Are the police out of control?

WetSprocket

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
543
0
0
I think its time that we as a people take back our freedoms and get government were it belongs, protecting us and making our lives better.

This is a quote.

Boy Killed in Drug War That Is Not A War

U.S. Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey insists that the Drug War
really isn't a War at all. "Wars are waged with weapons and
soldiers," he has said. "Furthermore, we do not wage battles
against our own children, spouses, colleagues, and
neighbors."

Yet somehow children, spouses, colleagues, and neighbors
persist in getting themselves shot and killed in this
non-War.

One of the latest is 11-year-old Alberto Sepulveda, shot to
death by a California SWAT team one minute after an
early-morning raid on his family's Modesto home, September
13.

The SWAT team was serving a federal arrest warrant for
Alberto's father, on drug charges. The "serving" began with
police smashing the front door down and hurling a smoke bomb
into the home. Eleven-year-old Alberto was shot in the back
of the head by a police shotgun while he lay face-down on his
bedroom floor, as police commanded him to do. Police say the
shooting was an accident.

The Orange County Register described the raid as a
"military-style assault on citizens." Yet such paramilitary
Drug War raids are remarkably common -- there have been
thousands during the past few years. And, according to law
professor Peter Kraska of Eastern Kentucky University, there
have been at least 230 incidents nationwide during the past
five years in which someone was injured or killed during
military-style SWAT team assaults on private residences.

Sharon Dolovich of UCLA's School of Law told about some of
these victims in the Los Angeles Times after Alberto's
killing.

Mario Paz was asleep with her husband in their Compton,
California home at 11 pm in August 1999 when 20 SWAT team
members blasted the locks off the front and back doors and
raided the home. Paz was shot twice in the back. There was no
warrant, no drugs were found, no drug charges were made.

Ismael Mena, a 45-year-old Denver father of nine, was shot
and killed September 1999 in his bedroom by SWAT team raiders
assaulting the wrong home.

Ramon Gallardo of Dinuba, Calif., was shot 15 times in 1997
by a SWAT team searching for his son.

Rev. Accelyne Williams of Boston, 75, was so terrified by a
Boston SWAT team raid on his home in 1994 that he died of a
heart attack. Oops, sorry -- the SWAT team had raided the
wrong apartment.

Texas police during a no-knock raid in December 1999 smashed
down the door of Troy Davis. He had a gun in his hand, and
police immediately shot him in the chest. (His gun was
legal.)

There are many similar stories. And of course, families and
individuals who are not shot on such raids are often severely
terrified and traumatized -- even though, under U.S. law,
they are presumed innocent.

There are about 30,000 SWAT teams nationwide. SWAT teams,
says Dolovich, "were originally intended for use in emergency
situations, hostage-takings, bomb threats and the like.
Trained for combat, their arsenals (often provided cut rate
or free of charge by the Pentagon) resemble those of small
armies: automatic weapons, armored personnel carriers and
even grenade launchers.

"Today, however, SWAT units are most commonly used to execute
drug warrants, frequently of the 'no-knock' variety, which
are issued by judges and magistrates when there is reason to
suspect that the 4th Amendment's 'knock and announce'
requirement, already perfunctorily applied, would be
dangerous or futile, or would give residents time to destroy
incriminating evidence.

"The state's interest in protecting evidence of drug crimes
from destruction, or even in preventing the escape of
suspected drug felons, does not justify the threat to
individual safety, security and peace of mind that the use of
these tactics represents. On this, the now-famous image of a
terrified Elian facing an armed INS agent speaks volumes.
Even when no shot is fired, these raids leave in their wake
families traumatized by memories of an armed invasion by
government agents.

"Such raids are the hallmark of police states, not free
societies."

"The real tragedy here is the fact that deaths like Alberto's
will occur again," said Libertarian Party of California
spokesman Juan Ros. "The Drug War has turned local police
into dangerous paramilitary forces with autonomous,
centralized bureaucracies and military-style armaments."

