Are AM4 Chipsets Gimped?

[Puffnstuff]

I'm reading the AT review of the Ryzen cpu's and the chipset slide with specs shows some real limitations that need to be addressed. Their top model X370 cripples 2 sata ports if you run m.2 which is ridiculous. Even my z97 doesn't affect the sata ports when a nvme m.2 drive is used. How are they going to compete with Intel's higher offerings with limitations like these? Who wants to sacrifice sata ports when running a m.2 ssd?

 

[tamz_msc]

Weren't you the one posting in another thread how you use all-M.2 for storage?

 

[EXCellR8]

That chart seems even more preliminary than it states...

 

[UsandThem]

My Gigabyte z170 board disables some of my SATA ports (I believe it is two of them) if I use the top M.2 slot.

If I use the bottom M.2 (which I do), it disables my bottom PCIe x4 slot.

However, each motherboard is different with what happens when using M.2 slots.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Weren't you the one posting in another thread how you use all-M.2 for storage?

Sure was me and think about this. My old z97 chipset keeps all sata ports enabled when you enable the m.2 slot but it does force the 4x pcie slot to 2x and the m.2 slot to 2x which is still twice as fast as sata 6gb.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm looking at the specs over a Newegg and here are the comparisons for these mb's but look at what happens to the expansion slots when you occupy something. This chipset is gimped and needs more pcie lanes to work with. The more I look at it the more disappointed I become with it. On the evga x58 motherboard they had a second chipset to give it additional pcie lanes so nothing had to be turned down. Why can't we have the same consideration here? These are not enthusiast grade at all.

Model# GA-AX370-GAMING 5
Brand GIGABYTE
M.2 1 x M.2 connector (Socket 3, M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 SATA and PCIe x4*/x2 SSD support)
* Actual support may vary by CPU.
1 x U.2 connector
* When the U.2 connector is populated, the M.2 connector becomes unavailable.

Model# Crosshair VI Hero
Brand ASUS
M.2 AMD Ryzen Processors
- 1 x M.2 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 (PCIE 3.0 x4 and SATA modes) storage devices support
AMD 7th Generation A-series / Athlon Processors
- 1 x M.2 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 (SATA mode) storage devices support

Model# X370 Professional Gaming
Brand ASRock
M.2 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket (M2_1), supports type 2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32Gb/s)*
1 x M.2 Socket (M2_2), supports type 2230/2242/2260/2280 M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen2 x4 (20Gb/s)*
* If M2_2 is occupied, PCIE5 slot will be disabled
* Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks
* Supports ASRock U.2 Kit

 

[UsandThem]

I'm looking at the specs over a Newegg and here are the comparisons for these mb's but look at what happens to the expansion slots when you occupy something. This chipset is gimped and needs more pcie lanes to work with. The more I look at it the more disappointed I become with it. On the evga x58 motherboard they had a second chipset to give it additional pcie lanes so nothing had to be turned down. Why can't we have the same consideration here? These are not enthusiast grade at all.

I'm not sure what anybody can say about that will change your mind. The same kind of thing happens with LGA1151 motherboards, and most enthusiasts seem ok or at least willing to deal with it. Sometimes it disables PCIE slots, sometimes the performance is reduced, and other times SATA ports get disabled.

Oh, and since I posted earlier about my Gigabyte z170 losing SATA ports when my top M.2 slot was filled, I had time to look at the manual. I was incorrect when I thought it lost 2 SATA ports. It actually disables 4 of the 6 Intel SATA ports if I use a NVMe drive there.

 

[tamz_msc]

I have a problem with the word you have chosen to describe the platform features. There is a difference between 'gimped' and a design choice that reflects the market AMD is aiming for.

Also, what X58 board from EVGA are you talking about? IIRC NVME wasn't even a standard back then. Are you sure you're not talking about extra PCI-E lanes via a PLX switch?

All Intel boards that are not X99 have some kind of storage limitation when you want to fill up every port.

