are our politicians in power because of the divine right of the constitution?

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
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That's why kings were in power, right? divine right? the peasantry had no say in the matter, they weren't even consulted one way or the other, just told to obey and comply. are we in the same situation today?

none of us alive today signed the constitution. a lot of the laws on the books today, i would NEVER have voted for had i been alive. what happened to consent of the governed?

I hear all about some magical "social contract" that i signed, or that if i dont' like the laws i should just leave... but i ask you, then, under what right are we oppressed and told how to live our lives other than some signatures on a piece of parchment 250 years ago? were we born into these laws the same way that the serfs were born into serfdom under the kings?

police are given a badge and told they have special powers over us "normal citizens" because someone put them in charge, because someone put that person in charge, and so and and so forth.

what is to stop me and my cohorts from signing a constitution and it having the force of law. OUR law. Just because you weren't consulted as to what's in it doesn't mean i can't enforce our laws on you for breaking them!
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,616
4,705
136
Off the meds again?

79480.jpg
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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The Constitution exists as an attempt to place restraints upon government and therefore preserving the rights of the people. Of course we could just do away with it and you would be licking the boots of those who have no restraints whatsoever.

The problem isn't the concept of the Constitutions but the subversion of liberty (also another word looked at somewhat askance these days) by the few and powerful. Laughingly people then look to the few and powerful for protection, and to give them bread and circuses.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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I know a person who sometimes posts here. He doesn't have many material things. He gets some care for agent orange damage he got in Nam. But he never mentions anything like what is spoken of in the OP. He experiences what I would call deep content. He renders unto Caesar what is Casasar's and unto God what is God's. To be free isn't what you think it is.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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The only real problem with the Constitution is the 237 years the government and courts have had to undermine it.
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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The Constitution exists as an attempt to place restraints upon government and therefore preserving the rights of the people. Of course we could just do away with it and you would be licking the boots of those who have no restraints whatsoever. The problem isn't the concept of the Constitutions but the subversion of liberty (also another word looked at somewhat askance these days) by the few and powerful. Laughingly people then look to the few and powerful for protection, and to give them bread and circuses.
the constitution set up a hierarchical form of govt so it could never protect liberty... it was modeled after the british empire and tradition except only it added a supreme court. all it did was set the govt up so it could do anything it wanted to just like the u.k. govt has always been able to do.

it also does not recognize the right to secede which all legislation must do if it wants to pretend that it can protect liberty.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
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the constitution set up a hierarchical form of govt so it could never protect liberty... it was modeled after the british empire and tradition except only it added a supreme court. all it did was set the govt up so it could do anything it wanted to just like the u.k. govt has always been able to do.

it also does not recognize the right to secede which all legislation must do if it wants to pretend that it can protect liberty.

Dear god man don't you know slavery = freedom!?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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what is to stop me and my cohorts from signing a constitution and it having the force of law. OUR law. Just because you weren't consulted as to what's in it doesn't mean i can't enforce our laws on you for breaking them!

Popular support and/or the guns to back it up.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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the constitution set up a hierarchical form of govt so it could never protect liberty... it was modeled after the british empire and tradition except only it added a supreme court. all it did was set the govt up so it could do anything it wanted to just like the u.k. govt has always been able to do.

it also does not recognize the right to secede which all legislation must do if it wants to pretend that it can protect liberty.

There is no guaranteed protection of liberty, however someone could kill you and take your stuff. In that they would have ultimate freedom. Would you like that?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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nothing is guaranteed. im not sure what you're trying to point out to me.:)

Let me point out that you may have an obsessive compulsive disorder and are projecting the prison that is out on the government. If you deal with that your view of the world will very likely change dramatically. I used to suffer form compulsive thinking with thoughts that I would die if I broke pattern, in the particular case, closed my eyes to sleep. That turned out to be a bad situation because I had to sleep and so I knew I was going to die. But as soon as I gave in to die, the problem disappeared. There is only fear to fear. Maybe you're like me.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
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"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That is the stated purpose of the Constitution - notice the word 'Posterity' - followed by the rules under which the Nation ought to follow in order to meet the stated objective.

