it is amusingly lost on you, isn't lost on me. You can also stop the belittling trash talk. I feel pretty sure I am older than you and I also have no doubt I have seen a lot more than you have regarding this issue first hand, Kiddo.

 

[palehorse]

ALL religious "fanatics" are harmful in one way, or another - even if it's only to their own families. That said, the West has done an excellent job, primarily during the last 100 years, in curbing the fanaticism. We were especially effective in stamping out the violent offenders. 100 percent? no... But we can safely call it a very tolerable 99% and be content.

I just wish the same were true in Islamic territories...

 

[manowar821]

I'd argue yes and no, for two different reasons.

No, because it damages the possibility of childing being raised in such an environment from actually learning about their planet, and universe in a fact-based way, effectively putting a road-block between them and becoming a useful member of society.

Yes, because like it has been said before, fundamentalism isn't a murderer in of itself, it's politicians and it always has been. They USE the religion to get the fundamentalists riled up and angry at a certain group of people, making sure that they're bloodthirsty for their own gains. That's how wars are started with regards to religious fundamentalism. That doesn't exactly absolve the fundies, seeing as they're partially at fault for, you know, killing people, and for being so closed minded as to believe that their way is the only way, and that others must be killed for disagreeing... That's a state of mind pretty deserving of disrespect and malice...

...You know what? Never mind, there is no such thing as a fanatic who isn't harmful. I have no respect for them, whatsoever.

Haha, what the hell was I thinking, trying to make excuses for religious fanatics?

 

[teclis1023]

Yes, there are religious fanatics who are not harmful. And there are many that are.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333


I would point out that your original comments are nothing but petty belittlement of vast numbers of people, but i still don't think you're grasped the concept of irony. Keep truckin kiddo

Well, at least you chose to actually make a comment that makes some sense now. I obviously was not going to pick a side and single out a specific religion, when the point was being adequately conveyed in a more generalized fashion.

The simple fact religious fanatics have to be deprogrammed to make them function properly in society is proof enough it is a dangerous mental disease, and it is similar to any other psychological addiction. And as a good example I also don't believe finding the Virgin on every conceivable thing imaginable is tantamount to any proof of religion. But when someone has a delusional mental condition and they have a weak grasp on reality, anything is possible, isn't it? I have seen first hand people who's lives were destroyed by religion and similar false beliefs. Religiosity did not help them, it helped destroy them.

And please don't force me to link several definitions of irony to back up my use of it, it is correct, and the fact it is amusingly lost on you, isn't lost on me. You can also stop the belittling trash talk. I feel pretty sure I am older than you and I also have no doubt I have seen a lot more than you have regarding this issue first hand, Kiddo.

Well, as a child I was profoundly struck by Christ's love but like you I came to see that religion is a joke. That was the death of me because it turned my life black. I saw there is no difference between good and evil, that they are merely human inventions, and the death of every innocent child everywhere makes no real difference at all in this cold and empty universe. All human longing ans suffering and hope for the good is in vane. So I died to the possibility that life could ever have meaning. I let go of all that I had and immediately awoke to discover I always had had everything. The love I had thought was out there was nowhere but in my own heart. Without the longing for Christ I felt as a child I doubt I ever would have seen. Thanks God for religion.

He who makes a sword also makes sparks.

My dear SlickSnake, yours is a religion of sparks.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

Do you even have children? Children are forcibly taught to do a whole bunch of shit they dont want to do, such as go to school, mind their manners at the table, bathe, etc. Even if you dont truly believe in religion, it is still an effective measure to get kids to act straight, as a fear of going to hell is a compelling reason to do what you have been told is the right thing. Telling kids that Santa wont come if they are bad is very similar.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

Do you even have children? Children are forcibly taught to do a whole bunch of shit they dont want to do, such as go to school, mind their manners at the table, bathe, etc. Even if you dont truly believe in religion, it is still an effective measure to get kids to act straight, as a fear of going to hell is a compelling reason to do what you have been told is the right thing. Telling kids that Santa wont come if they are bad is very similar.

I totally disagree. Fear is not a good mechanism for teaching respect. If the person teaching the children isn't incompetent, they can get the idea of "treat others how you'd like to be treated" across without telling them they're going to an imaginary pit of fire and pain for eternity. That can, you know, screw a kid up...

