Are Cheap Phones The Solution To Android Updates?

[poofyhairguy]

The Android update model is broken, that is clear. Attempts to fix the problem- Google Play Editions, the Android Update Alliance, etc. - have all failed. It is now clear that this problem will never be solved, outside of the Nexus line at least. If you are an Android enthusiast this sucks because it means if you want updates your consideration set is very small.

With that said, these commodity phones have come a long way. Flagship specs in 2014 is now in sub-$150 phones, and I expect by the end of this year we will have sub-$200 phones with flagship 2015 specs. None of them will get updates, but the hardware the day you buy it is a great value.

Which makes me wonder- are cheap smartphones the answer to Android's update problems?

Basically instead of purposefully buying a flagship like a Nexus that you hope to keep for years, why not just buy a $150 phone every year and throw it away and get a new one when the new OS rolls out? Why even try to chase the update dragon if the phone is so cheap you don't care that it doesn't last years?

The obvious downside to this is a cheap phone won't match a flagship the year it is released, and will have compromises to hit that price point. The good part is that you need a phone case less (as the phone is basically disposable) which means less bulk in your pocket.

Anyone see a downside to this strategy I am missing? I mean besides the environmental implications.

 

[shortylickens]

The Android update model is broken, that is clear.

I dont know if thats hyperbole or just plain BS.



My phone works perfectly fine. I'll get Marshmallow when they give it to me. I can wait. Theres nothing wrong that needs fixing right now and I'm not chomping at the bit for smoother icons.

Maybe the solution is good phones that work out of the box, instead of cheap phones that never work regardless of their OS.

 

[KeithP]

Sounds like a plan if you only care about getting a single big OS update once in awhile. Not such a good plan if you want security/bug fixes as soon as they are available.

-KeithP

 

[Crono]

I think the PC market shows where the smartphone market is headed. Most consumers will be satisfied with their current phones for a few years as new models seem less and less of an improvement in hardware over the previous generation.

Google and their OEM partners are just going to have to get better at updating Android. They are already at least trying to address security updates. Maybe Google will just settle one version number of Android for a while, much like Apple did with OS X and Windows has with 10, and have all essential updates get pushed though like the app model. Continuous updates seem to be the norm of computing now, anyway, it just seems to be that the carriers and OEMs have to get on board with the idea.

Phone manufacturers would love to keep the 6-12 month flagship release cycle going and have consumers upgrade every year, but I doubt they'll get everyone to do so.
I don't doubt that some people (especially enthusiasts like us) will buy new phones frequently - and certainly cheap phones make it easier to do so - but there a lot of people who don't like to get a new device unless it's a iPhone or Galaxy phone that is especially pretty or has a compelling feature that makes it a "must have".

Cheap phones also often ship with old versions of Android, by the way. A lot of inexpensive phones have the guts of older flagships, and are less likely to be on the newest flavor of Android than a flagship. It takes resources to manufacture, test, and release a phone in tandem with Google's releases. There's a reason why the Nexus program and Android Silver (does that still exist?) take more direct partnerships between Google and the manufacturers. And Google has even stepped up their involvement in HTC's next Nexus(es) by moving closer to direct control of the manufacturing process.

 

[ControlD]

I dont know if thats hyperbole or just plain BS.



My phone works perfectly fine. I'll get Marshmallow when they give it to me. I can wait. Theres nothing wrong that needs fixing right now and I'm not chomping at the bit for smoother icons.

Maybe the solution is good phones that work out of the box, instead of cheap phones that never work regardless of their OS.

Your phone working fine and Android's update model being broken have nothing to do with each other.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Sounds like a plan if you only care about getting a single big OS update once in awhile. Not such a good plan if you want security/bug fixes as soon as they are available.

Good point I didn't consider. What are monthly Android updates actually worth though? Android isn't a huge security risk.

Honestly I get kinda annoyed having to rebuild all my apps on the reboot every month, so they aren't worth jack to me. I just want major feature changes that come with new OSes.

Theres nothing wrong that needs fixing right now and I'm not chomping at the bit for smoother icons.

I wish it was just icon tweaks, but Google is still baking real updates into their phones. Doze was HUGE, everyone who doesn't have Marshmellow should be dying to get it just for Doze. It pretty much singlehandedly fixes a lot of battery life issues, and the next version will have pocket Doze to make it even better.

Not caring about the updates surely is an option, that means ignoring their benefits which is hard for an enthusiast.

 

[shortylickens]

Not caring about the updates surely is an option, that means ignoring their benefits which is hard for an enthusiast.

Thats fine but it doesnt mean Androids update system is broken.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Google and their OEM partners are just going to have to get better at updating Android.

