everyday on my way to work i drive down a narrow four lane street with forest preserve on either side and every day i see at least 4 or 5 dead animals on the road the majority of them are racoons but i have also seen squirrls,possoms,and even a very large deer. anyway my point is that if you do the math there are something like 35 racoons getting run over every week! you would think that after seeing so many of there friends killed that the raccons would stay away from the road but no they still turn up dead. this leads me to belive that they are killing them selves, they are purposely running into traffic. Why? well i think that it has to do with the fact that alot of thier habitat has been turned into condos so seeing that there home is beeing destroyed they get depressed and kill them selves. do any of you agree?
are the woodland creatures commiting suicide?!
- Thread starter bigvince
- Start date
Yes. They realize that we are destroying their habitat and have joined the Cult of the Kamikazi Fauna. Their hope is that with each death, the Great Mother Squirrel will become stronger and eventually be able to reclaim the forests and fields for those who remain!
Isla are you mocking me?! just kidding and btw i'm totaly serious what other reason is there for all those dead animals?
no, no! I am not mocking you. That was an attempt on my part to be funny, sorry! Sometimes I hit, sometimes I miss. Didn't mean to confuse you.
I actually have had the same thought as you before. I have wondered if they do it out of a sense of hopelessness and despair.
Who knows?
I actually have had the same thought as you before. I have wondered if they do it out of a sense of hopelessness and despair.
Who knows?
Of course animals feel hopeless at times. They have moods and mood swings just as humans do. I would feel bad to if I looked around and my home was being destroyed. Whats really sad is the animals really don't have anywhere to go, and people get pissed when they wonder into their yards. I'm sorry, but if we take away their home then where in the hell are they suppose to go? We are such inconsiderate assholes. I would never tear down the woods behind my home. I want it to be there, so the animals have somewhere to live. Besides I like to watch the rabbits, birds, and squirrels in my yard. The beauty of nature is being destroyed for ugly high rise buildings that will one day be abandoned. The animals would still be using that land if it was never stolen from them.
Don't get me started on the rainforest either!! :|
Don't get me started on the rainforest either!! :|
Fetts,
i love your passion on the subject and i feel equally as strong. i feel it necasary to mention that the cook county(as in chicago,il) forest preseve is responsible for selling the land in question the irony being that this land was originaly set aside as a forest PRESRVE and they are doing anything but preserving it.
i love your passion on the subject and i feel equally as strong. i feel it necasary to mention that the cook county(as in chicago,il) forest preseve is responsible for selling the land in question the irony being that this land was originaly set aside as a forest PRESRVE and they are doing anything but preserving it.
I have to agree with FettsBabe. We are encroaching on their natural habitats, where do we really expect them to go other than smack dab in the middle of the roads we keep building? I'm noticing a higher than average number of dead animals on the highways too (although in Wisconsin at this time of year, it's not unusual, especially as the deer population starts to go into rut).
On a completely unrelated note, Isla, that elf is really throwing me. I keep expecting it to be Paulson, but then I hear your usually poetic contributions and get a headache.
On a completely unrelated note, Isla, that elf is really throwing me. I keep expecting it to be Paulson, but then I hear your usually poetic contributions and get a headache.
I seriously doubt that deer, raccoons, and the like are capable of emotions as complex as despair or depression. That said, I think that the reason they keep running out into roads is a hunger issue. The out of control populations of these animals combined with an ever shrinking living area means that there isn't enough food to go around. Thus, they search for food, which often means crossing roads. You see where I'm going.
Not capable of emotions...
Did you know that experiments were done on these types of animals as well as on dogs and cats? They were shocked to see if they could develop the emotion of hopelessness. It was documented that these animals did develop these complex emotions. This was covered in my college psychology class.
It's foolish to believe that we are the only one's capable of having these emotions. It's these beliefs that allow people to destroy an animal, it's habitat with little or no conscience what-so-ever!!
Respect will take you a long way in life, but so does common sense.
