Are Asetek liquid cooling complete kits any good?

Zap

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http://www.svc.com/sale.html

As always, I'm curious and low prices always panders to the cheap bastard in me.

What's the difference between the normal and "Extreme" versions, thicker radiator? Are their blocks and pumps any good? What cards do their GPU blocks fit on? They just say "compatible with ATI and Nvidia."
 

aigomorla

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zap

i posted in your BF ad.

The astek kit that is on sale is pre 2000 junk.
 

Schmide

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The biggest factor with a watercooling system is the radiator. For the most part

(the 1,2,3,4 denotes the number of 120mm fans)

120.1 will cool a low en processor or video card. < 150w
120.2 will handle a higher end processor or video card < 250w
120.3 will handle both a processor and a video card or a really extremey overclocked I7 <400w
120.4 will handle a processor + 2 video cards. < 500w

Edit: There is some extra effect on the number of fins and channels as well as thickness. For the black ice series Extreme denotes a denser rad.

I have no idea where this pre 2000 junk comes from? I think the HW labs black ice series came out circa 2003-4.

Sure a great block and pump will give you the extra edge, but the variance between high end and mediocre is usually a few degrees, as well water flow has been shown to have an equal margin on performance.
 
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aigomorla

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I have no idea where this pre 2000 junk comes from. I think the HW labs black ice series came out circa 2003-4.

Oh u know what i missed the part about hwlabs.

Either way, that pump is VERY VERY OLD.

Its a old Hydrol LR1.

Its older then my DDC-2's even. :T
 

Schmide

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Either way, that pump is VERY VERY OLD.

Its a old Hydrol LR1.

Its older then my DDC-2's even. :T

Did you miss Cathar's testing on tube sizes and water flow?

They may not have the cool factor your low profile DDCs have but they're the same class of 200-300GPH pump. For an entry level kit it will get the job done.

Who cares? Pump technology hasn't changed since the mid 80s.
 

aigomorla

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Did you miss Cathar's testing on tube sizes and water flow?

They may not have the cool factor your low profile DDCs have but they're the same class of 200-300GPH pump. For an entry level kit it will get the job done.

Who cares? Pump technology hasn't changed since the mid 80s.

actually a lot.

that pump is no longer in circulation.

They EOL'd it.

On top Astek never went back to mid range kits after that. They went to budget kits such as the H5O which is also made by astek.

Water now is not what it was back then. Water has had the biggest evolution in cooling in the past 5 yrs alone.

Also i heard a lot of bad reviews on that pump. Thats why we started pushing delphi pumps.
 

Schmide

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actually a lot.

that pump is no longer in circulation.

They EOL'd it.

Or did they rename it to the L20? For what they cost Hydor Seltz makes good pumps.

On top Astek never went back to mid range kits after that. They went to budget kits such as the H5O which is also made by astek.

Seriously a distraction? Either you comment on the kits or not.

Water now is not what it was back then. Water has had the biggest evolution in cooling in the past 5 yrs alone.

I've been watercooling for at least 10 years now, since the days of jb welded blocks. This is just my poop doesn't stink elitism. Sure it's not a $300 custom kit, but it's not junk either.

I would say the biggest evolution came in the Little River Storm series, which ironically is what these blocks are directly designed off of.

Also i heard a lot of bad reviews on that pump. Thats why we started pushing delphi pumps.

Really? I haven't. I have heard bad reviews and more than average failures on pumps but that was mostly the MAG 1,2 series and the early Thermaltake.

You called the kit junk, is that a "My water cooling is better than yours attitude?" or a "Keep water cooling pure no pre-made kits please?" Either way please back up your comments better.
 

aigomorla

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Or did they rename it to the L20? For what they cost Hydor Seltz makes good pumps.

Seriously a distraction? Either you comment on the kits or not.

I've been watercooling for at least 10 years now, since the days of jb welded blocks. This is just my poop doesn't stink elitism. Sure it's not a $300 custom kit, but it's not junk either.