Z97 is quite different from Z170/Z270 - for example it does not support PCI-E 3.0 M.2.

You seem to have no idea what you're going on about.

 

[w3rd]

AMD, I would like a MSI carbon/ti level mATX board.

1 gpu
1 soundcard
1 M.2 (OS)
1 M.2 (Games/Programs)

What more do you need?

 

[Puffnstuff]

You seem to have no idea what you're going on about.

And you are obviously a fanboy deliberately ignoring the obvous. When I spend my money I buy what I want and this round of mb's doesn't meet my expectations. If you're satisfied with them then buy them. This is why I ended going back to intel after a couple of years of running AMD cpu's making the opteron 170 the last one I've run in my system, although I did use a 1090T in my sons build a few years ago until he went back to intel. I really wanted the ryzen platform to do well but the facts are the facts so I'll just stick wit what I've got. If they can improve the chipset to add the features I'm looking for I might give it a try when its time to build my next pc this fall otherwise its just another reason to stay with Intel.

 

[tamz_msc]

And you are obviously a fanboy deliberately ignoring the obvous. When I spend my money I buy what I want and this round of mb's doesn't meet my expectations. If you're satisfied with them then buy them. This is why I ended going back to intel after a couple of years of running AMD cpu's making the opteron 170 the last one I've run in my system, although I did use a 1090T in my sons build a few years ago until he went back to intel. I really wanted the ryzen platform to do well but the facts are the facts so I'll just stick wit what I've got. If they can improve the chipset to add the features I'm looking for I might give it a try when its time to build my next pc this fall otherwise its just another reason to stay with Intel.

I'm just pointing out that you're factually incorrect. On top of that you didn't really say anything about what X58 board you were referring to.

 

[beginner99]

I'm reading the AT review of the Ryzen cpu's and the chipset slide with specs shows some real limitations that need to be addressed. Their top model X370 cripples 2 sata ports if you run m.2 which is ridiculous. Even my z97 doesn't affect the sata ports when a nvme m.2 drive is used. How are they going to compete with Intel's higher offerings with limitations like these? Who wants to sacrifice sata ports when running a m.2 ssd?

In fact X370 is superior to z270 because Ryzen is a SOC. You get 16xPCIe 3.0 lanes for GPU, 4xPCIe 3.0 lanes for M.2 SSD and 4xpcie 3.0 lanes to the chipset which then provides SATA, USB and PCIe 2.0 ports.

In Z270, the chipset is also connected to the CPU with PCIex4 link and that link shares everything that comes from the chipset, every m.2 drive, SATA drive or USB device. So in IO heavy workloads to different devices the M.2 on Ryzen doesn't have to share any traffic with other devices.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm just pointing out that you're factually incorrect. On top of that you didn't really say anything about what X58 board you were referring to.

EVGA classified fatality has extra chipset to maintain all pcie lanes for full bandwidth. Even the X99 chipset maintains 40 lanes which is what X370 should be compared to since they are trying to be an enthusiast grade product.

 

[tamz_msc]

EVGA classified fatality has extra chipset to maintain all pcie lanes for full bandwidth. Even the X99 chipset maintains 40 lanes which is what X370 should be compared to since they are trying to be an enthusiast grade product.

Haha I knew you were going to mention the EVGA Classified. Well guess what - that uses a NVIDIA NF200 chip for all the extra PCIe lanes. How's NVIDIA doing in the chipset business today, if may I ask? Custom chips add to costs, and it does not even matter any more because NVIDIA doesn't even support tri and quad SLI. PCI-E 3.0 has enough bandwidth to demux into other I/O for most users in the consumer market.

Why do you insist on comparing a 450$ motherboard when the maximum cost of AM4 boards today is 250$, and is likely to remain that way? 'Enthusiast' doesn't mean you throw whatever money you can for bragging rights without considering what you are actually going to use it for, does it?

