I assumed last year after nVidia started having trouble producing their part that prices would stay stagnate on release, it's nothing to do with price fixing. nVidia can't sell the Fermi cheaper without losing money which puts no pressure on ATI to slash their prices and supply vs demand isn't pressuring them to lower prices either so here we are.
No competitive pressure and no abundance of supply.
No competitive pressure and no abundance of supply.
edplayer
Platinum Member
- Sep 13, 2002
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dood! I know.
its got to be like illegal n stuff. The prices. They line up like magic!
Like the other day. I was going to buy some pot and the guy said $60 so I went to another guy and he also said $60 (the highest amount possible for weed). I said that's price fixing and its illegal (you know, no competition or price wars). He kicked me in the nuts and told me to leave. I bought it anyways cause its a necessity.
its got to be like illegal n stuff. The prices. They line up like magic!
Like the other day. I was going to buy some pot and the guy said $60 so I went to another guy and he also said $60 (the highest amount possible for weed). I said that's price fixing and its illegal (you know, no competition or price wars). He kicked me in the nuts and told me to leave. I bought it anyways cause its a necessity.
The current generation of cards simply isn't as affordable as the last generation. By which I mean the "equivalent" card in the relative lineup isn't at the same price point: a 5870 will set you back >$300, whereas a 4870 was significantly south of that. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's obviously a vastly superior card. But that's how it's positioned -- increment the first digit by one each generation, the rest stays the same.)
The problem is that the average consumer, even the average gamer, can't keep up with the pace. New generations come out too frequently -- most people don't want to spend $300 for a kick-ass video card, especially if they just paid $200 for one a couple years back.
The solution for those people is simple; they don't buy yet. It would seem the break-neck pace of GPUs is destined to slow down despite technological prowess, as the number of people willing to pay is somewhat limited.
The problem is that the average consumer, even the average gamer, can't keep up with the pace. New generations come out too frequently -- most people don't want to spend $300 for a kick-ass video card, especially if they just paid $200 for one a couple years back.
The solution for those people is simple; they don't buy yet. It would seem the break-neck pace of GPUs is destined to slow down despite technological prowess, as the number of people willing to pay is somewhat limited.
The DOJ actually investigated this last year. (ATI and Nvidia)
No foul play was found.
They are doing a huge Intel investigation now.
No foul play was found.
They are doing a huge Intel investigation now.
If the DOJ investigated last year then they were investigating a market period that likely dated to nothing as recent as 2009, probably not even as recent as 2008.
This is the DOJ after all, the Intel stuff they are just now getting around to investigating is in regards to circa 2004.
AMD and Nvidia could be blatantly price-fixing, and I mean open letters in the NYT on the topic, and the DOJ would get around to it in 2012 at the absolute earliest.
Sense of urgency does not come to mind when I think of government regulation and the timeliness of its application.
This is the DOJ after all, the Intel stuff they are just now getting around to investigating is in regards to circa 2004.
AMD and Nvidia could be blatantly price-fixing, and I mean open letters in the NYT on the topic, and the DOJ would get around to it in 2012 at the absolute earliest.
Sense of urgency does not come to mind when I think of government regulation and the timeliness of its application.
No. ATI came out with their cards at what they believed would be competitive prices against the soon{sic} to be released Fermis. Since then nVidia has screwed the pooch everyway possible to effectively drive the price of ATI cards up to where they can be competitive.
cbn
Lifer
- Mar 27, 2009
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With Nvidia entrenched in HPC, why do they need to lower Gaming card prices? They don't need to right?
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it benefit gamers more if ATI could compete in HPC? Wouldn't this force more competition from Nvidia in both markets? At the moment it seems Nvidia doesn't even need to sell the GeForce products to make a profit. In fact, doesn't it make more short term sense for Nvidia to only sell Tesla?
I almost have the feeling Nvidia is selling GeForce to hedge their bets and maintain at least some prescence in gaming?
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it benefit gamers more if ATI could compete in HPC? Wouldn't this force more competition from Nvidia in both markets? At the moment it seems Nvidia doesn't even need to sell the GeForce products to make a profit. In fact, doesn't it make more short term sense for Nvidia to only sell Tesla?
I almost have the feeling Nvidia is selling GeForce to hedge their bets and maintain at least some prescence in gaming?
fyi, many of the biggest capitalist corporate crooks cooking the books came from so-called liberal (and jewish) establishments.
eh did some liberal kid piss in your cereal?