We keep saying that, but it doesn't happen again and again. And I don't know how they could do it now, the horse left that barn years ago. Someone like Samsung would fork before they would lose the right to skin the OS, they proved that with smartwatches.

I don't see the security updates as a path to a better commitment from OEMs on updates. Samsung agreed to the plan, and then took FOREVER to get out the OS update for the S6. In some way maybe the security updates makes it worse, because it gives OEMs an excuse not to do more.

They are already at least trying to address security updates. Maybe Google will just settle one version number of Android for a while, much like Apple did with OS X and Windows has with 10, and have all essential updates get pushed though like the app model.

I just don't see that happening, hence the thread. For that to happen one of two things would need to happen:

1. Google controls all OS updates Chrome OS-style. There is no plan for this, and might lead to a fork or two.

2. Google stops updating Android beyond an app level, which also seems years out. Android is not a mature OS yet, each version has a bunch of new important features.

I mean I would love to hear a plan of how they are fixing the problem, but I don't see ANYTHING like that. In fact we see the opposite- the concept that Google might throw its hands up and make its own phones like it does Pixel products.

At that point their pressure on OEMs might decrease and things might get worse. At some point you the consumer has to make choices to solve problems best for you rather than live in dreamland.

Phone manufacturers would love to keep the 6-12 month flagship release cycle going and have consumers upgrade every year, but I doubt they'll get everyone to do so.

I think the real problem with Android is "most" consumers don't care about updates. Updates change things or get in your way, no one LIKES updates unless they get new stuff and so much of the "new" stuff in Android updates isn't apparent.

If consumers cared about updates this would have been fixed years ago. They only care when they have to, when something like Stagefright makes them.

 

[lxskllr]

Either that, or release the specs, and let the owners of the phones hack on them themselves.

 

[JimKiler]

At some point hardware and operating systems will plateau but I think we are a couple years from that. I am still waiting for marshmallow on my Samsung 10.5 tablet from last year. I am supposed to get it in April. Samsung cannot keep up.

 

[RockinZ28]

At some point hardware and operating systems will plateau but I think we are a couple years from that. I am still waiting for marshmallow on my Samsung 10.5 tablet from last year. I am supposed to get it in April. Samsung cannot keep up.

That's why I prefer to just take matters into my own hands.

Running Marshmallow on my Tab S. Not perfect, but it's better than that Touchwiz crap and waiting for Samsung. Think I read they aren't updating my tab officially anyway.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Nothing is going to get done because Google can care less whether a $10 phone runs outdated Lollipop or the latest version on a $700+ "phone of the year...again" as long as they mine user data. The update situation is completely orthogonal to their real business model.

Then you also have the another fundamental issue that most people are willing to accept a TON of quality compromises including lack of updates and security on cheapo phones precisely because of the pricing. OEMs know this and acts accordingly...which is to do nothing.

There is no push from the vendors or pull from consumers outside of the dwindling Android flagship niche circles to solve the update problem.

 

[Oyeve]

I change phones probably every 6 months. I never have a phone long enough to get an update. The stack of phones I have probably had updates but I never use them long enough to actually get one. The only device I have in use longer than a year is my tab pro 8.4 and they will never update it as Samsung abandoned the pro line.

 

[Beer4Me]

The Android update model is broken, that is clear. Attempts to fix the problem- Google Play Editions, the Android Update Alliance, etc. - have all failed. It is now clear that this problem will never be solved, outside of the Nexus line at least. If you are an Android enthusiast this sucks because it means if you want updates your consideration set is very small.

With that said, these commodity phones have come a long way. Flagship specs in 2014 is now in sub-$150 phones, and I expect by the end of this year we will have sub-$200 phones with flagship 2015 specs. None of them will get updates, but the hardware the day you buy it is a great value.

Which makes me wonder- are cheap smartphones the answer to Android's update problems?

Basically instead of purposefully buying a flagship like a Nexus that you hope to keep for years, why not just buy a $150 phone every year and throw it away and get a new one when the new OS rolls out? Why even try to chase the update dragon if the phone is so cheap you don't care that it doesn't last years?

The obvious downside to this is a cheap phone won't match a flagship the year it is released, and will have compromises to hit that price point. The good part is that you need a phone case less (as the phone is basically disposable) which means less bulk in your pocket.

Anyone see a downside to this strategy I am missing? I mean besides the environmental implications.

IMHO, these reasons are why I'll never go back to Android:

-Updates too slow to release or non-existent after purchase, this is often due to fragmentation caused by the need for carriers to vet/install bloatware in Google's OS

-Manufacturers often stop supporting a model because they have to focus on the next big thing (Motorola/Samsung). So you buy an Android phone/tablet to only learn 6 months later, oh, there's no update for this and they'll never be one. Manufacturers won't spend time/money supporting older models. They don't care because the Android hardware industry as a whole seems to be treated as a "must have, latest and greatest" all the time. New model comes out, and now all of a sudden you're 6 month old device just became legacy. Sure Apple releases a new iPhone every 7 months, but at least, it's still supported! Doesn't matter if it's getting slower, it's still getting software/firmware updates, buddy.