 

[Rifter]

1151 does the same thing, alot of them worse you loose 4 sata slots not 2. and i think alot of people would consider the 7700k a enthusiast cpu and they all seem to be doing just fine on their "gimped" 1151 boards. On either platform, AM4 or 1151 you will need to buy a sata expansion card to get more sata ports if you decide they are needed for your situation.

 

[imported_jjj]

It's less gimped than others. Certain extra features are or-or but you get m.2 , plenty of SATA and USB by default.
Your examples give you a second M.2 or an U2 and to get that there are sacrifices.

 

[bbhaag]

I think my Asrock z170 board gimps my sata ports when a m.2 drive is connected. I'm not 100% sure though. here is what the Asrock page says.

- 6 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s Connectors, support RAID (RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 10, Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 14 and Intel® Smart Response Technology), NCQ, AHCI and Hot Plug*
- 1 x Ultra M.2 Socket, supports M Key type 2242/2260/2280 M.2 SATA3 6.0 Gb/s module and M.2 PCI Express module up to Gen3 x4 (32 Gb/s)**

* If M2_1 is occupied by a SATA-type M.2 device, SATA3_0 and SATA3_1 will be disabled.

**Supports ASRock U.2 Kit
Supports NVMe SSD as boot disks

Here's a link to the board I own. http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z170M Extreme4/?cat=Specifications. If I read it right I loose ports 0 and 1.

 

[Rubycon]

Does anyone have PCI-E m.2 benchmarks (960 Pro 1/2TB) on this platform?
Memory performance outside of L3 looks considerably lower than the competition.
Especially X99E. (35GB/S vs. 75GB/S)

 

[R0H1T]

Does anyone have PCI-E m.2 benchmarks (960 Pro 1/2TB) on this platform?
Memory performance outside of L3 looks considerably lower than the competition.
Especially X99E. (35GB/S vs. 75GB/S)

Dual vs quad channel, if you're comparing like for like (vs Kaby Lake) it actually does better ~

 

[Rubycon]

Of course it was apples to oranges. I remember how much lower the memory throughput was with Skylake and that was for the same reason.
The rate is not the issue unfortunately it's the latency.
Look at the AIDA numbers.

 

[R0H1T]

Of course it was apples to oranges. I remember how much lower the memory throughput was with Skylake and that was for the same reason.
The rate is not the issue unfortunately it's the latency.
Look at the AIDA numbers.

The AIDA64 results are unsurprisingly inaccurate ~ AMD hadn't sent us a Ryzen before launch. As soon as we can get one, we will fix the L2+L3 benchmarks
https://forums.aida64.com/topic/3768-aida64-compatibility-with-amd-ryzen-processors
https://forums.aida64.com/topic/3768-aida64-compatibility-with-amd-ryzen-processors

 

[ReignQuake]

This is what my MSI Intel board says:

• 5 x PCIe 3.0 x16 slots (PCI_E1~PCI_E4 & PCI_E6*), support up to 4-way mode.
- 1-way mode: x16/x0/x0/x0/x0
- 2-way mode: x16/x0/x0/x16/x0**, x16/x0/x0/x8/x0***
ƒ- 3-way mode: x16/x0/x0/x16/x8** x8/x8/x0/x8/x0***
ƒ- 4-way mode: x8/x8/x0/x16/x8**, x8/x8/x0/x8/x4***
• 1x PCIe 2.0 x1 slot (PCI_E5)

* PCI_E6 slot, U.2 port and M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 share the same bandwidth. Please refer to page 33 for PCIe bandwidth tables.
** For the CPU that supports 40 PCIe lanes
*** For the CPU that supports 28 PCIe lanes

 

[PingSpike]

I don't think they're anymore "gimped" than 1151. If you want a lot of lanes you have to pay the HEDT price, nothing has changed there.

 

[Puffnstuff]

* PCI_E6 slot, U.2 port and M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 share the same bandwidth.

Yes and if you run U2 you lose the use of m.2

 

[William Gaatjes]

I do not know about the chipsets, but i sure find the motherboards over pimped with all those colors and plastic. I hope it will not take long before normal motherboards arrive.