Are there any advantages to soundstorm for non gamers?

[coolred]

I know everybody has been in an uproar, since it didn't make it into the nForce 3 boards. I am currentlly building an HTPC/PVR and am debating of going with an A64(which is probablly more power then what I need) or an AXP. I am just trying to cover all the bases on this. From what I understand soundstorm basically just encodes any multi channel sound output to dolby digital so that it can be output via SPDIF rather then the analog outputs right? I can see the benefit in multi channel gaming.

But for DVD's, MP3's, and record TV, is there any benefit? I coudl see a benefit to DVD's, but doesn't the DVD player software decode the sound to DD? So that wouldn't have anything to do with soundstorm, right? Basically if you can fill in any holes in my info,t hat would be great. I am just trying to find out if having soundstorm is aplus inthe AXP column or an NA.

 

[Acanthus]

The SNR is solid on certified motherboards (102db?)

Its not top of the line, but the sound quality in games, movies, mp3s, whatever is going to be better than integrated on almost every other chipset.

It pretty much lies somewhere between the Audigy 1 and Audigy 2 for overall sound quality.

Edit: SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio (a measurement of sound distortion) (remember that decibal ratings are NOT linear, its logarithmic, so 50db is not half of 100db.

 

[CZroe]

I'm currently torn over SoundStorm. I just bought a set of Logitech Z-680's for my planned HTPC and SoundStorm is the perfect technology to match. HOWEVER, the HTPC will be transfering HUGE files over the network. DVD images, time-shifted content, PVR recordings, automated weekly networked HDD image backups, etc. Gigabit is a must. But the new nForce3 250gb and Gigabit version of the nForce2 nix SoundStorm. Unless someone makes an AGP Gigabit adapter like ATI made AGP Firewire, there is no way to do this correctly (PCI limits Gigabit's speed).

AFAIK, DVD software decodes DTS for your soundcard's discrete outputs. Because SoundStorm is the only consumer PC sound card which can output DTS, there is no reason for a software maker to figure out how to send DTS right out to your DTS decoder. SoundStorm's DTS encoding will output all normally discrete channels as a single DTS signal when you tell it to by reencoding on the fly. It will make DTS signal out of all the discrete channels.

I'm just figuring it all out, but this is how I understand it.

Normal DVD player:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD player outputs an unmodified DTS signal>Audio receiver decodes DTS and outputs to discrete speakers. This is how it is meant to work. This way, each device does not need their own speakers, a direct connection to every speaker or a switch to share them.

PC DVD software with Audigy or other 5.1-7.1 sound card:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD software decodes DTS into the discrete channels and sends to the soundcard hardware>Soundcard outputs to speakers with direct and discrete connections for each speaker. Output has not been sent to a sound system. Your PC *IS* the sound system. This is not adequate for HTPCs because it can not be connected to your elaborate digital surround sound system that compliments and connects to everything else.

PC DVD software with SoundStorm:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD software decodes DTS into the discrete channels and sends to the soundcard hardware>SoundStorm's on-the-fly DTS encoding recreates a DTS signal from the discrete tracks and sends to the receiver>Receiver decodes DTS and sends to deiscrete speakers.

Because the Logitech Z-680's decode DTS and I can not afford a traditional receiver, I MUST HAVE SoundStorm! I guess that seals it. I MUST make my Media Center Edition PC out of a damn old traditional AthlonXP Why doesn't nVidia see the need to release a truely all-in-one motherboard chipset? Hell, I want DVI output on the damn motherboard for my TV. HTPCs are supposed to be low profile and people don't want to "Pick only two" when it comes to HDTV tuner, Gigabit NIC, video card and sound card.

I still don't know how I'm going to do this at all without a standard-fare MicroATX PC. HDTV Wonder + SN45G SFF nForce 2 w/SoundStorm + Gigabit NIC + Modern video card with DVI output? You can't put all that in a Shuttle SFF.

 

[Acanthus]

As far as i know, both I875 and Nforce 3 boards have on chip gigabit lan, its not on the PCI bus.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
As far as i know, both I875 and Nforce 3 boards have on chip gigabit lan, its not on the PCI bus.

Yep. And neither has SoundStorm It's a trade-off no matter how you look at it.


