Are there disadvantages to "on-board" sound on a mobo? I'm trying to figure out which board to buy...

[rnmcd]

I am trying to determine which motherboard I should buy (I haven't built a PC in about two years) and I am so out of the loop that I really need to catch up on mobo/ram/cpu compatibility before I start making purchases.

I am not a gamer. I would like the motherboard to have: two or more USB 2.0 slots, parallel port, 4 or more PCI slots, an AGP slot, no onboard video (I have a dual-head card that I would like to use), no audio (unless it is easily disable and I can stick a card in without any IRQ problems), support a 1.8mhz P4 processor, support PC 2100 ram, PS/2 connector.

Is there anything out there that has a good performance history behind it?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[mechBgon]

Something based on an Intel i845PE chipset might be a good solution. Look here for some Intel-branded ones, for instance... the 845PESV is about $100 and has support for Intel's faster CPUs as they come along.

If you're shopping for the CPU, make sure to get the 1.8A, which is the Northwood-core P4 that has 512Mb of L2 cache, and not the 1.8 with the Williamette core (only 256kb L2).

I would assume the onboard audio can be switched off in the BIOS on an Intel board, by the way. Hope that helps

 

[Cerb]

Most motherboards now have onboard audio. However, if you haven't built a machine in 2 years, well, don't worry. Such integration has gone better than most of us hoped. Disabling the onboard sound and/or using two sound devices is easy and works just fine on most boards (similarly with onboard video). The only thing I'd recommend is going w/ PC2700 for the RAM. Check any reviews you want...PC2100 isn't all that great compared to RDRAM, while the PC2700 is only slightly behind. The PS/2 thing...while all USB boards exist, you'll have to look nice and hard to find them (and pay too much). USB 2.0 is about all you'll really have to look for, but even that is pretty common.

 

[MSNY]

Look into Soyo boards. I have the Soyo Dragon + with built in Cmedia 5.1 sound. It is as good or better then a SB Live
card. If your not an audiophile but want good, decent sound this is the ticket.

 

[Jstic]

NVIDIA nforce is in a league of its own when it comes to onboard sound. It is the only true Dolby digital onboard sound solution and its quality is superior to SB Live and as good as TB Santa Cruz.

Nevermind, I see you have Intel.

 

[rnmcd]

any other opinions?

 

[Peter]

This topic has been discussed in full detail more than once already. Please educate yourself by using the search function

 

[chizow]

Onboard sound solutions on a mobo made within the last year should suit your needs fine.

Only disadvantage vs a true dedicated pci card I can think of is higher cpu usage....

Chiz

 

[Kingofcomputer]

if it's equalivant to the sound card to you want to buy, no disadvantage.
let's say you want sb live, and you buy the creative motherboard with onboard sb live chip, no disadvantage.
let's say you want sb audigy 2, and you buy a motherboard with onboard sb audigy 1 (imagine), big disadvantage, you waste the onboard audigy 1.

let's get back to real life,
most motherboards just use chipset embedded sound engine for the onboard sound, just need to add an AC97 codec chip and some jacks, it almost doesn't cost extra to the motherboard manufacturer and to you, you can just ignore it.
some manufacturers like Asus spends extra to use Cmedia 8738 chip (a complete audio controller like sb live) instead of the chipset embedded sound engine, which costs more to Asus and to you. The huge price difference between Asus motherboard and other brands are combined by quality, performance, brand name, and mainly the Cmedia 8738 chip.

 

[Peter]

See, that's the kind of myths I am talking about.

CMI 8738 costs no more than an AC97 codec with the same features, like their own 9738 or Realtek's ALC650. PCI sound has the DRAWBACK of being on the much slower PCI bus, while chipset integrated sound has a much speedier datapath into the system - and doesn't eat away from your precious PCI bandwidth.

Besides, analog output quality largely depends on layout quality of the board, not so much on the devices used. And it's easier to achieve when the audio device isn't near any high speed bus like PCI.

Come on folks, using the search function isn't hard. We've had all that.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

No way.
CMI 8738 is a full audio controller chip with built-in AC97 codec, cannot be same price as AC97 codec only chip.
Call Cmedia and ask for the price of CMI 8738 and 9739.

 

[Peter]

Look in your local store and see for yourself ... PCI card with CMI8738-6CH on, $19 or even less if you buy bulk. How much do you think the chip costs?

Besides, for the non-monetary reasons I stated above, mainboard makers are less and less inclined to put PCI audio chips on, adding a political slant to the pricing of the devices.

