Are people stupid?

[BrownTown]

OK, so after seeing the ".9999 =1" and "plane on treadmill" debates in this forum I am pretty much forced to question the level of debate here, and more specifically in P&N. Just sorta consider this, the FACT that .9999 is exactly equal to 1 is something that was proven by some of hte most briliant mathematicians, and is not something up to debate, it is a FACT. If you say .99999.. = 1 then you are 100% correct, if you say .9999.. != 1 then you are 100% wrong. However, everyday multiple people come to argue against a proven fact, and apparently think they are smarter then the founders of our mathematical system. Now, in P&N, there are also lots of debates, and debates about things where there is no 100% facts, and there are several ways of looking at the problem that are equally valid. The problem here comes in the fact that if 20% of the people posting in the .9999 = 1 thread are not willing to do the 10 seconds of research to see that this is a proven fact, then how can we expect any debate here to be even remotely intellegent. I mean if it takes 100 posts and people still deny reality in something so simple as .99999 = 1, then how many posts would it takes to simply verify the facts in a much more subjective political question before you can even begin to debate? It seems like you are pretty much doomed from the start to have maybe 20% of people who know what they are talking about, 60% who are generally intellegent, but not to well informed, and 20% of people who are total idiots. So, how do the 60% of the people know who is telling the truth when there are as many idiots arguing as there are informed people?

I guess thats just kinda a worthless rant. Not trying to overdramatize here, but these whole ".9999 =1" and ""plane on conveyer" arguments have litteraly caused me to question my faith in the general intellegence of the human race. If so many people can't even get their basic facts straight, then how can we hope to have any sort of meaningfull debate on anything?

 

[rsd]

where is the option for "This post sucks"?

 

[rsd]

and to add, if this is what you waste your time worrying about.........

 

[Turin39789]

Please add "Both" as an option to your poll

 

[40Hands]

It's the intarweb, get used to it.

 

[BrownTown]

added "this post sux" per request. Unsure what "both" would entail?

 

[j00fek]

This post sucks.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
added "this post sux" per request. Unsure what "both" would entail?

That the answer is yes to the two questions you asked.

"Are people stupid?" Yes
"Or am I just stupid?" Yes

 

[dullard]

Half of the people you ever meet are below average. Keep that in mind.

Often one of the best arguments in a debate is to state what you just said, but in a much more concise way. "I'm sorry, sir, but you are misinformed." You aren't denying their logic. In fact their logic may be correct. You are denying the basic facts that they applied their logic to. This takes the personal factor out of the debate and focusses back on the facts. The facts that they have incorrect in their mind.

But if they still argue their same argument after it is proven that their assumptions are false, then they are just idiots. Idiots blinded by bias. The only bigger idiot is the intelligent person who tries to debate an idiot. Move on, and seek out the "20%" who are willing to use the proper facts in their logic and who are intelligent enough to put together a coherent logic chain.

I like P&N. But I know it is filled with those idiots (on both sides of the debates). I just ignore those posts, and write what I know is a fact and my opinions on those facts. There are enough intelligent people there that they will respond to my posts with useful comments (either supporting my opinion or against my opinion).

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: BroeBo
It's the intarweb, get used to it.

yes, I understand this, but I tried to come to AnandTech because I thought that this wasn't a bunch of high school kids, and might actually contain more intellegent/informed individuals. Is this essentially an impossible goal to expect from the internet, are there really no forums out there that actually contain intellegent debate?

 

[ForumMaster]

there are idiots on this board. there are atleast 140k registered members on this forum so yeah there are idiots. don't let a few idiots ruin it for you.

 

[tweakmm]

Possibly both?

While I have no comment about the .999 = 1 debate, it's funny you mention the concreteness of fact. 500 years ago, everyone knew the world was flat. What are we going to figure out about our universe tomorrow?

 

[funboy6942]

LOL. I think its more people do it to get a rise out of alot of people on here that take life, and what they read, waaaaaaaaaay to seriously. I for one am big time guilty of this, and say 90% of what I reply or topics I start are ment to do just that, for someone to read and go is this guy really this stupid, or omg I can believe he thinks that what a tool. I do it because its actually fun for me and dont care what some other person I will never meet in person thinks of me. Im bored and love alot of the replies I get from what I have done

Hence you, OP, your thread here. You got such a rise out of what someone wrote, and could of did it for same reason as I do it, and took it so seriously as for what it was written, you made this. But greanted some people may actuall be like this, for I have met a few in people where I had to look at them and ask myself inside "do they actually believe and think that as for truth on what they just said??".