Fear != Respect. Ever.

The only people who ever told me that I needed to fear a higher power were people I didn't know, much less people I was required to listen to. My family raised me to respect people, and to respect them just for the sake of respect (unless they disrespect me). Not for fear of damnation, or for fear of punishment. This way everyone will be better off, and my life will become a little happier as well as theirs. This goes along side with the term "sin". Sin, in my opinion, is a selfish and useless idea. It's the idea that thoughts and actions that are not actually morally wrong, are still wrong according to "god" (or the people who invented said god, in other words), and that is absolute bullshit. It's a warped version of "morally wrong" that also includes thoughts and actions that individuals are uncomfortable with, no matter how truly bad they are. Take homosexuals for example. Are they wrong, or bad? Even if it IS their choice? No, they're not bad, they're not hurting anyone. But religion doesn't need it to be bad, they just need it to be a "sin", and then all other explanation as to why it's bad is unnecessary because GOD SAID SO (again, god is actually the people who invented him).

Fear is a pathetic tool for pathetic people.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: bbdub333


I would point out that your original comments are nothing but petty belittlement of vast numbers of people, but i still don't think you're grasped the concept of irony. Keep truckin kiddo

Well, at least you chose to actually make a comment that makes some sense now. I obviously was not going to pick a side and single out a specific religion, when the point was being adequately conveyed in a more generalized fashion.

The simple fact religious fanatics have to be deprogrammed to make them function properly in society is proof enough it is a dangerous mental disease, and it is similar to any other psychological addiction. And as a good example I also don't believe finding the Virgin on every conceivable thing imaginable is tantamount to any proof of religion. But when someone has a delusional mental condition and they have a weak grasp on reality, anything is possible, isn't it? I have seen first hand people who's lives were destroyed by religion and similar false beliefs. Religiosity did not help them, it helped destroy them.

And please don't force me to link several definitions of irony to back up my use of it, it is correct, and the fact it is amusingly lost on you, isn't lost on me. You can also stop the belittling trash talk. I feel pretty sure I am older than you and I also have no doubt I have seen a lot more than you have regarding this issue first hand, Kiddo.

Well, as a child I was profoundly struck by Christ's love but like you I came to see that religion is a joke. That was the death of me because it turned my life black. I saw there is no difference between good and evil, that they are merely human inventions, and the death of every innocent child everywhere makes no real difference at all in this cold and empty universe. All human longing ans suffering and hope for the good is in vane. So I died to the possibility that life could ever have meaning. I let go of all that I had and immediately awoke to discover I always had had everything. The love I had thought was out there was nowhere but in my own heart. Without the longing for Christ I felt as a child I doubt I ever would have seen. Thanks God for religion.

He who makes a sword also makes sparks.

My dear SlickSnake, yours is a religion of sparks.

Astute and well-worded. Thank you.

 

[AreaCode7O7]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

Do you even have children? Children are forcibly taught to do a whole bunch of shit they dont want to do, such as go to school, mind their manners at the table, bathe, etc. Even if you dont truly believe in religion, it is still an effective measure to get kids to act straight, as a fear of going to hell is a compelling reason to do what you have been told is the right thing. Telling kids that Santa wont come if they are bad is very similar.

I totally disagree. Fear is not a good mechanism for teaching respect. If the person teaching the children isn't incompetent, they can get the idea of "treat others how you'd like to be treated" across without telling them they're going to an imaginary pit of fire and pain for eternity. That can, you know, screw a kid up...

Fear != Respect. Ever.

The only people who ever told me that I needed to fear a higher power were people I didn't know, much less people I was required to listen to. My family raised me to respect people, and to respect them just for the sake of respect (unless they disrespect me). Not for fear of damnation, or for fear of punishment. This way everyone will be better off, and my life will become a little happier as well as theirs. This goes along side with the term "sin". Sin, in my opinion, is a selfish and useless idea. It's the idea that thoughts and actions that are not actually morally wrong, are still wrong according to "god" (or the people who invented said god, in other words), and that is absolute bullshit. It's a warped version of "morally wrong" that also includes thoughts and actions that individuals are uncomfortable with, no matter how truly bad they are. Take homosexuals for example. Are they wrong, or bad? Even if it IS their choice? No, they're not bad, they're not hurting anyone. But religion doesn't need it to be bad, they just need it to be a "sin", and then all other explanation as to why it's bad is unnecessary because GOD SAID SO (again, god is actually the people who invented him).

