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Are Dual Non Xeon P4s Coming?

L

LanEVENT

Junior Member
I was just wondering if anyone knows when we might be able to get our hands on a Non Xeon Dual P4 system!

Thanks!
 
VIA demonstrated non-functioning motherboard models with dual-P4's but never released any working ones.
 
VIA demonstrated non-functioning motherboard models with dual-P4's but never released any working ones.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that's a handful! 🙂

Perhaps we could actually see 64bit pci/pci-x in a single cpu board!

I had to go with a dual board just to get 64/66. Of course I had to throw two MP's in there and now will never go back! No longer do I need to use another pc along side my worksatan when it's bogged down doing calculations! 🙂

Cheers!
 
Originally posted by: MadRat
VIA demonstrated non-functioning motherboard models with dual-P4's but never released any working ones.
Click to expand...

whats a non-functioning motherboard? when you just glue another socket to the mobo and claim it is a non-functioning dual-cpu demo?
 
How about we run the numbers for you LanEVENT. Intel wants to maximize profits, and Intel knows it can rightfully charge more for the dual processors than single ones (even AMD charges more for same speed MPs). Back when the P3 was Intel's top processor, Intel went overboard. The P3 1GHz with 256 kB cache currenly is being sold for $143. The P3 Xeon 1GHz with 256 kB cahce currently is being sold for $425. Look at the enormous price difference for basically the same speed chip. Now double that for a dual processor computer and the P3 chips alone will save you $560. This enormous savings gave a huge incentive for motherboard manufacturers to make dual P3 motherboards and sell them instead of dual P3 Xeon motherboards. There was enough consumer demand that it was worthwhile for the motherboard manufactuers to do it. Intel lost out on its greater profit since customers just purchased P3s instead of the P3 Xeons.

Fast forward to today. The 2.2 GHz P4 with 512 kB cache sells for $241. Intel changed the Xeon pricing strategy completely. A 2.2 GHz P4 Xeon with 512 kB cache sells for $262. If a customer could purchase a dual P4 they would save a measly 2*$21 = $42 - definately not worth the risk of running processors that aren't tested or approved for dual use. Thus there is little to no customer demand for dual P4 motherboards. No demand and you see there have not been any working motherboards designed yet. Intel is still happy since they get their price premium for the Xeons - customers are happy since they aren't paying excessive prices anymore. I use Xeons everyday - I certainly wouldn't risk using unapproved P4s just to save $42. Why do you want to?

Note 1: All prices I listed were official Intel prices in lots of 1000 chips - street prices can and do vary.
Note 2: It is rediculous to argue that a dual P4 motherboard will cost significantly less than a dual P4 Xeon motherboard - everything will be basically the same... So i stand pat with my $42 number.
 
Thanks for your thoughts!

I guess the only reason I wanted the Dual P4 was because it has the newest front side bus and all. Do you happen to know the plans for Xeons road map? Are the going to ramp to a 533 bus? I hope they plan on updating the Xeon chipset, I like the new 7500 but it doesnt have an AGP port, granted a server chipset. It would be nice to see a workstation version of it, since I feel the 860 is aging.

 
Yes Intel will release the 533 MHz fsb Xeon shortly. I don't have any good date (if anyone knows a more exact date, please let us know.) However I do have some thoughs for a rough date. Historically the Xeon motherboard are released 4-6 months after the equivalent change in the single processor (it takes time to go through the extra testing and validation). The 533 MHz fsb came out the first week of May - so if they stick with the past the 533 MHz fsb Xeons will be here in 1-3 months. A long time ago I saw rumors of an early 4th quarter release - meaning about 2 months from now. 3.06 GHz Xeons were rumored for early 2003 - meaning the 2.66 and 2.8 GHz Xeons really would be out this year. Intel rarely releases new chips in December (too late for end of year buying) so I wouldn't expect them to be that late. Thus I'd expect the 2.26, 2.4, 2.53, and 2.66 Xeons on 533 MHz fsb around the beginning of October give or take a month. I wouldn't expect to see the 2.8 GHz Xeons though until November.

