Are AMDs cheaper?

dpopiz

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
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heh, I know this is a wonderful noob question, but the fact is I have not paid attention to the CPU scene for at least 2 years.

Right now is it generally a better deal to buy a Core 2 Duo, or some comparable AMD processor? (Taking overclocking into account)
 

secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
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just bought an amd opteron 170, asus a8n32-sli deluxe, and an evga 8800GTS 320MB for around 600 bucks. nice upgrade to my aging p4 2.4C @ 2.95Ghz...

i could have gone core 2 duo, but i didnt want to spend extra for ram. if i had really wanted to reuse my ddr ram, i would have to go with the asrock mobo, which personally, i dont like...
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
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For any heavy use, i.e. gaming, encoding, stuff like that, definitely grab a C2D if you have the money. Especially once overclocked they offer much better bang for the buck than current AMDs. If you are on a tight budget though something like a X2 3600+ Brisbane can't be beat for <$100 IMHO. Really just depends on how much you are willing to spend. You'd be looking at at least $300 for a dual-core Intel and good board, whereas the Brisbane and a good OC'g board can be had for about $150 at NewEgg.
 

KDKPSJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2002
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Since you want to take OC into account, X2 is not even a match to C2D. But yeah, as frostedflakes said, Brisbane 3600+ looks like a good choice too. So what really matters is your budget:

E6300 + P965 mobo = About $ 280
X2 3600+ + NF5 mobo = About $ 180

In addition, if you go for E4300 + P945 mobo, then you might be able to bring the cost down to about $ 250.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Originally posted by: Kur
Comparable, no. Cheaper yes. S939 ftw.

AM2 is generally cheaper now. Supply/demand has made s939 less competitive price-wise, and you can get better chips and RAM for AM2 boards nowadays.

Originally posted by: everydae
Since you want to take OC into account, X2 is not even a match to C2D.

Actually, I wouldn't necessarily say that. If you can get an X2 (Windsor or Brisbane, makes no difference) to the 3.1-3.2ghz range with some good RAM (DDR2-1000 5-5-5-12 or better, I got some RAM that will do DDR2-1132 5-5-5-12 for $160 after mir), you'll find it to be a pretty good match for your everyday 2.7-2.9ghz E4300, E6300, and E6400. The 4 meg L2 Core 2s really dominate the X2s, but you will pay out more money for those. Even after the introduction of the E6320 and E6420, low-end AMD chippies will be half the price or less (the X2-3600+ is already down to $85).

Basically, for the OP's benefit, it's kinda like this:

X2s: The new Brisbane X2s (3600+ especially) are good for about 3.1 ghz with some decent aftermarket cooling, give or take. You can accomplish this with boards in the $80-$100 range depending on what you buy, and there are (or were) some nice combo deals out there that make better deals possible. Pair that with some RAM that will do DDR2-1000 or higher (or thereabouts) and you will actually be competitive with an average budget Core 2 OC for less money. Whether or not this is feasible depends mostly on what kind of deals you can find on DDR2-800 that will OC well. Example of RAM you might want to choose:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=85264

note the mir. It comes out to about $160 after that. This isn't the RAM I have but it should work out okay for you. I think?

E4300/E6300/E6400: You will pay about $100 more for a rig like this if you get the p965 for good overclocking. You will have to break the 2.9 ghz barrier to solidly beat budget Brisbane/Windsor overclocks. On the plus side, if you use the E4300, you may be able to pay less for your RAM than the X2 overclocker, though not by much (might save $50 in that department). Simple DDR2-800 ought to do, and you can usually get something that will OC to that level for $100-$150 without deals, I think. Well for 2 gigs anyway . . .

In addition, if you go for E4300 + P945 mobo, then you might be able to bring the cost down to about $ 250.