Rights belong to the people and go unstated in the Constitution because the founders expected IF a right or group of Rights were stated it would serve to limit unstated Rights. Ergo, only those who'd seek to limit Rights engage in activity to shape this nation as they see fit from their own myopic view.

Congress is us... or an extension of us... or ought to be.

"... one Nation under God ..." is an obvious attempt to set a God above a nation founded to separate a God... any of them... from being a consideration when a law is created or an interpretation of some Constitutional issue is undertaken... As an example.

So... I'd say you have to consider what ought to be the default position on what Rights really are. As in my example above, whichever God you choose to believe in is for you but not anyone else. However, reasonable limits such as a compelling need, etc. are legitimate when a limit is considered on those Rights we ought to all enjoy.

Caesar indeed has his place as does God and they are not the same place... This place is where it is ok to be Gay or a non European immigrant or a Woman, Atheist or even a Socialist.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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Let me point out that you may have an obsessive compulsive disorder and are projecting the prison that is out on the government. If you deal with that your view of the world will very likely change dramatically. I used to suffer form compulsive thinking with thoughts that I would die if I broke pattern, in the particular case, closed my eyes to sleep. That turned out to be a bad situation because I had to sleep and so I knew I was going to die. But as soon as I gave in to die, the problem disappeared. There is only fear to fear. Maybe you're like me.
nope, we're nothing alike and i dont have any compulsive disorder.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,669
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The Constitution exists as an attempt to place restraints upon government and therefore preserving the rights of the people. Of course we could just do away with it and you would be licking the boots of those who have no restraints whatsoever.

The problem isn't the concept of the Constitutions but the subversion of liberty (also another word looked at somewhat askance these days) by the few and powerful. Laughingly people then look to the few and powerful for protection, and to give them bread and circuses.

+1. Our problem today is not our constitution, it's that the people have let the power hungry subvert it. We're turning a representative republic into a democracy. We vote in whoever promises us the most goodies, not thinking of the consequences. We let the power hungry and corrupt get away with all manner of things as long as they send home the portk. The constitution gave people the power, but the people have abdicated it to the very people who cant' be trusted to have it.
 
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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
That's why kings were in power, right? divine right? the peasantry had no say in the matter, they weren't even consulted one way or the other, just told to obey and comply. are we in the same situation today?

none of us alive today signed the constitution. a lot of the laws on the books today, i would NEVER have voted for had i been alive. what happened to consent of the governed?

You are very much correct. Just because some group of people hold a vote to do something doesn't make it moral.

I hear all about some magical "social contract" that i signed, or that if i dont' like the laws i should just leave... but i ask you, then, under what right are we oppressed and told how to live our lives other than some signatures on a piece of parchment 250 years ago? were we born into these laws the same way that the serfs were born into serfdom under the kings?

They do not have any right, but they do have guns.

police are given a badge and told they have special powers over us "normal citizens" because someone put them in charge, because someone put that person in charge, and so and and so forth.

what is to stop me and my cohorts from signing a constitution and it having the force of law. OUR law. Just because you weren't consulted as to what's in it doesn't mean i can't enforce our laws on you for breaking them!

They have guns. Lots of guns.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,350
126
nope, we're nothing alike and i dont have any compulsive disorder.

Sorry, I thought you said you can't stop posting with the topic always about government control and that you've also mentioned you don't like yourself because you are dependent on others like the government for care. And when you post so often people make fun of you, your issues of concern seemingly at times so far fetched. There are so many kinds of misery in the world I just hate to see people add to all that with delusions their minds needlessly generate.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,452
2
0
I know a person who sometimes posts here. He doesn't have many material things. He gets some care for agent orange damage he got in Nam. But he never mentions anything like what is spoken of in the OP. He experiences what I would call deep content. He renders unto Caesar what is Casasar's and unto God what is God's. To be free isn't what you think it is.

Ah, but who decides "what is Ceasars'"? Ceasar does, obviously.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,350
126
Ah, but who decides "what is Ceasars'"? Ceasar does, obviously.

The coin with which the Roman citizen was charged in taxes bore the head of Caesar, did it not. You decide what is Caesar's when you take his coin. You are free to work for nothing, no?