Fear is a pathetic tool for pathetic people.

Item 1: Fear. Without affecting your point in any way whatsoever, I do note that the word 'fear' has evolved into a more limited meaning over the years. There was a point where the word conveyed awe and honor instead of/in addition to cringing and scared. Fear, at one point in history, did equate to respect.

Item 2: I would like to hear more about what you mean by morally wrong, since you use the term as an absolute. "It's the idea that thoughts and actions that are not actually morally wrong, are still wrong according to "god" (or the people who invented said god, in other words), and that is absolute bullshit." What does morally wrong mean to you? Any situation where someone is hurt by someone else's action?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
You sound like a Stalin in training. Never heard someone ascribe the word "criminal" to one teaching their children their religious beliefs. You are more fanatic towards your beliefs than most christians I know.

Ah c'mon, man, this is the internet. I don't know about you, but I can't help from busting a gut laughing when you're reading a guy who posts in one thread about the evils of religious belief and how it should be criminal to teach religion and yet has another recent thread (still on the 1st page) entitled: "Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America!"
This is a level of doublethink you just cannot buy anywhere!

You do mangle words eloquently to suit yourself, Vic. I never said it should be criminal to teach religion, I basically said it should be criminal to forcibly teach it to minors against their will who otherwise do not have the ability to say "NO, I do not want to go to church."

Do you even have children? Children are forcibly taught to do a whole bunch of shit they dont want to do, such as go to school, mind their manners at the table, bathe, etc. Even if you dont truly believe in religion, it is still an effective measure to get kids to act straight, as a fear of going to hell is a compelling reason to do what you have been told is the right thing. Telling kids that Santa wont come if they are bad is very similar.

I totally disagree. Fear is not a good mechanism for teaching respect. If the person teaching the children isn't incompetent, they can get the idea of "treat others how you'd like to be treated" across without telling them they're going to an imaginary pit of fire and pain for eternity. That can, you know, screw a kid up...

Fear != Respect. Ever.

The only people who ever told me that I needed to fear a higher power were people I didn't know, much less people I was required to listen to. My family raised me to respect people, and to respect them just for the sake of respect (unless they disrespect me). Not for fear of damnation, or for fear of punishment. This way everyone will be better off, and my life will become a little happier as well as theirs. This goes along side with the term "sin". Sin, in my opinion, is a selfish and useless idea. It's the idea that thoughts and actions that are not actually morally wrong, are still wrong according to "god" (or the people who invented said god, in other words), and that is absolute bullshit. It's a warped version of "morally wrong" that also includes thoughts and actions that individuals are uncomfortable with, no matter how truly bad they are. Take homosexuals for example. Are they wrong, or bad? Even if it IS their choice? No, they're not bad, they're not hurting anyone. But religion doesn't need it to be bad, they just need it to be a "sin", and then all other explanation as to why it's bad is unnecessary because GOD SAID SO (again, god is actually the people who invented him).

Fear is a pathetic tool for pathetic people.

Item 1: Fear. Without affecting your point in any way whatsoever, I do note that the word 'fear' has evolved into a more limited meaning over the years. There was a point where the word conveyed awe and honor instead of/in addition to cringing and scared. Fear, at one point in history, did equate to respect.

Item 2: I would like to hear more about what you mean by morally wrong, since you use the term as an absolute. "It's the idea that thoughts and actions that are not actually morally wrong, are still wrong according to "god" (or the people who invented said god, in other words), and that is absolute bullshit." What does morally wrong mean to you? Any situation where someone is hurt by someone else's action?

Point one, noted.

Point two. Morally wrong would be any action that directly or indirectly hurts someone. Anything from laughing at a fat woman right to her face, to rape/torture/murder. There are all sorts of "moral wrongs", but they all have that one thing in common. They hurt someone. Of course, there are different degrees of wrong... If a child stole a piece of candy at a grocer, I wouldn't condemn him/her as evil like I would a rapist or molester, obviously :laugh:. That's another thing wrong with "sin", too. They're all given the same punishment, should you not repent. Unless I'm wrong? Or unless someone believes in LEVELS of hell, which is just as plausible as the existence of one hell.

I ramble a lot, sorry.