Are evolution/natural selection and the 2nd law of Thermodynamics contradictory?

[Gunslinger08]

Discuss.

 

[pray4mojo]

Please post the 2nd law for the ignorant like me who forgot what he learned a few months ago.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why would they be? Entropy increases in the universe as a whole, but that does not prevent the reverse on a local level.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: pray4mojo
Please post the 2nd law for the ignorant like me who forgot what he learned a few months ago.

Entropy (chaos/disorder/randomness) of the universe increases over time.

 

[msparish]

Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system, we get outside energy from the sun. No contradiction.

 

[akubi]

where'd i put that lawnchair...

 

[dullard]

You have a very common, yet very flawed understanding of the 2nd law. Tell me this, do you have the capability to take a messy desk and make it clean? Well if you can do that, then the 2nd law DOES NOT PREVENT DISARRAY TO BECOME ORGANIZED. Your flaw is that you are only looking at a narrow picture. If one thing becomes organized, something else becomes disordered. You are forgetting about that latter half.

 

[CrazyPerson]

evolution/natural selection

who's theory?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Discuss.

Ilya Prigogine won a nobel prize for showing that orderly dissipative structures could form in systems far from thermodynamic equilibrium and create localized decreases in entropy while still preserving an overall increase in entropy within the system.

http://nobelprize.org/chemistry/laureates/1977/press.html

-Garth

 

[IAteYourMother]

 

[rahvin]

Ice would violate the 2nd law by the definition you are using. Ice is a highly ordered structure that comes from a disordered structure (water).

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: msparish
Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system, we get outside energy from the sun. No contradiction.

:thumbsup:

 

[IronWing]

I assume the OP knew all that but decided to post anyway as an expression of love. See sig below.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: msparish
Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system, we get outside energy from the sun. No contradiction.

:thumbsup:

True - the chemical reactions in life also follow the 2nd law (at least I think I'm warm blooded).

 

[ruffilb]

The real question is, isn't creationism a whole lot worse?

 

[So]

:music:
Entropy
Trash Talk
Harm me with harmony.
Doomsday, drop a load on 'em.

Verse 1
Entropy, how can I explain it? I'll take it frame by frame it,
to have you all jumping, shouting saying it.
Let's just say that it's a measure of disorder,
in a system that is closed, like with a border.
It's sorta, like a, well a measurement of randomness,
proposed in 1850 by a German, but wait I digress.
"What the fsck is entropy?", I here the people still exclaiming,
it seems I gotta start the explaining.

You ever drop an egg and on the floor you see it break?
You go and get a mop so you can clean up your mistake.
But did you ever stop to ponder why we know it's true,
if you drop a broken egg you will not get an egg that's new.

That's entropy or E-N-T-R-O to the P to the Y,
the reason why the sun will one day all burn out and die.
Order from disorder is a scientific rarity,
allow me to explain it with a little bit more clarity.
Did I say rarity? I meant impossibility,
at least in a closed system there will always be more entropy.
That's entropy and I hope that you're all down with it,
if you are here's your membership.

Chorus
You down with entropy?
Yeah, you know me! (x3)
Who's down with entropy?
Every last homey!

Verse 2
Defining entropy as disorder's not complete,
'cause disorder as a definition doesn't cover heat.
So my first definition I would now like to withdraw,
and offer one that fits thermodynamics second law.
First we need to understand that entropy is energy,
energy that can't be used to state it more specifically.
In a closed system entropy always goes up,
that's the second law, now you know what's up.

You can't win, you can't break even, you can't leave the game,
'cause entropy will take it all 'though it seems a shame.
The second law, as we now know, is quite clear to state,
that entropy must increase and not dissipate.

Creationists always try to use the second law,
to disprove evolution, but their theory has a flaw.
The second law is quite precise about where it applies,
only in a closed system must the entropy count rise.
The earth's not a closed system' it's powered by the sun,
so fsck the damn creationists, Doomsday get my gun!
That, in a nutshell, is what entropy's about,
you're now down with a discount.

Chorus

Trash Talk
Hit it!
Doomsday, kick it in!
:music:

 

[Zanix]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Discuss.

Ilya Prigogine won a nobel prize for showing that orderly dissipative structures could form in systems far from thermodynamic equilibrium and create localized decreases in entropy while still preserving an overall increase in entropy within the system.

http://nobelprize.org/chemistry/laureates/1977/press.html

-Garth

Like there's lots of little evolutions going on in the universe?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: So
:music:
Entropy
Trash Talk
Harm me with harmony.
Doomsday, drop a load on 'em.

Kick it, MC Hawking!

 

[ruffilb]

HAHAHAHA, MC Hawking > J00

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: msparish
Entropy increases in a closed system. The Earth is not a closed system, we get outside energy from the sun. No contradiction.

This should be the end of the thread right here.