Yeah, but he's not gonna break 2.7 ghz with that combo most of the time. At least with the p965 he's got a shot at 3.2-3.5 ghz.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
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well a e4300 is $150. a cheap 945g based board is about $65. a 965p maybe $85

boarsd for am2 are about the same it hink, nf5 maybe $70. something good like an nforce 600 or something is gonna be $95-100

the cheapest am2 the 3600+ is probably $90. thats much slower than an e4300. i'd say an e4300 is probably equivalent to about a 4400+ athlon 64 x2. so i wouldnt say amd is cheaper. plus you get much more o/c capability with the core 2 chips.

when the e4300 goes to $115 in late april it will basically be no contest.


if you go by recent frys deals a e4300 + el cheap ecs pt890 board is $159. a 3800+ am2 with board combo is about $129. i would probably justpay the extra $30. its probably worth it.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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it boils down to what kind of oc u get... right now an amd rig is still cheaper for the same performance at stock from everything i can see...

if u don't get a good oc out of your pieces for some reason, all bets are off...

the trouble with the ddr2 systems is that u need pricier memory to get there, and the mem seems to be the biggest variable in your oc...
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,394
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Originally posted by: hans007
well a e4300 is $150. a cheap 945g based board is about $65. a 965p maybe $85

965p boards for $85? The cheapest I've seen that was worth a damn is the s3 for around ~$120. Granted, you have more options with the E4300's lower multi, but still . . .

boarsd for am2 are about the same it hink, nf5 maybe $70. something good like an nforce 600 or something is gonna be $95-100

The two best boards I've seen, namely the Abit NF-M2 nView and the DFI NF UltraII-M2 run around $90-$100, but they are very good, full-featured boards. You can get cheaper boards but you may have issues getting past 300 mhz FSB with those. Some folks have had decent luck with that Biostar board featured in several Brisbane combo-deals. I've heard it's a bit finicky past 270 mhz FSB.

the cheapest am2 the 3600+ is probably $90. thats much slower than an e4300. i'd say an e4300 is probably equivalent to about a 4400+ athlon 64 x2. so i wouldnt say amd is cheaper. plus you get much more o/c capability with the core 2 chips.

At stock, yes, the X2 is a lot slower. However, several people have had issues getting E4300s past 2.7-2.8 ghz. The Brisbane 3600+ is good for about 3.1 ghz most of the time, provided you get a board that can hit ~330 mhz FSB or higher. With the right RAM, the X2 gains ground on E4300s (and the other 2 mb l2 chips) at high clock speeds.

when the e4300 goes to $115 in late april it will basically be no contest.

I wouldn't say that . . .

E4300: $115
Board: $70 minimum, $120 maximum
RAM: $150
Total: $335 minimum, $385 maximum
OC: ~2.8 ghz on minimum setup (i945p), crapshoot on maximum (3.2-3.5 ghz possible)

X2-3600+ Brisbane: $85 (may drop when the E4300 drops, who knows)
Board: ~$95
RAM: $160 if you shop around, $200 if you don't
Total: $340-$380
OC: ~3.1 ghz which will beat the 2.8 ghz E4300 but lose to a 3.0-3.5 ghz E4300, provided the X2 can be run at its maximum overclock with the 2:3 or 1:2 divider (i.e. needs DDR2-1000 or better, 5-5-5-15 2T)

Basically, you can beat the true budget E4300s that use cheap boards and/or cheap boards from combo deals if you go with the X2, a good OC board, and get the right RAM. Whether or not you actually pay a comparable amount ($340 for X2, $335 for budget E4300) depends on how much you pay for the RAM.

If the E4300 buyer goes the extra mile and gets a better board, he has a shot at beating the X2 + good RAM, but the chip might still peak at around 2.8ghz which means the X2 buyer still has better performance overall for about $40 less. And that's after the price drop. Right now, tack on another $70 or so to any E4300 purchase not including wacky combo deals.

if you go by recent frys deals a e4300 + el cheap ecs pt890 board is $159. a 3800+ am2 with board combo is about $129. i would probably justpay the extra $30. its probably worth it.

That deal on the E4300 is insane. You'd be better off taking the combo for $159, throwing away the board, and buying an S3. Most of the Brisbane combo deals out there are not good for the full 3.1 ghz OC, so they may not really be worth it from a price/performance perspective.

That only counts overclocking, though. At stock, yeah, you can save some bucks on the Brisbanes with a combo deal but your performance will be lower, and you will still need to get some DDR2-800 to make it run right (vs the E4300 which could theoretically be run with DDR2-400 without a huge performance hit). I would not personally look at Brisbanes unless I intended to OC one.

Originally posted by: cubeless

the trouble with the ddr2 systems is that u need pricier memory to get there, and the mem seems to be the biggest variable in your oc...

