Are math and number logic abilities more advanced skills?

[QueHuong]

First off, I'm in a forum full of geeks and engineers who get off on solving differential equations (and ASCII porn?), so I'm expecting a biased response.

The question is, is a person with mathematical abilities "smarter" than a person with a different skill, such as someone else gifted in writing.

Engineers say that their major is hard because of "all the math and science" (I'm an engineer too so I wholeheartedly agree). Normally I don't see too many people challenging that, such as with "well, English is the hardest major because of all the writing classes." Why is that? But does solving a page of physics and calculus problems require more intelligence than composing a well-written essay, playing Beethoven's 5th Symphony flawlessly, or coming up with a unique argument in an abortion debate?

 

[MacBaine]

People are gifted in different areas. One cannot judge the "hardness" of a field based on any one characteristic, while not taking into account the person being subjected to it.

 

[QueHuong]

Surely some skills require more intelligence than other skills. You can be the best domino set builder in the world, but I'm sure a mathematician is smarter - that's with the assumption dominoes are what you're good at and nothing else; and math is what the mathematician is good at, and nothing else.

 

[Dragnov]

Nope.

CS and Engineering geeks may even be dumber by not being able to recognize and quality of other subjects.

 

[Descartes]

"Nash, what is the difference between genius and most genius?"
"Quite a lot."

 

[Spamela]

if it's hard (because of "all the math and science" or whatever reason), then maybe they aren't so smart.

if they believe English/Art/Music/whatever is easy, then take a class full of English/Art/Music/whatever majors & demonstrate it.

 

[ViRGE]

Gr1mL0cK, of course geeks are stupid. We're basically the only sub-species(if you can call it that) that tends to reproduce at far under the normal rate; we're self terminating.:Q

 

[HappyPuppy]

If it's mechanical, hydraulic or pneumatic, i can troubleshoot and fix it. It is a talent I was born with and expanded on. That makes me a genius in that particular field.

I am, however, completely lost when it comes to chemistry, biology and higher math. That makes me a moron.

Add them together and divide by 2 and I am an average human being.

Don't know if this really addresses your question, but I am always willing to try.

 

[QueHuong]

Originally posted by: Spamela
if it's hard (because of "all the math and science" or whatever reason), then maybe they aren't so smart.

if they believe English/Art/Music/whatever is easy, then take a class full of English/Art/Music/whatever majors & demonstrate it.

Took Advanced English Compostion (higher than English 101, and Honors English 101 at my school), and took engineering calculus and physics. By far, the latter two were much harder - and I'm an engineer, not a English major. edit: and I ended up with a B, along the same lines as the English majors, while still focusing more on my major-related classes.

All you guys are saying is, "people who don't recognize the difficulty of other classes are stupid." WHY? My question is, why, what makes those other classes hard? I don't want a "go take them and see" answer because I already have taken classes outside my major like psych, english, biology, etc and I still find the math and quantitative science courses were much harder.



And there are obviously bullshit majors with people who get straight A's and have lots of free time, like, but not limited to business or communications. Are those people smarter than physics major with much lower GPAs?

 

[Syringer]

I think if you take the average person, and have one lead a path of an English major, and the other go through what an engineer goes through..I'd say more people would drop out of Engineering, making that the harder of the two paths.

 

[TuffGirl]

Originally posted by: MindStorm
Are math and number logic abilities more advanced skills?

No. What I do consider to be advanced skills (i.e. what makes one "gifted") are one's resourcefulness and general analytical/critical assessment skills because I think it's those skills that determine one's aptitude in learning new skills and thereby make one a well-rounded person. Those skills can be present in those with either mathematical/logical or creative writing aptitude. Actually "gifted" people usually possess both.

Aside of the math and writing ends of the skills spectrum, there's also common sense skills, social skills, "emotional intelligence" to consider.

 

[QueHuong]

Originally posted by: klee58

Originally posted by: MindStorm
Are math and number logic abilities more advanced skills?

No. What I do consider to be advanced skills (i.e. what makes one "gifted") are one's resourcefulness and general analytical/critical assessment skills because I think it's those skills that determine one's aptitude in learning new skills and thereby make one a well-rounded person. Those skills can be present in those with either mathematical/logical or creative writing aptitude. Actually "gifted" people usually possess both.

I'd agree with that. But I'm more concerned with skills needed for college majors. I'm wondering if engineers/math/physics majors are justified when they say their major is hard, or if communications major deserve as much credit as the above group. If no to the first, and yes to the second, what about the skills that they possess are deemed just as intellectually difficult as traditionally difficult subjects as math?

 

[TuffGirl]

Originally posted by: MindStorm

Originally posted by: klee58

Originally posted by: MindStorm
Are math and number logic abilities more advanced skills?

No. What I do consider to be advanced skills (i.e. what makes one "gifted") are one's resourcefulness and general analytical/critical assessment skills because I think it's those skills that determine one's aptitude in learning new skills and thereby make one a well-rounded person. Those skills can be present in those with either mathematical/logical or creative writing aptitude. Actually "gifted" people usually possess both.

I'd agree with that. But I'm more concerned with skills needed for college majors. I'm wondering if engineers/math/physics majors are justified when they say their major is hard, or if communications major deserve as much credit as the above group. If no to the first, and yes to the second, what about the skills that they possess are deemed just as intellectually difficult as traditionally difficult subjects as math?