-Hardware: there's too much junk to support and code for, mainly from China. Google needs to vet the hardware like Apple or Microsoft does. Maybe implement a type of WHQL but for Android so, GHQL? If they can cut down the number of crap hardware and drivers, maybe they can get software updates out more timely. This is unlikely to happen due to the OpenSource nature of the OS however.

-Google is the problem. They need to be the one that controls the software updates across all phones not just their own. If manufacturers want to skin the OS, that's fine. Let them. But it needs to be done as an add-on/option.

I know this is an older article, but damn.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/with-marshmallow-still-toasting-1-in-5-android-devices-run-lollipop/

 

[Beer4Me]

Nothing is going to get done because Google can care less whether a $10 phone runs outdated Lollipop or the latest version on a $700+ "phone of the year...again" as long as they mine user data. The update situation is completely orthogonal to their real business model.

Then you also have the another fundamental issue that most people are willing to accept a TON of quality compromises including lack of updates and security on cheapo phones precisely because of the pricing. OEMs know this and acts accordingly...which is to do nothing.

There is no push from the vendors or pull from consumers outside of the dwindling Android flagship niche circles to solve the update problem.

Yep. Vicious cycle...

 

[ControlD]

-Google is the problem. They need to be the one that controls the software updates across all phones not just their own. If manufacturers want to skin the OS, that's fine. Let them. But it needs to be done as an add-on/option.

I know this is an older article, but damn.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/with-marshmallow-still-toasting-1-in-5-android-devices-run-lollipop/

I don't know how Google is expected to enforce that. Android is open source. The only thing Google can hold over the heads of the individual OEMs is access to the Play Store and the Google apps. That risks even more severe fragmentation.

 

[JimKiler]

I don't know how Google is expected to enforce that. Android is open source. The only thing Google can hold over the heads of the individual OEMs is access to the Play Store and the Google apps. That risks even more severe fragmentation.

Agreed, it is not really google's problem. When you buy a phone from a carrier your are getting an ATT or Verizon phone that just happens to run andriod. Google wants to be open enough that manufacturers and carriers sell phones with google OS on it. So unless you buy a Nexus phone you are not getting a Google phone. Google does give updates and security patches. But look at how many people buy those phones. The problem is consumer choice.

 

[jhu]

Thats fine but it doesnt mean Androids update system is broken.

Uhm, it is broken. How many Android phones still have the shellshock vulnerability? Or the first and second stagefright vulnerabilities? Updates aren't just for fancy UI enhancements.

The Nexus line, while better than other Android phones with regard to updates, is still woefully behind iPhones. Google stopped supporting the Nexus 4, which is still a perfectly viable phone released 11/2012. Meanwhile iPhone 4s, even though released 10/2011 (a full year before Nexus 4), gets the latest iOS.

 

[Raduque]

The only problem with your post is not everybody can use those disposable android phones. I'm on Verizon. I can't just buy a cheap chinaphone every year and put my VZ sim in it.

Pretty much limited to Things Verizon Sells, the Moto X Pure, Nexus or iPhone.

 

[sweenish]

Uhm, it is broken. How many Android phones still have the shellshock vulnerability? Or the first and second stagefright vulnerabilities? Updates aren't just for fancy UI enhancements.

The Nexus line, while better than other Android phones with regard to updates, is still woefully behind iPhones. Google stopped supporting the Nexus 4, which is still a perfectly viable phone released 11/2012. Meanwhile iPhone 4s, even though released 10/2011 (a full year before Nexus 4), gets the latest iOS.

And that's not a completely fair comparison, since iOS 9 runs like a dog on an iPhone 4s, and it's more running "iOS 9" than it is iOS 9. So many features have been left out to get that number there in the about phone screen. If an Android phone gets Marshmallow, it gets Marshmallow, no ifs, ands, or buts.

With that said, the phones have certainly got good enough that the amount of support Google offers is not good at all.

 

[JimKiler]

And that's not a completely fair comparison, since iOS 9 runs like a dog on an iPhone 4s, and it's more running "iOS 9" than it is iOS 9. So many features have been left out to get that number there in the about phone screen. If an Android phone gets Marshmallow, it gets Marshmallow, no ifs, ands, or buts.

With that said, the phones have certainly got good enough that the amount of support Google offers is not good at all.

I did not know Apple trims iOS to get backwards compatibility, interesting.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The only problem with your post is not everybody can use those disposable android phones. I'm on Verizon. I can't just buy a cheap chinaphone every year and put my VZ sim in it.