I pay very little attention to chipsets. However Intel says here that their 860 replacement will be available this year. However you'd have to ask someone else if you want all the details of the replacement.

Edit: I found this related info. If you can trust The Inquirer it has 533 MHz Xeon pricing info at the bottom of that article but no date.
 
Honestly I haven't seen a single review on them anywhere. The best I can do is to assume it is the same as the equivalent 1.4 GHz - 1.6 GHz P4 for programs that don't need their excessive cache (which we all know weren't very fast). For programs that need lots of cache, then I'd expect a small but signifcant speed boost over the regular P4. Anand once said that the next server benchmark he does will probably include them. Until then the only benchmarks I know of are from Intel itself. I hope the 2.0 GHz Xeon MPs will be here this quarter and then we might finally have someone review them.
 
Dullard, i think you're wrong.

They are not even based on the P4 desktop core, totally different core from what I hear. I remember tom (at tomshardware) making a comment saying they are like P3 tualatins, but with more cache, a netburst archetiture, and more performance per Mhz.

I find it odd that they pit a 1MB cache XeonMP against a 2MB cache P3 Xeon.
 
It is rediculous to argue that a dual P4 motherboard will cost significantly less than a dual P4 Xeon motherboard - everything will be basically the same... So i stand pat with my $42 number.
Click to expand...
Why is that? Dual socket 478 vs. dual socket 603...that's quite a few extra traces to go into the motherboard design. Although most, if not all, the extra pins are probably for more stable power to the CPUs. 😉
 
What sort of packaging do the XeonMPs come in? I haven't heard. I didn't even know it wouldn't be 603. 😱
 
Originally posted by: dexvx
Dullard, i think you're wrong.

They are not even based on the P4 desktop core, totally different core from what I hear. I remember tom (at tomshardware) making a comment saying they are like P3 tualatins, but with more cache, a netburst archetiture, and more performance per Mhz.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong about the core (since there haven't been any reviews that I've read). It has many similarities to the P4 (And P4 based Xeons) though which made me conclude that. These include:
1) Hyperthreading
2) Netburst
3) 400 MHz fsb
4) Large frequencies (1.4 GHz - 1.6 GHz versus the 900 MHz of their P3 Xeons)
5) SSE2
6) Dual channel memory
7) Uses the 0.18 micron process for the 1.4 GHz to 1.6 GHz processors
8) Uses 8kB trace L1 cache.

None of these features is in the P3 based Xeons so I assumed the Xeon MPs. Is it possible that you are thinking of the P3 S (the high cache Tualatin based multiprocessor server chip on a 0.13 micron process?)

I find it odd that they pit a 1MB cache XeonMP against a 2MB cache P3 Xeon.
Click to expand...
I think the comparison is a good one. The 900 MHz 2 MB cache P3 Xeon is their top P3 based Xeon processor selling for $3692. The 1.6 GHz 1 MB cache Xeon MP is their top Xeon MP processor selling for the exact same $3692 price. A comparison of top processors at the same price is a good comparison. Too bad they don't include more processors though.
 
Originally posted by: ObiDon
Why is that? Dual socket 478 vs. dual socket 603...that's quite a few extra traces to go into the motherboard design. Although most, if not all, the extra pins are probably for more stable power to the CPUs. 😉
Click to expand...
I included that statement since I've seen people try to argue that a dual Xeon motherboard sells for $375 but a dual P4 motherboard would cost only $50 just like regular P4 motherboards. That arguement is just simply not true. I agree with you that there are 250 more pins (mostly for power stability) but those extra pins don't cost that much more to impliment and the rest of the motherboard is basically the same. So maybe a dual P4 motherboard will be a bit cheaper than a dual Xeon, but really it won't be too much cheaper.
 
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