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: funboy42
LOL. I think its more people do it to get a rise out of alot of people on here that take life, and what they read, waaaaaaaaaay to seriously. I for one am big time guilty of this, and say 90% of what I reply or topics I start are ment to do just that, for someone to read and go is this guy really this stupid, or omg I can believe he thinks that what a tool. I do it because its actually fun for me and dont care what some other person I will never meet in person thinks of me. Im bored and love alot of the replies I get from what I have done

Hence you, OP, your thread here. You got such a rise out of what someone wrote, and could of did it for same reason as I do it, and took it so seriously as for what it was written, you made this. But greanted some people may actuall be like this, for I have met a few in people where I had to look at them and ask myself inside "do they actually believe and think that as for truth on what they just said??".

Trust me, if you think I wrote this thread because i was somehow annoyed/angered by someone's post on an internet forum then you are way off base. I know the tone implies some amount of seriousness, but that is in order to draw attention to the subject, not convey the mood I was in when i wrote it. This is meant more as an interesting statement on the quality of message board posts than a rant on their lack of quality (becasue lets just admit it, anyone who has used the internet knows that the chances of en enlightened debate are slim to none). I just wonder why so many people even try. I mean I'm sure hundreds of people post in P&N every day, and how often do you think someone actually CHANGES their mind on something? Not very likely, its mostly each person posts their view, then proceeds to ignore/attack all views to the contrary.

Also, @ tweakmm, this is not the same type of "fact" as the earth being flat. That was a conjecture made by scientists of the time based on empirical evidence (namely the earth sure looks flat). The .9999.. = 1 isn't a property of a physical system, it is a construct of the methods we use to describe reality. One method of course is via mathematics, and this is something which is derived from the fundamental definitions we use in mathematics. It is "true" simply becasue it was defined as such by mathematicians when they sought to explain the properties of mathematics. So, in order for .9999 != 1 you have to use a different systems of mathematics than is currently used. In this case it might be entirely valid to say .99999 != 1, however it might also be EQUALLY valid to say 1+5 = 8. This is simply do to redefining these symbols to mean a different thing than they currently do, not disproving the previous system.

 

[MisterJackson]

The intarwebs has made instant experts of us all!

 

[MotionMan]

This is how you must feel.

MotionMan

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: funboy42
LOL. I think its more people do it to get a rise out of alot of people on here that take life, and what they read, waaaaaaaaaay to seriously. I for one am big time guilty of this, and say 90% of what I reply or topics I start are ment to do just that, for someone to read and go is this guy really this stupid, or omg I can believe he thinks that what a tool. I do it because its actually fun for me and dont care what some other person I will never meet in person thinks of me. Im bored and love alot of the replies I get from what I have done

Hence you, OP, your thread here. You got such a rise out of what someone wrote, and could of did it for same reason as I do it, and took it so seriously as for what it was written, you made this. But greanted some people may actuall be like this, for I have met a few in people where I had to look at them and ask myself inside "do they actually believe and think that as for truth on what they just said??".

Trust me, if you think I wrote this thread because i was somehow annoyed/angered by someone's post on an internet forum then you are way off base. I know the tone implies some amount of seriousness, but that is in order to draw attention to the subject, not convey the mood I was in when i wrote it. This is meant more as an interesting statement on the quality of message board posts than a rant on their lack of quality (becasue lets just admit it, anyone who has used the internet knows that the chances of en enlightened debate are slim to none). I just wonder why so many people even try. I mean I'm sure hundreds of people post in P&N every day, and how often do you think someone actually CHANGES their mind on something? Not very likely, its mostly each person posts their view, then proceeds to ignore/attack all views to the contrary.

Also, @ tweakmm, this is not the same type of "fact" as the earth being flat. That was a conjecture made by scientists of the time based on empirical evidence (namely the earth sure looks flat). The .9999.. = 1 isn't a property of a physical system, it is a construct of the methods we use to describe reality. One method of course is via mathematics, and this is something which is derived from the fundamental definitions we use in mathematics. It is "true" simply becasue it was defined as such by mathematicians when they sought to explain the properties of mathematics. So, in order for .9999 != 1 you have to use a different systems of mathematics than is currently used. In this case it might be entirely valid to say .99999 != 1, however it might also be EQUALLY valid to say 1+5 = 8. This is simply do to redefining these symbols to mean a different thing than they currently do, not disproving the previous system.

LOL! See, well you just proved my point a little