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Fayd
Diamond Member
cbn
Lifer
- Mar 27, 2009
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Does anyone at Anandtech have Nvidia's revenue and profit breakdown for Gaming vs. HPC?
Sometime last year I remember seeing a quote from JHH saying 1/3 of GT200b volume was for Tesla, but it accounted for 2/3 of the GT200b profits. (Or maybe it was all the Gaming volume vs Tesla?)
With Fermi being much more intensive in "double precision" I have to wonder if that ratio will become even more skewed.
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cbn
Lifer
- Mar 27, 2009
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http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/11/5/nvidias-3q09-earnings-show-strong-profit-growth.aspx
Why sell something for $175 when you can sell it for $1499 instead?
BSN article said:
Why sell something for $175 when you can sell it for $1499 instead?
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Volume, probably. If they were earning ~10x more from Tesla cards, there's no reason to sell GeForce cards anymore unless:
-they were selling more than just 10x more GeForce cards than Tesla, which in the end means their GeForce still sustains the business, and
-the current Tesla demand still won't catch up to the volume of the GeForce market even if they turned all GeForce production into Tesla parts.
Of course, given a limited production scenario thanks to the realities of 40nm, they probably have to cater to the Tesla market first, then sell whatever remains to the GeForce market, since the profit margin is much higher in Tesla, which is what they are absolutely bound to do for their shareholders and customers as well.
No..just...no.
TSMC has screwed this round up, and the next, for all of us. For ATi fans, instead of the next gen coming out, a 1/2 gen is coming out.
For nV fans, although everyone knows nV's strategy is showing holes, TSMC is hurting them as well.
TSMC has screwed this round up, and the next, for all of us. For ATi fans, instead of the next gen coming out, a 1/2 gen is coming out.
For nV fans, although everyone knows nV's strategy is showing holes, TSMC is hurting them as well.
2/3rds of profits (IIRC, based on their most recent quarter) come from Quadro and HPC.
The financial reports should have a breakdown of gaming vs non-gaming.
Also I was wondering if this is a reason for the supposed cut of GTX470 production. If they are supply limited, then why not sell every 448 SP part as a Tesla or Quadro instead of as a cheap consumer graphics card?
Right, that's it, I'm going to start my own semiconductor fab in my garden shed. Silicon's sand right? I can get sand. And I guess some sort of really fine engraving tool and big magnifying glass would be in order?
There must be some instructions on the web somewhere, how hard can it be?
cbn
Lifer
- Mar 27, 2009
- 12,968
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What you are saying about 448 CUDA core parts is interesting. I guess we will have to wait and see what they do with that.
P.S. From what I have read 480 CUDA core Teslas aren't being used in 1u rack servers yet. Heat problems? Or some other reason?
No price fixing was done here. ATi had a six month lead and nVidia had six months to effectively target and fill up the holes. It's just common sense not to start an unneccesary price war when you can simply make your own place in the market. Both companies win but we the consumers lose.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
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This is pretty much the way I see it too. If the cards had came out at the same time, I would have been more inclined to suspect price fixing, but nVidia did have a long time to price their cards into an open niche of the market.
Nvidia being late, and TSMC not being able to produce enough high end chips is the problem. I see no evidence of collusion.
The mid range and most of the last generation cards are competitively priced.
The mid range and most of the last generation cards are competitively priced.
formulav8
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2000
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taltamir
Lifer
- Mar 21, 2004
- 13,576
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price collusion / price fixing / conspiracy is a very real crime that happens all the time. Companies and people are convicted for it often.
It would not be unheard of for it to happen between AMD and nVidia.
EDIT: IRL example of price fixing: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...l-fined-331-million-for-dram-price-fixing.ars
It is hillarious that people here actually tried to delegate the possibility of such a thing to a "conspiracy theory"...
Conspiracies are real and happen every day, sure sometimes a fucking retard thinks up a really stupid conspiracy that is not backed up by any evidence or information whatsoever, but that isn't proof that conspiracies don't exist, only the CRAZY ones don't exist (because they are CRAZY, not because they are conspiracies)
It would not be unheard of for it to happen between AMD and nVidia.
EDIT: IRL example of price fixing: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...l-fined-331-million-for-dram-price-fixing.ars
It is hillarious that people here actually tried to delegate the possibility of such a thing to a "conspiracy theory"...
Conspiracies are real and happen every day, sure sometimes a fucking retard thinks up a really stupid conspiracy that is not backed up by any evidence or information whatsoever, but that isn't proof that conspiracies don't exist, only the CRAZY ones don't exist (because they are CRAZY, not because they are conspiracies)
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