(Sources: Libertarian Party of California; Orange County
Register; Denver Rocky Mountain News; Los Angeles Times;
Sacramento Bee; Media Awareness Project)
 

CyberTiger

Senior member
Jun 14, 2000
673
0
0
that's out of hand... i never would have guessed such terrifying things could happen. This is worst than the movies when innocent people get killed.
30,000 swat teams? they could take out a small country.
 

madthumbs

Banned
Oct 1, 2000
2,680
0
0
Our police/ government makes the drug dealers look good. After all, they are there to raise our children for us if we don't want to. They give jobs to people who would otherwise need our tax dollars for welfare. They are the epitome of free enterprise. Now this I was taught by a judge who taught my high school social studies class; power corrupts, absolute power corrupts ......! Who has more power than those in the government? I knew a street preacher once that had citizen's arrested police for crack dealing. I know police have busted teen drinking parties, confiscated the beer, only to serve it to another party. No government lasts forever.

Somthing to ponder; wages per capita gos up, population gos up, taxes go up.

A good idea-

A limited percentage of the population in government. A limited tax percentage. (10% of the population in power/ 10% taxes = the average income for government officials) Abolishment of the college situation where the rich get richer. Yes, I got this idea from the Bible.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
One other storie I heard once, The cop raided the wrong house, the right hose was down the street. The one they raided was in fact not a drughouse, there was a family of 4 or 5 living there and the police shot the father and one of the sons.

happened about 5-10 years ago
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
You forgot the story about the two Nashville sheriff's deputies who were serving a warrant in 1997 on a man for what I believe was something innocuous like a traffic violation. The man was ready with a 12 gauge shotgun and killed one of them outright with a blast to the chest (the man had two daughters, if I recall correctly) then shot the other one as he tried to scramble away for his life.

Or, there's the story about the two officers here in Atlanta this year who were attacked in another warrant delivery -- one of them was killed and the other wounded. This was the former Black Panther who then fled to Alabama and later captured.

How many countless other officers have been killed in the line of duty? And you want to make their job more dangerous? Hey, take this: FSCK YOU. If enough people around this country would stop: using drugs, accepting drug use, making apologies for it and calling for legalization, then perhaps we could make some headway in putting mistakes like this to rest. The reason SWAT use has increased is because it makes it much safer for the officers to not have the people they need to arrest ready and waiting for them with high powered rifles.

That reminds me of another story here just outside of Atlanta where one officer was shot in responding to a neighborhood disturbance. The SWAT team surrounded the house and rushed it since they thought the man's mother was in danger -- two SWAT officers were killed since he had set-up a lovely killzone and was using a .30-06 hunting rifle. He shot them in the head as they came through the door.

The reason you can walk down the street safely is because a police officer is risking his/her life for your sake. Don't forget that part of these stories.
 

Psychoholic

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,704
0
76
It really kills me how people are always griping about the police. Sure there are a few bad cops out their but the majority are good people who perform a good job. It's real easy for us to sit here and say cops are bad, they shouldn't do this, or what a horrifying mistake they made. The reality is the cops have families too, and they want to come back home to them.



<< One other storie I heard once, The cop raided the wrong house, the right hose was down the street. The one they raided was in fact not a drughouse, there was a family of 4 or 5 living there and the police shot the father and one of the sons. >>


First of all Czar it's real easy &quot;to remember a story&quot; about anything. I'm not saying that this didn't happen however. If it did happen would you like to provide details. I strongly doubt the police just broke into the house and shot them on the couch for no reason. Sure it may have been the wrong house but the guys that were shot had to do something to provoke it.

I tell you what Czar, or any of you for that matter. Why don't you quit your jobs and become cops. Then you can deal with the volitility of a domestic dispute, try to arrest a drug dealer with an automatic weapon, or subdue someone swinging a gravel rake at you trying to take your head off, the list goes on. Then you get to see the paycheck you get for putting you life on the line while protecting people like yourself who are ungrateful as hell and questioning your motives everytime you go to the john. I've got several friends who are cops and I see this bullshit often.