I would say the biggest evolution came in the Little River Storm series, which ironically is what these blocks are directly designed off of.

Really? I haven't. I have heard bad reviews and more than average failures on pumps but that was mostly the MAG 1,2 series and the early Thermaltake.

You called the kit junk, is that a "My water cooling is better than yours attitude?" or a "Keep water cooling pure no pre-made kits please?" Either way please back up your comments better.

I said your better off getting a H5O over this kit because the H5O is newer.
Its all initiated, and its pre leaked tested.

This kit still has all the responsibilities a DYO kit would assume.

The kit is OLD. The newer kits by swiftech for example is a better solution as it uses more recient parts.

This OLD kit uses an WaterChill Antarctica CPU Cooler.
I dont think your gonna get ANY of the new mount available on this block because THEY EOL'd it.

I am the type to tell people on water, either commit all the way, or dont commit at all.

A CHEAP waterkit always = TROUBLE.

And i have been watercooling longer then you have. Sorry pal, im going longer then 10 yrs now.

Also Since when was TT, and CPS pump included as a Delphi pump. MAG is by CPS no? Thats why it was called a CPS MAG II?

Incase you didnt know Delphi is LAING.

DDC-3.2 D5... these pumps are also known as the MCP350, MCP355, MCP655.
you wanna really compare a L20 over a MCP series? This alone would make any h2o vet crack up.

So elitism attitude? No its called im telling people to shop smart on water, or DONT shop it at all.

Is that bad?

MCR320 = 50 dollars on discount
MCP355 = 60 dollars
XSPC Top = 20 dollars
XSPC Delta v3 =40 dollars
Tubing and accessories = addition 30 dollars.

total comes out to 200 dollars... however that 50 dollar difference would be noticeable because your using a lot better parts.

So elitism? Not really, its just me telling people DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.
Do it right, and have a BETTER EXPERIENCE.

If a member has a good water experience he will come back to water, and continue to water.
If a member has a disaster, he will never look at water again, and scorn water forever.

Im trying to make sure route 1 is always the 100&#37; outcome and not route 2.

So when a friend like Zap asks me this question (which he has twice), i am gonna make sure he doesnt stick his head in a live cannon, and get his head blown off.
 
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Schmide

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I said your better off getting a H5O over this kit because the H5O is newer.
Its all initiated, and its pre leaked tested.

and has an aluminum radiator? So newer is better regardless of the components used as well as ability to upgrade?

This kit still has all the responsibilities a DYO kit would assume.

The kit is OLD. The newer kits by swiftech for example is a better solution as it uses more recient parts.

This OLD kit uses an WaterChill Antarctica CPU Cooler.
I dont think your gonna get ANY of the new mount available on this block because THEY EOL'd it.

So I guess a hold down bracket to make up the 3-8mm spacing for less than a few bucks is out of the question? On a 1156 I bet you could make it work without it, at the very least with some vinyl posts.

I am the type to tell people on water, either commit all the way, or dont commit at all.

and you're not elitist? (see below)

A CHEAP waterkit always = TROUBLE.

Always? Kind of a blanket statement. The reality is no matter how many custom setups are sold, many more kits are sold. Reality is if users ignore maintenance, any system is going to fail.

And i have been watercooling longer then you have. Sorry pal, im going longer then 10 yrs now.

I said at least BTW. I can't remember the exact time in the late 90s when I put together my first system.

Also Since when was TT, and CPS pump included as a Delphi pump. MAG is by CPS no? Thats why it was called a CPS MAG II?

Incase you didnt know Delphi is LAING.

DDC-3.2 D5... these pumps are also known as the MCP350, MCP355, MCP655.
you wanna really compare a L20 over a MCP series? This alone would make any h2o vet crack up.