If you are on Verizon you gave up fighting about updates years ago I bet, they are the worst. Plus don't they get the Moto G every year?

The Nexus line, while better than other Android phones with regard to updates, is still woefully behind iPhones. Google stopped supporting the Nexus 4, which is still a perfectly viable phone released 11/2012. Meanwhile iPhone 4s, even though released 10/2011 (a full year before Nexus 4), gets the latest iOS.

One problem is Android has really bloated up in recent years. When they let old devices update (like the Nexus 7 2012) sometimes they run like a dog. I know I wouldn't want bloated Lollipop on a Nexus 4, it barely runs on a Nexus 5 (or hell 5X) worth a damn. It isn't a viable phone for new versions of Android anymore. Neither is a 4S IMHO.

Plus just because phones don't get software updates doesn't mean they don't get security updates. Samsung is going back and patching many old phones and sending out security updates. What is lacking is OS updates and new features.

Then you also have the another fundamental issue that most people are willing to accept a TON of quality compromises including lack of updates and security on cheapo phones precisely because of the pricing. OEMs know this and acts accordingly...which is to do nothing.

I don't know how we can expect more. Phone OEMs barely make any money, if you are talking about a sub-$200 phone the margins almost don't exist. Every update they give you (which takes development and QA testing) cuts into that margin. Developing markets are the real challenge because OS updates take bandwidth and they take a solid connection, which isn't a given.

Google has figured out that they need to take on more of the OS update burden, that is why Chrome OS can't be skinned and Android Wear can't be skinned. But at this point they can't enforce that for Android or the ecosystem will fragment further. Their solution is to put as much as possible in the Play Store and allow people to get updates that way, but you can't get something like Doze via the Play Store.

That is why I have given up on Android fixing its OS model, at this point that is what you accept if you chose to stick with Android. Since Android is my favorite mobile OS despite this I am willing to find other solutions, like buying cheap phones yearly or finding a way to live with a disappointing Nexus.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Either that, or release the specs, and let the owners of the phones hack on them themselves.

Qualcomm- the most popular SoC maker here in the US- does release all the documentation. Hell they do one better, they make open soruce drivers. That is why CM usually runs so much better on a Qualcomm Galaxy then a Exynos one. Android is also open source, right up until the Play Store. That is one complaint we can't have with Android phones, it is easily the most popular open consumer OS of all time.

 

[jhu]

One problem is Android has really bloated up in recent years. When they let old devices update (like the Nexus 7 2012) sometimes they run like a dog. I know I wouldn't want bloated Lollipop on a Nexus 4, it barely runs on a Nexus 5 (or hell 5X) worth a damn. It isn't a viable phone for new versions of Android anymore. Neither is a 4S IMHO.

CM13 (Marshmellow) runs just fine on my Nexus 4.

I don't know how we can expect more. Phone OEMs barely make any money, if you are talking about a sub-$200 phone the margins almost don't exist. Every update they give you (which takes development and QA testing) cuts into that margin. Developing markets are the real challenge because OS updates take bandwidth and they take a solid connection, which isn't a given.

Google has figured out that they need to take on more of the OS update burden, that is why Chrome OS can't be skinned and Android Wear can't be skinned. But at this point they can't enforce that for Android or the ecosystem will fragment further. Their solution is to put as much as possible in the Play Store and allow people to get updates that way, but you can't get something like Doze via the Play Store.

That is why I have given up on Android fixing its OS model, at this point that is what you accept if you chose to stick with Android. Since Android is my favorite mobile OS despite this I am willing to find other solutions, like buying cheap phones yearly or finding a way to live with a disappointing Nexus.

This is why Google should be setting the best example with its Nexus line.

 

[sweenish]

One problem is Android has really bloated up in recent years. When they let old devices update (like the Nexus 7 2012) sometimes they run like a dog. I know I wouldn't want bloated Lollipop on a Nexus 4, it barely runs on a Nexus 5 (or hell 5X) worth a damn. It isn't a viable phone for new versions of Android anymore. Neither is a 4S IMHO.

I disagree with this paragraph. Starting at JB 4.3, Android has largely been slimming down. Lollipop wasn't a problem due to bloat, it was memory issues more than anything. Marshmallow has, for the most part, remedied this. My N7 2013 hasn't been this smooth since KitKat. I think N will be to my current devices what KitKat was. I will probably have to root and go back to ROMs (only going for AOSP-type stuff, don't even want root)to get it, but it will be worth it.

And the N7 2012 was pretty much always a dog due to hardware. Support for the N4 could easily be continued, I think. My N7 2013's SoC is not that much more powerful. Google just doesn't sell enough Nexus devices to justify longer official support periods, I imagine. At least they're Nexus devices, though.