 

[WicKeD]

Plan and simple for us "DIYers" On-Board anything sucks...

Who the hell would spend $$$ on 1066Rdram based system and use the On-board audio????

When are Asus, Abit and Soyo gonna give us an option not to have anything onboard?

It will eventually go the was of the CNR and AMR slots.. haa what a joke they were....

 

[Kingofcomputer]

in business world, saving 1 penny is saving 1 penny.
they're not just buying 10, 100, or 1000 pieces, they're buying at least 5-6 digit qty. per month.

 

[Peter]

Originally posted by: Kingofcomputer
in business world, saving 1 penny is saving 1 penny.
they're not just buying 10, 100, or 1000 pieces, they're buying at least 5-6 digit qty. per month.

Tell me more As I said, PCI audio chips are under heavy pricing pressure right now, because thanks to the fast chipset audio engines and advanced AC97 codecs, they are pretty much redundant. CMI8738 is among those, just look at how many mainboards used to have it, and how quickly it disappeared again over the past few months.

Most makers of audio chips have bailed out of making PCI devices at all. Only a few high end ones remain, like Audigy or VIA's Envy24 to whom chipset audio is no match are sold at non-dumping prices right now ... and if you ask me, CMI 8738 won't be around for much longer.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

I can only see Asus and Soyo motherboards have it, while Gigabyte uses Creative 5880 on -P series only.
All other manufacturers just use cheaper AC97 codec with the chipset embedded sound.
The reason is simple - they need to cut cost by not using CMI 8738 in order to make a more competitive selling price.

 

[Peter]

It never occured to you that with the chipset+codec solutions getting more advanced (plus being on a faster bus), there's just no reason to go PCI anymore? (Again, except for truly high end solutions.)

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Kingofcomputer
I can only see Asus and Soyo motherboards have it, while Gigabyte uses Creative 5880 on -P series only.
All other manufacturers just use cheaper AC97 codec with the chipset embedded sound.
The reason is simple - they need to cut cost by not using CMI 8738 in order to make a more competitive selling price.

Actually, quite a few use the CMI chipsets - or, even the Realtek chipsets. Does this mean more manufacturers are stepping away from AC97 solutions?

 

[Kingofcomputer]

Actually, quite a few use the CMI chipsets - or, even the Realtek chipsets. Does this mean more manufacturers are stepping away from AC97 solutions?

AC97 is an Intel standard/specification for the codec.
Realtek chip is just a codec chip, a partner chip for the chipset's embedded sound engine/controller.
CMI 8738 is not codec, it's a complete audio controller chip with built-in codec, like SB Live's Emu2K chip, TBSC's CS4630 chip.
CMI also has pure codec chip, it's 9739 (for 6ch) and 97xx for fewer channels.

Manufacturers are not stepping away from AC97 solution, they're enjoying it. Every modern chipset has embedded sound controller, motherboard manufacturers just need to add a cheap codec to make the motherboard has onboard audio.

A simple demostration of audio controller chip with built-in AC97 codec vs pure AC97 codec:
CS4630
CS4297A

 

[rnmcd]

So did we ever decide which mobos would be a good option?

 

[Kingofcomputer]

what do you want?
basic sound - any motherboard using chipset embedded sound or onboard low-cost CMI 8738 or CT5880.
sb live? - creative pc/motherboard, it has onboard sb live, too bad it's BX motherboard, sort of outdated, forget about this.
something like sb audigy, audigy2, tbsc? - any motherboard plus the real sound card.

 

[Frodolives]

I know you clearly stated support for P4, but otherwise I'd be wondering if the Biostar M7VIP would look good to you. $65 shipped, and nice user reviews thus far. Forgive my AMDness

 

[Kingofcomputer]

intel chipset motherboard with ICH4 is a good choice.
the embedded sound controller in ICH4 is pretty good, most motherboards use it with ALC650 AC97 codec, supports 6 ch, using line-in and mic-in for the 3-6th ch, select by software, has environment sound effect, voice cancellation for karaoke, change key for karaoke, software equalizer.

 

[jazzmaster221]

the biggest disadvantage is the lack of speaker jacks on most of the mobo's ...i use my line in for recording vinyl lp's from my turntable to wave files then i encode them to mp3's ..the one speaker jack is very tacky...you need a left and a right speaker jack a line in and the mic. i have the albatron kx 400 pro and it only has a speaker out line in and a mic jack.....i'll stick to my sound blaster live