Did I ever put them ahead of any of those series? BTW didn't the MPC300 series have some issues with chamber leakage? I've seen more than a few posts about this.

So elitism attitude? No its called im telling people to shop smart on water, or DONT shop it at all.

Is that bad?

Yes. If you ignore value and make blanket statements you do the watercooling community no justice.

MCR320 = 50 dollars on discount
MCP355 = 60 dollars
XSPC Top = 20 dollars
XSPC Delta v3 =40 dollars
Tubing and accessories = addition 30 dollars.

total comes out to 200 dollars... however that 50 dollar difference would be noticeable because your using a lot better parts.

I would have some issues with that $30 figure for accessories. Fans alone can make up at least half of that, fittings are often extra, clamps, etc. If you look at any kit (w/ 120.3 rad) the the big custom shops put out you will never find one for near $200. (petras, HSF, performance-pcs, etc)

Would that $50+ dollar difference actually be noticeable compared to the $150 kit in that sale? (regardless of ignoring the value of the 2 other blocks and the unique controller)

So elitism? Not really, its just me telling people DONT WASTE YOUR TIME.
Do it right, and have a BETTER EXPERIENCE.

If a member has a good water experience he will come back to water, and continue to water.
If a member has a disaster, he will never look at water again, and scorn water forever.

Im trying to make sure route 1 is always the 100% outcome and not route 2.

So when a friend like Zap asks me this question (which he has twice), i am gonna make sure he doesnt stick his head in a live cannon, and get his head blown off.

Ironically Zap got the $80 kit. I already have a full setup but got one as well. It's just a darn good price for the components you get and is far from junk you would see in a pre-2000 era kit.

By the above logic, you could never recommend anything of value regardless of the pros and cons.
 

aigomorla

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Yes the ALU rad package in the H5O is better in this regard.
Why? Because the parts were pre-tested, and pre configed.
Less chance of an OOPS to happen.

I dont see the need for a newbie to have to "mickey mouse" any water setup now. We dont need to, because as i said, its evolved a ton load.

Hold down bracket... WHY? if you pieced out your system with a better block you wouldnt need to mickey mouse a water setup now is it?
Im trying to save people from Mickey Mousing entirely.

Whats wrong with 30 dollars in assessories?
Yates @ 4 dollars per fan = 16 dollars and leaves you 14 dollars on tubing + barbs.
IS my number off?

Chamber Leakage? Okey Link?
Ive been using MCP-300 series for a VERY VERY Long time, and i have more DDC's then i have fingers even.

Care to show me about this leakage? The DDC-2 had problems of dying because of the design, Laing then made a revision on it called the DDC-3.2 and DDC-3.25, and those are pretty much the best little pumps you can buy on the market now.

Difference in performance?
So you think having more flow + head pressure + a larger radiator + better cpu block doesnt merit a 50 dollar package?

Lastly you still wanna talk about elitism? Have you seen me recommending any Elite gear?
(maybe my definition of elite and yours is different.. im lost in why you keep calling it elite gear when its mostly Standard in our hobby.)

I dont recomend anything i run unless you really have the budget to run it.

The 50 dollar plus on a real DYO kit, with better blocks + pump with NO MIKEY MOUSE REQUIRED = Win over this astek kit.

I dont want to tell the newbie to mickey mouse his mounts.
If your asking this question on if you should buy this kit, your obviously new to water.
That was the mentality i was thinking.

If your not new to water, like you, then you can use your own judgement on if you want the kit or not. Ive butchered enough kits to get just 1-2 parts out of it.
But to a newbie, your only showing him a dark road, when a well lighted one is just a tad bit further.
 
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Schmide

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Yes the ALU rad package in the H5O is better in this regard.
Why? Because the parts were pre-tested, and pre configed.
Less chance of an OOPS to happen.

The rad on the H50 cooler is way less than even the black ice pro with the cheap kits, it is much less value per $.

I guess when Asetek designed the kit, they just threw it together? There is always a chance for an OOPS in watercooling.