BTW, i865/i875p Gigabit implementations are not technically "on chip." The chips have a nice high-speed "back door" around the PCI bus for a companion chip that must also be integrated on the motherboard. It's optional and up to the motherboard manufacturer to purchase and implement per model.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: Acanthus
As far as i know, both I875 and Nforce 3 boards have on chip gigabit lan, its not on the PCI bus.

Yep. And neither has SoundStorm It's a trade-off no matter how you look at it.


BTW, i865/i875p Gigabit implementations are not technically "on chip." The chips have a nice high-speed "back door" around the PCI bus for a companion chip that must also be integrated on the motherboard. It's optional and up to the motherboard manufacturer to purchase and implement per model.

What are the odds that you'll be limited by the PCI bus when transferring those files?
Say it can handle 80-90 MB/Sec in pratice, what HD do you have to sustain those kinds of transfer rates?

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: CZroe
I'm currently torn over SoundStorm. I just bought a set of Logitech Z-680's for my planned HTPC and SoundStorm is the perfect technology to match. HOWEVER, the HTPC will be transfering HUGE files over the network. DVD images, time-shifted content, PVR recordings, automated weekly networked HDD image backups, etc. Gigabit is a must. But the new nForce3 250gb and Gigabit version of the nForce2 nix SoundStorm. Unless someone makes an AGP Gigabit adapter like ATI made AGP Firewire, there is no way to do this correctly (PCI limits Gigabit's speed).

AFAIK, DVD software decodes DTS for your soundcard's discrete outputs. Because SoundStorm is the only consumer PC sound card which can output DTS, there is no reason for a software maker to figure out how to send DTS right out to your DTS decoder. SoundStorm's DTS encoding will output all normally discrete channels as a single DTS signal when you tell it to by reencoding on the fly. It will make DTS signal out of all the discrete channels.

I'm just figuring it all out, but this is how I understand it.

Normal DVD player:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD player outputs an unmodified DTS signal>Audio receiver decodes DTS and outputs to discrete speakers. This is how it is meant to work. This way, each device does not need their own speakers, a direct connection to every speaker or a switch to share them.

PC DVD software with Audigy or other 5.1-7.1 sound card:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD software decodes DTS into the discrete channels and sends to the soundcard hardware>Soundcard outputs to speakers with direct and discrete connections for each speaker. Output has not been sent to a sound system. Your PC *IS* the sound system. This is not adequate for HTPCs because it can not be connected to your elaborate digital surround sound system that compliments and connects to everything else.

Not quite correct, at least for the Audigy lines. The Audigy cards allow you to send the raw AC3 audio tracks out the coaxial/optical outputs to a receiver. Its a toggle in the drivers, I don't know if other sound cards have the option or not.

PC DVD software with SoundStorm:
DVD DTS Audio track>DVD software decodes DTS into the discrete channels and sends to the soundcard hardware>SoundStorm's on-the-fly DTS encoding recreates a DTS signal from the discrete tracks and sends to the receiver>Receiver decodes DTS and sends to deiscrete speakers.

Because the Logitech Z-680's decode DTS and I can not afford a traditional receiver, I MUST HAVE SoundStorm! I guess that seals it. I MUST make my Media Center Edition PC out of a damn old traditional AthlonXP Why doesn't nVidia see the need to release a truely all-in-one motherboard chipset? Hell, I want DVI output on the damn motherboard for my TV. HTPCs are supposed to be low profile and people don't want to "Pick only two" when it comes to HDTV tuner, Gigabit NIC, video card and sound card.

I still don't know how I'm going to do this at all without a standard-fare MicroATX PC. HDTV Wonder + SN45G SFF nForce 2 w/SoundStorm + Gigabit NIC + Modern video card with DVI output? You can't put all that in a Shuttle SFF.

Close but not quite. SoundStorm will encode to DD 5.1 on the fly (not DTS). However, if you have it set to do the DD encoding and it encounters an audio stream that is already DD/DTS, then it will pass that directly along to the coaxial/optical output.

The benefit of SoundStorm is that all normal audio output is DD 5.1. This means your Divx, SVCD, VCD, MP3s, and TV have audio information for all channels including a low frequency channel. With the NVMixer you can redirect all frequencies below a threshold to the LFE channel, along with setting a delay for the surround speakers. This allows you to tune the DD 5.1 output for your room and speakers.