I tell you what Czar when you decide to step up to the plate and decide to prove to us how much of a man you are by signing up as a cop I'll start listening to your constant bitching about all the injustices that you parade around. Fair enough???
 

breakit23

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,741
0
0
SOme cops get powertrips and think there gawd but most of them are alright.

Guy i know get off rain and starts to drink outside the by the station on the benches cops are beginning to pass around there more often cus of ppl causing fights etc.

He comes into my store and complains how the cops are annoying him and won't let him drink outside. silly f00
 

WetSprocket

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
543
0
0
Hey I'm not talking about all police here, but I think that common sense should prevail. If I do something wrong even if it is a mistake I think I should be held liable and steps should be taken to see that the mistake is not made again is all I'm saying. If somebody in the privacy of their own home taking responsibility for their own acts I dont think the government should interveen. Wait till something like this happens to YOU and then I bet YOU'LL be screaming about your rights!!!
 

Psychoholic

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,704
0
76


<< Guy i know get off rain and starts to drink outside the by the station on the benches cops are beginning to pass around there more often cus of ppl causing fights etc. >>


Maybe it's just me but I have no idea what you're saying.



<< If somebody in the privacy of their own home taking responsibility for their own acts I dont think the government should interveen. >>


So you're saying if I grab one of your family members and decide to carve them up, it's okay as long as I'm in my house?? How about your computer, according to your I can steal and use it as long as it's in my house.

Sometimes for the common good of all, limits to your rights have to be drawn.
 

WetSprocket

Senior member
Mar 13, 2000
543
0
0
What I meant is if it doesnt infringe on the rights of others. Sorry I should have been more carefull with my wording.
 

madthumbs

Banned
Oct 1, 2000
2,680
0
0
You will see how honorable and good cops are if your g/f ever beats on you, and the cops come and take you to jail for a domestic dispute because she had a bruise or scratch that was previously there. This is just one instance you will see of being treated as guilty before being declared innocent. I'm not talking about just a trip to jail, I'm talking no miranda rights, no phone call, chemicals being sprayed around you all night in a freezing cold cell with no blanket or bench to lie on (unless you can lay on the hoops that cuffs are shackled to. This happened in a cell visible to all the cops coming in and going out in a fair sized city. I guess you could say that men are like this in general though. Always being &quot;overly protective&quot; of the female sex.
 

huey1124

Golden Member
Sep 19, 2000
1,068
1
0
madthumbs:

sounds like you're speaking from your own experience? of course i'm being serious when i'm asking this. btw, did you beat your g/f?

if you're speaking from your own experience, then no wonder you have issues with cops.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
0
0
Hey AndrewR, did you know just a few months ago LA cops did a 'no knock' on a millionaire, he thought he was being robbed so reached for his gun &amp; in the process got blasted away by the cops.

Well the Justice dept did a investigation that proved the cops had faked the info to get the warrent, so that they could do a drug raid, just so that they could get a real good forfeiture bonus if some pot was found, as the house was worth millions. They didn't find any pot either.

Apparently this has been happening right across the US, some police depts give their cops 10% on all forfeitures, while other cops get bonus ski trips to Aspen Colarado. Consequently even if you have an old roach (joint butt) lying on the floor of your car &amp; you get pulled up &amp; the cop finds it, the car will get forfeited from you in some districts. Hence some cops have been busted for pulling up real expensive cars &amp; then letting a little bit of pot fall out of their sleeve while they reach in &amp; grab the key. They don't care if they can't prove that pot is yours or if its enough to charge you with a felony, however just by it being in the car, they can forfeit your car, then the cop gets his free ski trip to Aspen.

Really the Drug War is turning (or should I say has turned) the US in a Police state. I know just from my experiance in the US &amp; Europe, that the police in the US are heaps more heavily handed in the US than they are Australia or Western Europe.