Nah, DDR2 is getting hella cheap, and E4300s can frequently OC on DDR2-800 or less. It's the X2s and E6300s that need faster RAM to reach their peak.
 

bruceyg

Senior member
Jan 8, 2007
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brisbane 3600+, Tforce550 combo is $150, OCed to 2.9Ghz, I didn't see big difference with my another rig E4300+biostar tforce965pt @3.1Ghz which costed me $130 more.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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If buying from scratch get the E4300 C2D or better. If you have older technology YMMV. I have a S939 board and 1GB of OCZ Plat Rev 2 EL RAM...I was running a Winny 3200+, for $80 at Newegg I picked up a 4000+ along with the SSE3 instructions and overall better CPU architecture. Nothing else had to be changed.

It's all relative though, I look at upgrades though as time/money. My $80 upgrade was a 10 min deal. I could have afforded to drop $500-600 on a new CPU, mem, heatsink/fan, motherboard, etc but I don't think I would have a better 'feeling' system overall at this time and that money spent now would stretch further 6-12months down the line.

I was getting 2520MHz out of my 3200+, I am getting 2830MHz now on the 4000+.

Å
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,394
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Originally posted by: bruceyg
brisbane 3600+, Tforce550 combo is $150, OCed to 2.9Ghz, I didn't see big difference with my another rig E4300+biostar tforce965pt @3.1Ghz which costed me $130 more.

That's a pretty good OC from the Tforce550. I've seen people getting between 2.7-2.8, but mostly that was from NewEgg reviews.
 

customcoms

Senior member
Dec 31, 2004
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If on a tight budget, I would buy this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103046

there's a combo deal with the DFI NF UltraII-M2 for $170.

An E4300 costs $170 ALONE. Paired with a $120 Gigabyte S3 and you are already $120 over the price of the AMD system. the rest of the system is going to cost the same really, its the same ram, same gpu, same hd, same psu, same cas, same etc.

As far as overclocking , ymmv, period. 3.1ghz out of the AMD chip is a little far fetched imo, not many people running AMD chips at 3ghz+ on air 24/7 (most are using water). You are going to need aftermarket cooling to reach over 2.6ghz with the AMD chip (unless you buy an opteron); the C2D will probably go to near 3ghz on stock cooling, so thats $50 saved, bringing the difference closer to $70. Also, getting an AMD board to over 310mhz is going to be luck of the draw. Even my DFI Ultra-D, which is arguably the best AMD overclocking board ever made, starts getting flaky around 315mhz (and these things have been pushed to 500+ mhz on L2) with stock board cooling. Pushing for 330mhz 24/7 stable is going to take some serious know-how and a serious PSU.

No overclocking-Intel.
Overclocking-Intel.

I would spend the extra $70 for the Intel system, even if its the lowest of the low C2D processor. Overclocking an Intel system is going to be easier because chances are you won't need to go near the limits of the chip in order to have a blazing fast system. Really, the graphics card is what is going to be limiting you gaming wise.
 

bruceyg

Senior member
Jan 8, 2007
376
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I am using a cheap HSF arctic alphine64 for my brisbane AMD system, only $10, 2.8Ghz at stock Vcore, 25-26C when Idle, I could let it hit 3Ghz+ if I loose the timing of my RAMs and boost the Vcore, but I prefer stock vcore, it runs cool at 2.8Ghz without any voltage pushed. My E4300 needs vcore boosted to 1.4V to be stable at 3.1Ghz and runs hotter even with more expensive Arctic freezer 7. There is $140 difference between Athlon/Tforce 550 combo and E4300/DS3 combo, but performance differenc is neglectable to me.
CPU-Z
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,394
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You don't really need expensive cooling or a lot of volts to get a Brisbane to 3.1 ghz. I lapped my CPU and used a good aftermarket HSF + add-on fan and it bought me another 100 mhz or so.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: customcoms
I would spend the extra $70 for the Intel system, even if its the lowest of the low C2D processor.

What people fail to realize is that for some people, $70 difference is too much for their budget or needs. Also, I'd argue that at this point the difference (even w/o going for combo deals) is closer to over $100. It's like this with all hardware. Some people buy $110 7600GT video cards and are happy while others can't understand why anyone who calls themselves a "gamer" can't come up with $180 for an x1950Pro, or $260AR for an 8800GTS 320MB. Why get a 200GB HDD when a 320GB HDD is only $30 more? Can do this with almost any hardware. Soon, this "only a little bit more" ends up being a system costing a few hundred over budget. Where do you draw the line?