Without SoundStorm you would get 5.1 sound while watching your dvd, but just standard stereo at all other times (unless your receiver has options for redirecting standard stereo to all speakers, but that usually isn't as configurable as the SoundStorm encoding options).

The simplicity of a computer with SoundStorm connected to a receiver is wonderful. Our receiver just sits on DD/DTS input at all times and we get excellent sound quality.

 

[ForceCalibur]

Why not buy the Audigy 2 cards? Either way you look at it, they are better than Soundstorm (and after reading so much about it, I still can't figure what the hell it is except for a catchy name)

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: ForceCalibur
Why not buy the Audigy 2 cards? Either way you look at it, they are better than Soundstorm (and after reading so much about it, I still can't figure what the hell it is except for a catchy name)

I had an audigy 2 platinum, my htpc now uses SoundStorm.

The computer is connected to our receiver through a single coaxial cable, this means unless the audio source was originally DD/DTS the Audigy 2 was outputting only stereo. After using the receiver for several months to take that stereo input and map sound to all speakers and now listening to SoundStorm do DD 5.1 encoding on the fly, I like the job the SoundStorm does better. Granted I don't use a $5000 receiver (its a Kenwood VR-716), so a real audiophile might have a different opinion.

 

[wetcat007]

imo nvidia could produce the soundstorm onboard sound as a seperate card and compete quite well, although they'd need to update eax stuff to have eax4 and so on.

 

[RedShirt]

You can do DD and DTS on DVDs without soundstorm.

What I did was use the 2 pin digital wire (not the normal analog connection, the digital SPDIF) from the back of the DVD-ROM and connect it to the digital spdif in of the soundcard.

This will pass the DD, DTS streams right to the soundcard which in turn passes it out the optical or coax out to the receiver.

If you are going with a mobo with integrated sound, you gotta make sure it has that 2 pin connector.

I do not know if it can be done without the cable... It is possible (Just like digital audio extraction on CDs), but there would have to be support for it.

Edit:
If you tried playing VOB files not off a DVD... I have no idea if it'd work. I don't think it would...

 

[RedShirt]

You could also get an Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe Nforce2 board. It has integrated gigabit LAN, soundstorm, and I believe a Coax out??? (Someone help me with this one...)

Edit... NM!!! This is SFF!!! I forgot. Sorry.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: Acanthus
As far as i know, both I875 and Nforce 3 boards have on chip gigabit lan, its not on the PCI bus.

Yep. And neither has SoundStorm It's a trade-off no matter how you look at it.


BTW, i865/i875p Gigabit implementations are not technically "on chip." The chips have a nice high-speed "back door" around the PCI bus for a companion chip that must also be integrated on the motherboard. It's optional and up to the motherboard manufacturer to purchase and implement per model.

What are the odds that you'll be limited by the PCI bus when transferring those files?
Say it can handle 80-90 MB/Sec in pratice, what HD do you have to sustain those kinds of transfer rates?

6x120GB 1200JB Array + 128MB additional SDRAM cache (Soon to be 256MB cache)
(I think that's like the hundreth-time I linked that pic today )

 

[coolred]

I just must be stupid, i don't see the point. If I use my stand alone DVD player(PS2) then it will output my DVD's to all channels, if I use a softwar eDVD player on the HTPC it will also output my DVD's to all channels. I won't be gaming on this rig, so multichannel gaming makes no differance to me. Now if I record and television show that is broadcast in stereo normally it would be outputed by my speakers in stereo. But your sayign with soundstorm it can miracuously make this multichannel as in surround sound? Or are you just saying I will hear the sound coming out of all my speakers?

What about if I record a show brocast in Dolby Digital, will that be recorded as DD and then otu put in surround sound dolby digital?

 

[aug1516]

Originally posted by: coolred
But your sayign with soundstorm it can miracuously make this multichannel as in surround sound? Or are you just saying I will hear the sound coming out of all my speakers?

Probably. Soundstorm will take any Direct Sound signal, which is just about every sound output on your PC and will encode it into an AC3 5.1 stream. It uses some algorithms to decipher the sound signal and put it into 5.1 channels of audio. It does not just duplicate the sound across all speakers. It actually tries to simulate an accurate center channel, surround sound, etc. Most of the time it does a good job from what I have heard on my friends system.