Then I'd say you'd hafta differentiate between intellectually difficult (which is difficult to quantify since it's so subjective; it's not like one can count how many brain cells you use or which ones) and just mentally tasking which is easily gauged by how many hours you put in for labs, problem sets, homework, essays, etc.; how many all-nighters you pull a semester; how arduous it is to prepare for exams; how stress-inducing it is; how easy it is to "BS" your way through a class without paying attention or even attending lectures, etc.

In addition, as far as college majors are concerned, science/engineering/architecture majors simply require more preparation and more things to absorb to complete the major, what with all the labs and projects. The college preparation for a future career in those fields is more arduous, compared to the college courses and career preparation for liberal arts majors.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I don't think one is harder than the other. The differece is the rules placed upon the two skills. With my canvas in front of me, I'm free to do whatever I please. My drawings do not have any set rules that I must abide to, and the same can be said for music/writing/other things. Any sort of science has a very specific set of laws to which it must abide, and I suppose that this is what makes it seem harder.

 

[Goosemaster]

Engineering is hard because it requires devotion....rarely does one consider what engineer's do fun(to the point of their heartrate rising)...this is not unique to the field however....


I played the violin until HS and let me tell you, it Also requires devotion...the difference is that the product is respected to absolution...


The products of engineering are used without respect.....that is the purpose....integration of a revolutionary idea to make life easier in the form of something simple and everyday-looking....


Seriously do you really look at a wingnut and gaze in awe of its magesty?....what about a live Yo-Yoma Concert?

 

[Goosemaster]

The only reason math can be considred an advanced skill is because it takes continued 'advancement' through that area of study...once again this is not unique....you can't take the integral without first knowing how to take the derivative....

Then again, 'creativity' in engineering is very unique....

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
The only reason math can be considred an advanced skill is because it takes continued 'advancement' through that area of study...once again this is not unique....you can't take the integral without first knowing how to take the derivative....

Then again, 'creativity' in engineering is very unique....

I think the continued advancement takes place in any field, though. I could be wrong, but I don't know anyone who could play a violin from birth. Everyone is learning, and there is no way possible to become perfect at your skill. The best we can do is keep practicing, and keep studying.

 

[notfred]

The difference between math and English is that in math you get an A because you're answer is correct, and in English you get an A because the teachers want s to give you one. Math is objective, English is subjective.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: dparker

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
The only reason math can be considred an advanced skill is because it takes continued 'advancement' through that area of study...once again this is not unique....you can't take the integral without first knowing how to take the derivative....

Then again, 'creativity' in engineering is very unique....

I think the continued advancement takes place in any field, though. I could be wrong, but I don't know anyone who could play a violin from birth. Everyone is learning, and there is no way possible to become perfect at your skill. The best we can do is keep practicing, and keep studying.

Yeah...


As for the line: 'creativity' in engineering is very unique...

just so there aren't any misunderstandings...I meant that the definition of creativity in engineering is very different.....
Creativity thrives everywhere....



The key is that Most fields already have pre-defined bounds and the point is to do amazing things within those bounds(no one really cares if you can play the violin with your feet)

In engineering, the bounds are never really defined....on the surface perhaps...but try inventing the flying car...those boundaries don't even exist.....yet...and then we'll make even higher ones....


To engineer to is discover new boundaries....and proceed.


EDIT: I REALLY need to work on my typingg

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: notfred
The difference between math and English is that in math you get an A because you're answer is correct, and in English you get an A because the teachers want s to give you one. Math is objective, English is subjective.

Along the same token one might even say that a gifted writer is "smarter" than the mathematician. The math guy simply follows a set of procedures to arrive at a solution. The writer might have to convey his emotions and thoughts in a way that makes sense to most people and gives them similar feelings. You can make a computer, a device with no real intelligence on its own, do the math, but its writing skills are lacking. You can train someone to follow a series of procedures, but good writing isn't really able to be taught in the same way.

I wouldn't say either person is smarter myself though. Some people are just better at one thing than another, some are skilled at both, and some at neither. I know brilliant people in both areas. I think perhaps the reason people think the math/science people are smarter is because they seem to need more work to become skilled at it. I don't think thats accurate though either. While I've met some people who can just write well, I'll bet most have put in just as much time reading other works, and writing their own as the math/science guy has spent studying.

 

[Moonbeam]

Did you want your answer in English or mathematics?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

So you are saying you are more intelligent than physicists or astrophysicists like oh... Einstein or Hawking?
They even managed to get married to someone of the opposite sex, something half the geeks on here won't be doing.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

For a good engineer, English and history classes are the hard ones, in my opinion.

 

[Whisper]

Neither math nor english is inherently "harder" or more difficult than the other. Some people couldn't grasp the subtle ideas laid by figurative language in a sentence of prose if a professor sat there spelling it out word for word to them. Others would flunk out of Calc I in two weeks.

What I will say is this: the intro-level humanities courses--as a whole--tend to be easier to excel in than the intro-level science/math courses. Simply put, the lowest common denominator in humanities seems to be a LOT lower than that in math and science. As such, intro level humanities courses have to cater to these lowest common denominators.

I will say that from my personal experience, I have found organic chemistry and introduction to english studies to be of equal difficulty. I did better in the latter because it was of more interest to me.

 

[rgwalt]

As a chemical engineer, my view of this subject is that I'm not a great novelest or essay-writer. I can write coherent essays with thoughtful insights on any subject given some time to study, but when it comes down to it I'll never be published for my essay writing abilities. I'm also not a musician or an artist by any stretch.

That being said, I know I spent more time on my school work as an undergrad than any of my friends, excepting for other engineers (especially the EEs). Now whether more or "harder" work makes me more intelligent than someone who got a degree in english or history, I can't really say.

R