Did you know that experiments were done on these types of animals as well as on dogs and cats? They were shocked to see if they could develop the emotion of hopelessness. It was documented that these animals did develop these complex emotions. This was covered in my college psychology class.
It's foolish to believe that we are the only one's capable of having these emotions. It's these beliefs that allow people to destroy an animal, it's habitat with little or no conscience what-so-ever!!
Respect will take you a long way in life, but so does common sense.
CGirl
Sorry! Just a few more hours, and I will be 'me' again! Actually, I want to petition for a Palm Tree icon. Consider the elf as part of me making a statement for just a little more variety in avatars.
BTW, I am a tree hugger and dang proud of it! One of my biggest victories has been convincing my Republican husband that the environment is a critically important issue... perhaps the most important issue.
And for all those non-believers, there have been quite a few studies done lately that have proven animals indeed have emotions. I'll try to dig up some case studies... I have some info around here somewhere.
Fetts...
Yes, you remember well. That is 'learned hopelessness'.
Sorry! Just a few more hours, and I will be 'me' again! Actually, I want to petition for a Palm Tree icon. Consider the elf as part of me making a statement for just a little more variety in avatars. BTW, I am a tree hugger and dang proud of it! One of my biggest victories has been convincing my Republican husband that the environment is a critically important issue... perhaps the most important issue.
And for all those non-believers, there have been quite a few studies done lately that have proven animals indeed have emotions. I'll try to dig up some case studies... I have some info around here somewhere.
Fetts...
Yes, you remember well. That is 'learned hopelessness'.
I'm not denying that animals are emotional. Dogs are a perfect example of that. I just think that they don't have the depth and breadth of emotions that humans do. I just can't picture a raccoon plodding through the forest bemoaning the meaninglessness of life and the destruction of his habitat, and deciding to throw himself in front of a car. It's just silly to me. What's much more likely is that he's starving, and while he knows that the road is *bad* and *scary* he crosses anyway because he can't find any food.
As far as the research you heard about... can they even pinpoint hopelessness in humans? Can they hook someone up to one of those brainwave thingamajigs and say "He's feeling hopeless", or "He's in a sarcastic mood today"? Yes, they can see general differences with strong emotions (rage, depression, fear, etc.), but complex emotions? And that's with humans, when they can _tell_ the researcher how they feel. Rocky raccoon can't lie down on a couch and tell someone how he feels. All people can do is guess.
Anyway, my original point was not to get into a big debate on why humans are evil, and why we destroy wildlife, and blah blah... It was to give my theory on why so many animals get run over.
As far as the research you heard about... can they even pinpoint hopelessness in humans? Can they hook someone up to one of those brainwave thingamajigs and say "He's feeling hopeless", or "He's in a sarcastic mood today"? Yes, they can see general differences with strong emotions (rage, depression, fear, etc.), but complex emotions? And that's with humans, when they can _tell_ the researcher how they feel. Rocky raccoon can't lie down on a couch and tell someone how he feels. All people can do is guess.
Anyway, my original point was not to get into a big debate on why humans are evil, and why we destroy wildlife, and blah blah... It was to give my theory on why so many animals get run over.
fetts,
right on the money again...
i belive that animals are capable of complex emotions they would have to be living in the world we do.
right on the money again...
i belive that animals are capable of complex emotions they would have to be living in the world we do.
Wouldn't deny that animals are capable of emotion, especially mammals and 'some' birds, but I think the problem you describe is more a failure to stop and look both ways.
Engine,
You are absolutely right. All emotions are constructs. You are also right about why the animals end up as road kill. At least, that is what makes sense to me. I think we are just having fun farting around here.... I least I am. It is a fart around at ATOT day, so forgive me for being a little silly!
BTW... I'm not debating or arguing anything. I am probably the most accomodating and easy going person you will ever meet on-line. I just like to educate, so if I can get someone to read a book/study on a subject I think is worthwhile and then let them form opinions from there, I am happy!