I dont see the need for a newbie to have to "mickey mouse" any water setup now. We dont need to, because as i said, its evolved a ton load.

Hold down bracket... WHY? if you pieced out your system with a better block you wouldnt need to mickey mouse a water setup now is it?
Im trying to save people from Mickey Mousing entirely.

Whats wrong with 30 dollars in assessories?
Yates @ 4 dollars per fan = 16 dollars and leaves you 14 dollars on tubing + barbs.
IS my number off?

You only need 3 fans so $12, no res so you need a t-line, 11 clamps, fillport? 9-12ft tubing, additives, etc , it adds up. Probably $10-20 more.

In the other thread the discussion of use with other sockets has been put forth.

Chamber Leakage? Okey Link?
Ive been using MCP-300 series for a VERY VERY Long time, and i have more DDC's then i have fingers even.

Care to show me about this leakage? The DDC-2 had problems of dying because of the design, Laing then made a revision on it called the DDC-3.2 and DDC-3.25, and those are pretty much the best little pumps you can buy on the market now.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=619998

I've seen others. There will always be a few of any product line that have troubles. Pumps have moving parts, orings, etc.

Difference in performance?
So you think having more flow + head pressure + a larger radiator + better cpu block doesnt merit a 50 dollar package?

Price vs performance? If you rephrase this. Does the $50+ cost justify a few degree difference?

Lastly you still wanna talk about elitism? Have you seen me recommending any Elite gear?
(maybe my definition of elite and yours is different.. im lost in why you keep calling it elite gear when its mostly Standard in our hobby.)

No I saw you calling something from circa 2004, pre 2000 junk, without taking into account the totality of the components nor justifying your statement.

I dont recomend anything i run unless you really have the budget to run it.

The 50 dollar plus on a real DYO kit, with better blocks + pump with NO MIKEY MOUSE REQUIRED = Win over this astek kit.

That's fine, the key word here is budget. Yes you can get a better kit, but for the price vs performance offered. No you can't. Well at least not without some give or take.

I dont want to tell the newbie to mickey mouse his mounts.
If your asking this question on if you should buy this kit, your obviously new to water.
That was the mentality i was thinking.

Ehh you can think what you want. I maintain a relatively high end WC setup, but am never afraid to play with lesser components and do get very good results from them.

If your not new to water, like you, then you can use your own judgement on if you want the kit or not. Ive butchered enough kits to get just 1-2 parts out of it.
But to a newbie, your only showing him a dark road, when a well lighted one is just a tad bit further.

I used my judgment and in all these posts in the various threads I've shown the pros and cons of the various pieces of equipment and their prices. I did not; however, make exaggerations to the age, value, and performance of the topic at hand.
 

aigomorla

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And i applogized on that radiator comment.
Astek is one of the older companys along with innovotek...

And from enough people who ask me for help, yes i think i can think what i want, because im at about a 100&#37; satisfaction ratio with what i recommend.

@ lesser components...

Was the XSPC Delta V3 ever considered a high class block?
Lesser components vs. EOL'd components.

Your missing the entire perspective.
Why would i want someone to buy something that's relatively EOL'd in our hobby?
Also which would offer 0 support on the new platforms.

Isnt a point of a KIT so you have something working out of the box, and not have to mickey mouse with it?

And u need to check jab-tech or sidewinders prices.. with 30 dollars i was always able to buy the accessories required to finish any loop.

And if u have a high performance loop, i know for a FACT you wouldn't be recommending this. Because your high end kit should be full of Options galore. Or should be able to support options glore.

Care to list what your high performance loops is composed of? with how many loops total your running. (curious to know what your running).

Lastly Your link:
I havent seen this problem unless the user messed up installing an aftermarket TOP somehow. Or Faulty Oring.

Also if you read the other comments in that link you posted, everyone is going WTF.
I think that many WTF's is enough to lead you to think its just a bad batch.

