Are all new home builders this shifty?

[tnitsuj]

My parents and I don't get along real well, but I got roped into looking after the building of thier new house while they are visiting family out of the country for a few months.

I thought this would be a simple job, just go over there and see how the construction is going, take some digital pictures and mail them to the folks right??

Wrong,

I went over yesterday and found the following problems.

1. The house has a huge three story living room/great room with two story windows and a ceiling with a kind of square recessed geometric pattern on it. That cieling was an extra $8600 dollars, and my folks opted not to go an additional option which would have put even ore fancy crown molding in the squares of the ceiling. However, the builders screwed up and finished about half the ceiling with the crown molding and then stopped. I talked to the "custom home customer service rep" and he basically said. Well...since we already put half of it on, why don't you just pay the extra $6000 and let us finish it. The fvcker refused to either have them rip the molding down or finish the ceiling. WTF?? Are they just trying to jack us up for more options?

2. The countertops upstairs in the laundry room and master bedroom suite are not the granite that was ordered with the house but some cheap crap. The rep was sandbagging me on that saying that this wasn't specified on the contract which is BS. all materials like that were specified.

3. This house has three acres of land, with the backyard needing some serious grading. I was walking around in the back, and noticed what looked like a paint can sticking out of the ground. Turns out they are just using fill from the construction site, including paint cans, drywall, bits of concrete, etc. and dumping it in the back yard??? WTF? That has to be against about a dozen codes.

4. About a half dozen windows that are on the plans and were in the model are not in the house. The rep had to "check on that"

5. The appliances in the kitchen which haven't been installed yet are Whirpool instead of the specified commercial grade Sub Zero stuff.

6. This is the biggest problem. No sprinkler system. The contract on the house was signed one month after a new law took effect in this county requiring residential sprinklers in all new construction. However, there are no damn sprinklers in this house which will be a serious problem as that will require ripping out a lot of stuff to install.

You think if you are paying over a million dollars for a house they wouldn't try and nickle and dime you and at least try and do something resembling a quality job.

I am calling the lawyer today, and let her deal with these aholes.

 

[BDawg]

From what I've experienced, home builders try to cut corners as much as possible.

 

[kranky]

Do yourself a favor and get a professional to supervise the construction. Getting the lawyer involved is a start, but will probably cause a lot of tension for the rest of the project.

Builders are experts at playing these kinds of games, and you will not be able to beat them. They live in this world every day. The customers don't have the expertise, usually can't afford to stand there all day long and watch, and if you are dissatisfied - what options do you have? Not use them again? Like they would care.

The builder can make an extra $100K on that million-dollar home by cutting corners. How can you be expected to know enough to see if that's happening? The appliances are one thing - that's obvious. Who knows what else is going on that you can't see?

If I was building a home like that, I would surely have a professional overseeing the operation who works for me and not the contractor.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: kranky
Do yourself a favor and get a professional to supervise the construction....

This sounds like good advice, especially considering the size of the investment.

 

[Codewiz]

You get what you pay for. My fiancee's father is a general contractor. He doesn't get NEARLY as much work as a lot of other builders. He actually quotes a price that makes sense. He doesn't cut corners. He does quality work. His only business is pretty much word of mouth. People are normally always happy with his work because he doesn't pull BS like that.

Most people when they are picking a builder, they just pick the cheapest. When that is done, you see what can happen. So many builders just throw in an insanely low bid. They cut corners everywhere they can. Or try to say something happened and it increased the price.

 

[Ornery]

"...get a professional to supervise the construction."

WTF? There's got to be a general contractor already handling this. WTF is he being paid for?

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...get a professional to supervise the construction."

WTF? There's got to be a general contractor already handling this. WTF is he being paid for?

I think he is being paid to cut corners. I would have been surprised of half the workers I saw there yesterday were legal.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...get a professional to supervise the construction."

WTF? There's got to be a general contractor already handling this. WTF is he being paid for?

To make sure the workers don't waste too many nails.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...get a professional to supervise the construction."

WTF? There's got to be a general contractor already handling this. WTF is he being paid for?

Yeah, but that doesen't mean much if he's working for the company building the house.

This sh!t would piss me off to no end. Completely unacceptable, especially if it is clearly in the contract.

Sue the fsckers.

 

[TMPadmin]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar

Originally posted by: kranky
Do yourself a favor and get a professional to supervise the construction....

This sounds like good advice, especially considering the size of the investment.

YES! You need someone there EVERY FRIGGIN' DAY to over see the operation. I built with a less than desirable builder and I was there personally everyday at lunch and at 4:30 after work. I busted the balls of the sub-contractors, main office, Project Supervisor, his boss, his boss! When all was said and done, I got a far better built house, with many upgrades that I "didn't pay for". They tried at ever stage to cut corners, some were acceptable some were not. I was forced to bring in the town building inspector and a few other officials several times during the building process. Once I setup a meeting with the town inspector, the project supervisor, his boss his partner and myself to go over all the issues I had before the drywall went up.

You may not get along with your parent but do this favor for them, I would do it for a stranger. Don't let them get screwed. I would demand everything stop until your issues are fixed to this point. Builders had delays. Tell them you will walk away. We almost walked on our $20 deposit twice. It gives them a kick.

 

[Goosemaster]

SH!t like this gives my dad, a contractor for over 20 years, a bad name.


Just as someone else describesd a great contractor, my dad is the same if not simply awesome.


Unfortunately word of mouth is being trampled over by low bidding fvks who keep his jobs to a minimum.

On MANY OCASSIONS, customers that went with his underbidding competition call him to clean up the mess.

If anyone needs work donw, pleas contact me. My dad used to work for a VERY reputable contracting firm until ther business slowed, and he was in everone's opinion, one of the best period.