Originally posted by: coolred What about if I record a show brocast in Dolby Digital, will that be recorded as DD and then otu put in surround sound dolby digital?

I guess that would depend on how you are recording a TV broadcast. If you could record an HDTV signal in pure digital form including audio data then I guess you could play that back and still have 5.1 audio. So the answer to your question would depend on how you recorded the broadcast and what program you were using the play it back. The program would also have to recognize it has a DD signal and then send that to the sound system.

Check out this great review of Soundstorm for more info.

http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/reviews/nForce/

 

[Nebor]

Soundstorm is decent for HTPC. I don't believe it can do bitperfect digital output, but it should be decent enough provided you turn off the DD encoding. You definitely do not want your stereo music encoded into DD to be sent to your reciever, you can just send it through PCM. DD is a lossy format, and music is no good in it.

So you can switch the encoding on for games and stuff, and then switch it off for movies\music.

Certainly there are better cards out there for HTPCs, but a free one sure is nice.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: RedShirt
You can do DD and DTS on DVDs without soundstorm.

What I did was use the 2 pin digital wire (not the normal analog connection, the digital SPDIF) from the back of the DVD-ROM and connect it to the digital spdif in of the soundcard.

This will pass the DD, DTS streams right to the soundcard which in turn passes it out the optical or coax out to the receiver.

If you are going with a mobo with integrated sound, you gotta make sure it has that 2 pin connector.

I do not know if it can be done without the cable... It is possible (Just like digital audio extraction on CDs), but there would have to be support for it.

Edit:
If you tried playing VOB files not off a DVD... I have no idea if it'd work. I don't think it would...

That cable is useless. The data passes digitally and perfectly over the PCI bus. But if you feel the need to have another cable in your case, be my guest.

 

[lazybum131]

Originally posted by: coolred
I won't be gaming on this rig, so multichannel gaming makes no differance to me. Now if I record and television show that is broadcast in stereo normally it would be outputed by my speakers in stereo. But your sayign with soundstorm it can miracuously make this multichannel as in surround sound? Or are you just saying I will hear the sound coming out of all my speakers?

Soundstorm will upmix stereo to multichannel. If your receiver can do Pro-Logic II, which will upmix to 5.1 in what I suppose is a similar way to Soundstorm, then you wouldn't need Soundstorm. The advantages I see for Soundstorm for HTPC purposes are 1) Games (which as u said is a non-issue for you) and 2) No additional cost if you are already getting a Nforce2 mobo that has it.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: CZroe

Originally posted by: Acanthus
As far as i know, both I875 and Nforce 3 boards have on chip gigabit lan, its not on the PCI bus.

Yep. And neither has SoundStorm It's a trade-off no matter how you look at it.


BTW, i865/i875p Gigabit implementations are not technically "on chip." The chips have a nice high-speed "back door" around the PCI bus for a companion chip that must also be integrated on the motherboard. It's optional and up to the motherboard manufacturer to purchase and implement per model.

What are the odds that you'll be limited by the PCI bus when transferring those files?
Say it can handle 80-90 MB/Sec in pratice, what HD do you have to sustain those kinds of transfer rates?

6x120GB 1200JB Array + 128MB additional SDRAM cache (Soon to be 256MB cache)
(I think that's like the hundreth-time I linked that pic today )

My finding with Adaptec SCSIBench suggests that the PCI bus on nForce classic and nForce2 peaks around 120-122MB/sec. Kind of like... this. And from a quick look at XBit Labs' review of the SX6000, it appears that 120MB/sec is much higher than the card can sustain IRL in a RAID5 configuration. Maybe the cache will help somewhat. Also remember that the client systems can still be the bottleneck no matter how fast your server's network connection is.

So my advice would be to heave your RAID card into a Soundstorm-certified board, slap in an Intel Pro/1000MT desktop gigabit NIC, hitch it up to your gigabit switch and call it a well-researched compromise solution. Abit or Asus come to mind for the boards, since their manuals show the IRQ-sharing setup of the PCI slots where many brands do not. The Abit has the desirable ATX12V connector as well, and costs less too.