I have 10+ DDC's once again, 2 of which are DDC-2, and ive only had 2 die on me which were DDC-2. But that's because they ran way too hot, and i burnt the pcb out.
 
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Schmide

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And i applogized on that radiator comment.

Oh u know what i missed the part about hwlabs.

Followed by pump criticism. Not exactly an apology.

And from enough people who ask me for help, yes i think i can think what i want, because im at about a 100&#37; satisfaction ratio with what i recommend.

I was very unsatisfied with your generalization of the kit. You're now at 99.9% satisfaction.

@ lesser components...

Was the XSPC Delta V3 ever considered a high class block?
Lesser components vs. EOL'd components.

Your missing the entire perspective.
Why would i want someone to buy something that's relatively EOL'd in our hobby?
Also which would offer 0 support on the new platforms.

Isnt a point of a KIT so you have something working out of the box, and not have to mickey mouse with it?

I think you're missing perspective. The whole concept of giving advice is to weigh the pros and cons of any purchase or implementation. If you would have maybe said, it has a decent radiator, a slightly dated block, mediocre pump/res, adequate 3/8" tubing, etc. You could however get this, this and this that would be better with this much more effort. Kit vs custom, value, etc. That would have been perspective. Instead you took the easy it's just junk route.

And u need to check jab-tech or sidewinders prices.. with 30 dollars i was always able to buy the accessories required to finish any loop.

Every time you shop around you add $10 in shipping. I seriously doubt it? You're leaving something off, or skimping on something.

And if u have a high performance loop, i know for a FACT you wouldn't be recommending this.

Care to list what your high performance loops is composed of? with how many loops total your running. (curious to know what your running).

I said relatively. I have a q9550 on a brass top TDX, MCP655, HW Black Ice II extreme, DD single bay res. What do you have? Then I'll tell you my other unique loop and you may get some insight into my way of thinking.

Lastly Your link:
I havent seen this problem unless the user messed up installing an aftermarket TOP somehow.

Also if you read the other comments in that link you posted, everyone is going WTF.
I think that many WTF's is enough to lead you to think its just a bad batch.

Generalizing?

Conumdrum said:
There has been a few instances where they just leak. Water gets into the electronics. If the palce you bought it from gives you a hassle, go straight to Gabe at Swiftech. He's a upstanding guy. As long as your up front on what happened. If you omit something... well he has seen it all.

I have 10+ DDC's once again, 2 of which are DDC-2, and ive only had 2 die on me which were DDC-2. But that's because they ran way too hot, and i burnt the pcb out.

I had a DD MAG 1 that would refuse to start every once and a while. Ehh shit happens.
 
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aigomorla

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What do you have? Then I'll tell you my other unique loop and you may get some insight into my way of thinking.

Gulftown, on a classified /w quadfire, on 3 independant loops.
Total of 4 radiators, 2 MCR320(gpu) + PA160(board) + PA120.3(cpu)
Total of 5 DDC's 2-cpu 2-gpu 1-board.

Have you ever seen me recomending someone to build there water loop like this?
IMG_1385.jpg


Anyhow i cant change the opinion of one person, but i think i made my point. Its up to the read to decide if he likes your reason or mine.

I personally dont think its worth it once again. I think the extra should be invested, and a better setup gained.

Also remove the first DDC top i quotted, and replace it with this.

itemlist.jpg


62.20 - 20 dollars = 42.20 so i overshot by $12.20 dollars... however u get a better top / res.

You only need 2 barbs from the parts i listed, the rest come with barbs.
 