You are absolutely right. All emotions are constructs. You are also right about why the animals end up as road kill. At least, that is what makes sense to me. I think we are just having fun farting around here.... I least I am. It is a fart around at ATOT day, so forgive me for being a little silly!
BTW... I'm not debating or arguing anything. I am probably the most accomodating and easy going person you will ever meet on-line. I just like to educate, so if I can get someone to read a book/study on a subject I think is worthwhile and then let them form opinions from there, I am happy!
kami
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 17,627
- 5
- 81
I bet the racoon population is just going up...and when you have roads going in between a bush/forrest or some area where they live, there are going to be many deaths. Commiting suicide? No. It's just their inferior intelligence at work.
Besides, racoons are just scavengers who go through garbage for the most part. There is no lack of "habitat" for them.
Besides, racoons are just scavengers who go through garbage for the most part. There is no lack of "habitat" for them.
I don't know if I would go so far as to say they are committing suicide, though I will admit I had not really given it any thought before now. Animals are capable of so many emotions, of that I have no doubt. Even tiny ants will help out other ants when they are hurt, and try to carry them to safety. Dogs will die to protect their owners, and other kinds of animals have been known to help out humans when they need it. So I suppose they could be driven to feeling desperate also.
<< you would think that after seeing so many of there friends killed that the raccons would stay away from the road but no they still turn up dead >>
Humans continue to smoke. You'd think after learning about all the health risks to themselves and others they wouldn't. But they still turn up dead.
I just read about an airport that's having trouble with some white-tail deer. This airport has a perimeter fence and one time in the winter when the snow was high about two dozen deer jumped the fence and are now living inside the perimeter. According to the airport, the deer pose a threat to aircraft takeoffs and landings. They've tried trapping the deer but without much success (deer don't get the name "wily" for nothing!). So they got a license to bring in sharpshooters from out east someplace to terminate the deer.
My feeling is this: humans are more important then deer. No question. So the deer must go. But! Why bring in sharpshooters to kill the deer when you can tranquilize them and haul them out to the nearby open habitat? They didn't even consider this option. Another was to hire one or a coupla people to monitor and to chase off the deer when they approach the runways. I'm sure any number of zero-to-low income earners would love an opportunity to feel needed and make some extra money. But the sharpshooters, I reckon, are the easiest/costliest method to deal with this problem.
Humans continue to smoke. You'd think after learning about all the health risks to themselves and others they wouldn't. But they still turn up dead.
I just read about an airport that's having trouble with some white-tail deer. This airport has a perimeter fence and one time in the winter when the snow was high about two dozen deer jumped the fence and are now living inside the perimeter. According to the airport, the deer pose a threat to aircraft takeoffs and landings. They've tried trapping the deer but without much success (deer don't get the name "wily" for nothing!). So they got a license to bring in sharpshooters from out east someplace to terminate the deer.
My feeling is this: humans are more important then deer. No question. So the deer must go. But! Why bring in sharpshooters to kill the deer when you can tranquilize them and haul them out to the nearby open habitat? They didn't even consider this option. Another was to hire one or a coupla people to monitor and to chase off the deer when they approach the runways. I'm sure any number of zero-to-low income earners would love an opportunity to feel needed and make some extra money. But the sharpshooters, I reckon, are the easiest/costliest method to deal with this problem.
<<Humans continue to smoke. You'd think after learning about all the health risks to themselves and others they wouldn't. But they still turn up>>
i didn't think of that jelly...
why would they just kill them instead of relocating them? if cost is the only reason then there's a real problem with thier thinking.
i didn't think of that jelly...
why would they just kill them instead of relocating them? if cost is the only reason then there's a real problem with thier thinking.
Humans are not MORE important. As the Lion King states there's a circle of life. When animals die or become extinct other animals lose their source of food. The chain is left unbalanced.