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Schmide

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wcsetup.jpg


The standard shot of the TDX

aqua4870s.jpg


The other side of my system. I always had full cover blocks like yours until a couple years ago. I decided I was done with buying a block per graphic card. On a whim I bought a cheap Cooler Master Aquagate Duo Viva on close out for $40. I put the blocks on what I had at the time 2x9600gt with a Black Ice Extreme 120.1. The temps never got past 42c. So I move on in my GC purchases and end up getting 2x4870 for cross fire. I add a cheap 90mm rad I had from back, ironically, pre 2000 and it keeps both 4870s below 45c loaded. I did run the OCCT GPU Shader Complexity 3 and it would get to the mid 60s. I also had to run a small res that crowded up the bottom of my case. So a few weeks ago I got a Swiftech MCR 320 QP-Res for the 4870s and now it barely breaks 40c gaming and stays well under 55c OCCT GPU SC3. Very decent performance from cheap blocks.

BTW if you add the clamps needed for the above setup +$4-6 and you're over by exactly $10-20 I said you would be.
 
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Zap

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Alright guys, zip up your pants, put away the ruler, use some baby wipes and shake hands, m'kay?

:p

Yes, I purchased the $80 2x120mm kit, knowing full well that these date back to 2006 (that's when all the reviews were dated). I consider these kits as a learning experience for me - one that is cheap enough that I won't feel bad about tossing it in the trash if it comes down to that. The thing is that I fully expect it to work if nothing is physically broken. If it can reasonably beat medium-high air cooling (I'm currently using a Scythe Ninja with a 120mm fan on an overclocked quad, hardly über high end) and reasonably beat cheap AIW liquid coolers like the Domino, I'll be happy.

I don't see that it would be difficult to meet my happiness quotient. :awe: At work I do my testing on an old Koolance EXOS² which uses an aluminum 2x120mm setup and it can cool a GTX 295 around 25ºC better than stock cooler and at lower noise levels as well. IMO coming from air cooling that's a huge performance gain. I know I've read about people using the same block/GPU combos having 35-45ºC lower temps than stock cooling using better gear, but I'd be pretty happy splitting the difference between über gear and air cooling.

Who knows... maybe I'll decide that I really don't like the maintenance regardless of temps, and get rid of the kit. Or, maybe I'll become hooked and start upgrading my kit a bit at a time until it becomes an über kit. :D After all, most of us weren't born assembling custom enthusiast rigs - some of us have to start with a store-bought system and go from there.
 

daw123

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wcsetup.jpg


The standard shot of the TDX

aqua4870s.jpg

Schmide, your links are broken. Would it be possible to post working links of your w.c. loop(s)?

I'm curious to see how you did it / what components you used.

Thanks.
 

Schmide

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Schmide, your links are broken. Would it be possible to post working links of your w.c. loop(s)?

I'm curious to see how you did it / what components you used.

Thanks.

Changed the links. I need to add that in my recent change I switched the passive Aquagate block with one from another kit I bought so two pump blocks are actually running in parallel. This may explain some margin of the improvement with the bigger radiator, which was 2-3c better under game load.

Edit: I changed the links, but the reason you couldn't see the links was I was blocking all of Europe, Asia, and Africa due to spammers signing up on the site. I now use Stop Forum Spam so those aren't really necessary anymore. I guess I'll remove them when I get a chance.
 
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daw123

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Thanks. Why are you using much smaller dia. tubing / fittings on your GPU loop?
 

Schmide

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They are 1/4" blocks, that's all I can attach to them. To understand the affects of flow and tubing size.

Cathar's The impact of tubing sizes

The radiator does have 3/8" tubing that splits to the two 1/4" blocks, so the flow through the radiator is double that of the two blocks.
 

aigomorla

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wow talk about flashback from the past.

Schmide i havent built a system like that in probably ages.

As i said, the h2o world has evolved a boat load.
Just look at the fittings one can use now compared to when we first started:
IMG_1391.jpg


This is the res top i showed in the list:
IMG_1378.jpg


Full Card blocks? We moved onto full board blocks even. :)
IMG_1381.jpg


I am also not the typical h2o person. I tend to get stuff customized even like this:
IMG_1337.jpg