Do you realize that if we keep building high rises, roads, condo's, etc. that the land we use to cultivate will disappear? What will we do for food? Here's what we will do...we will have to tear down these things and plant a garden, so we can feed our community. Look at China they have to control their poplation due to the same kind of problems. They can't produce enough food if their population gets doubled or tripled. What you will find is people starving in the streets. What will we do when we tear these buildings down? Its got to go somewhere, and people don't want it in their backyard, so it would probably get dumped in some body of water, which pollutes the environment further. The US still has a chance to correct their problems. To bad enough people don't care enough to look around and help clean some of this crap up.
Look at the Nile river. Many years ago Egypt they wanted help from the US and other countries to build a dam. The US wouldn't help because they said the silt and soil would not replenish the land if the dam was built. What happens? They build the dam, and the soil is building up in one place, which is leaving the once fertile Nile environment barren. Each year the soil gets less fertile. Before, nature was allowing the river to flood once a year, which left new topsoil along the river banks. Now this doesn't happen. My point is, without nature we will run out of food. Maybe we should work with it rather than fight and destroy it. Just my opinion. I'm kinda discussing this like Isla - Just to educate. I feel we are very uneducated when it comes to nature.
Do you realize that if we keep building high rises, roads, condo's, etc. that the land we use to cultivate will disappear? What will we do for food? Here's what we will do...we will have to tear down these things and plant a garden, so we can feed our community. Look at China they have to control their poplation due to the same kind of problems. They can't produce enough food if their population gets doubled or tripled. What you will find is people starving in the streets. What will we do when we tear these buildings down? Its got to go somewhere, and people don't want it in their backyard, so it would probably get dumped in some body of water, which pollutes the environment further. The US still has a chance to correct their problems. To bad enough people don't care enough to look around and help clean some of this crap up.
Look at the Nile river. Many years ago Egypt they wanted help from the US and other countries to build a dam. The US wouldn't help because they said the silt and soil would not replenish the land if the dam was built. What happens? They build the dam, and the soil is building up in one place, which is leaving the once fertile Nile environment barren. Each year the soil gets less fertile. Before, nature was allowing the river to flood once a year, which left new topsoil along the river banks. Now this doesn't happen. My point is, without nature we will run out of food. Maybe we should work with it rather than fight and destroy it. Just my opinion. I'm kinda discussing this like Isla - Just to educate. I feel we are very uneducated when it comes to nature.
i am not sure if this was mentioned since i only skipped through some of the responces, but that i know of, animals approach the roads at night cause of the warmth that the road is releasing, as you know the road gets awfully hot during the day, the contant sun & cars running over it, then at night they cool off releasing the heat, animals enjoy warmth, so they come up to it, headlights come into play, most animals freeze when shined in the face with bright light, then its all over another dead animal :--(
dam(possums)
dam(possums)
DAM
You are right, and I do know that some animals freeze in the middle of the road because that is how they avoid predators.
Animal:
Oh, something's coming! Don't move!
SUV coming down the highway:
THUNK!
FettsBabe
Hey, I bet you and I have more in common than you originally may have thought. Don't worry, when all the men have become women after all the xenoestrogens in our environment have given them a chemical sex change, they will see things our way.
oh, and BTW.... I'm beginning to think being an elf is having a very strange affect on me!!!! I feel.... elfy!
You are right, and I do know that some animals freeze in the middle of the road because that is how they avoid predators.
Animal:
Oh, something's coming! Don't move!
SUV coming down the highway:
THUNK!
FettsBabe
Hey, I bet you and I have more in common than you originally may have thought. Don't worry, when all the men have become women after all the xenoestrogens in our environment have given them a chemical sex change, they will see things our way.
oh, and BTW.... I'm beginning to think being an elf is having a very strange affect on me!!!! I feel.... elfy!
Its a great time to feel elfy...Christmas is right around the corner. Just add up your paychecks between now and then.
Chemical Sex Change - LMAO!!! Thats funny.
Chemical Sex Change - LMAO!!! Thats funny.
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