He will NEVer cut corners, even if he has to take a lot of small jobs to make ends meat...quality all the way.


People like that thosementioned my the OP make my blood boil:|

 

[StageLeft]

A million bucks? Dayum.

Turns out they are just using fill from the construction site, including paint cans, drywall, bits of concrete, etc. and dumping it in the back yard??? WTF? That has to be against about a dozen codes.

Holy sh*t!

Anyway, yes I think a lot are bad. Surely not all.

My boss at work's sister bought a new $200k house around a year ago. They found, 5 months in, after looking in the crawl space, that one of the sinks (bath or a sink or something) _was draining directly into the freaking crawl space under the house_. They had just "forgotten" to plumb that. Talk about a bloody nightmare.

Having read this I'd presume to think that the best idea is to either buy a pre-made house, or pay a third party general supervisor - unrelated to the actual contractor - to oversee construction.

We bought ours pre-built (new construction), and had an inspector check for general things before signing off on the house.

The only problem we had was that we closed with a promise from the builder that they'd put some bushes in the front yard. It took me 3 phone calls and finally a threatening letter to get them to do it. They knew they had to but just kept putting it off. It cost them about $50 (4 tiny bushes), but I wasn't going to let it go. It was clear that they simply didn't give a crap once they received the money, and I said as much in the letter.

Make sure that your parents don't close on the house without everything being done, promises don't count for sh*t

GoosemasterIf your dad was in AL I would call him if I needed something done

 

[Ornery]

Oh, and what about an 'architect' or 'designer'? Is one of them involved in this? Aren't they supposed to make sure all their wondrous plans are followed through?

Make a tick-list of every issue that needs addressed, and give it to the architect, general contractor, and whoever else is supervising this abortion. Tell them to get it taken care of NOW! Tell them somebody will be going without a check until it is.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
A million bucks? Dayum.

Turns out they are just using fill from the construction site, including paint cans, drywall, bits of concrete, etc. and dumping it in the back yard??? WTF? That has to be against about a dozen codes.

Holy sh*t!

Anyway, yes I think a lot are bad. Surely not all.

I concur.

If I found out this was happening on my property, I would quite simply call the police or the EPA or someone.

Make someone come out and clean it up before that sh!t starts seeping into the ground. If it costs money to have it cleaned, give them the bill.

 

[Papagayo]

Yes,
Most builders are very shifty.

We've had a horrible experience getting out house built.. I will never build a house again..

 

[woowoo]

Wait till you see what they do to the furnace and AC.......

 

[TMPadmin]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
SH!t like this gives my dad, a contractor for over 20 years, a bad name.


Just as someone else describesd a great contractor, my dad is the same if not simply awesome.


Unfortunately word of mouth is being trampled over by low bidding fvks who keep his jobs to a minimum.

On MANY OCASSIONS, customers that went with his underbidding competition call him to clean up the mess.

If anyone needs work donw, pleas contact me. My dad used to work for a VERY reputable contracting firm until ther business slowed, and he was in everone's opinion, one of the best period.


He will NEVer cut corners, even if he has to take a lot of small jobs to make ends meat...quality all the way.


People like that thosementioned my the OP make my blood boil:|

Dying breed. People who actually have pride in their work. Today it's just get it done quickly and cheaply. You don't normally see this type of contractor anymore. I looked at 5 different builders before I decided on the one I picked. Several factors went into my decision but I knew with any builder I picked I would have to watch over their shoulder to make sure they do the job correctly. Here's the thing, I know only basics of building a house but I seem to know more than most contractors these days.

Wait till you see what they do to the furnace and AC.......

Why, what happened with yours? Mine turned out okay except I think they put a used water heater in. I had rust deposits after the first month (first time I looked inside). There was almost no resistance in asking them to change it out (makes me think they knew).

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: BDawg
From what I've experienced, home builders try to cut corners as much as possible.

Yep, If I didn't go in the attic and shore up some major cutting of corners my roof would've imploded into the house by now.

 

[amdskip]

I would be firing that builder right now. You need to find a real contractor, not some shady one.

 

[rh71]

Is this an asian-run company ? To justify this question: from my experience... they cut a lot of corners. It's just not worth it for me anymore. You want something important done (like a whole house)... I wouldn't leave it up to them. They give you a good price (bargaining) but I don't think I'd live in a "bargain" home.

As an example... I ordered furniture from Levitz and also some asian place. The guys from Levitz took time and care to place the sofas exactly where we wanted and even got rid of the boxes/garbage. The asian guys came in with our bed and assembled it like they had 100 other runs that day. The threw it together (even missing a screw in one of the cabinet handles) and left... with all the garbage and boxes in the bedroom. Afterward, it looked like a tornado had come through. What kind of service is that ? I paid much less for the sofas that Levitz delivered too.

 

[K1052]

In my experience a large percentage of contractors, residential and commercial, are rather shady.

My mom built a house last year and it was a huge pain getting everything right. It was nowhere near code when the inspector first looked at it.
Even when spending millions on a large commercial projects similar crap happens, though it can be even more difficult getting those contractors to fix or pay for what they have done. Lawsuits against these contractors are a normal part of business.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: amdskip
I would be firing that builder right now. You need to find a real contractor, not some shady one.

Unfortunately, it is rarely that simple.

 

[MrDudeMan]

edit: let me clarify that i dont have a problem with all builders/contractors or architects/designers. its just that the majority are shady bastards and always try to rip people off.

First of all, you absolutely can not wait any longer to get the current problems fixed. You can NOT wait another minute to address all of these issues and get them resolved. Believe me when I tell you that they will finish the house with all of their mistakes still in place and you will end up being forced to pay for them. TRUST ME.

If you didnt already know, i work at a civil engineering firm, and working with shady contractors is normal, even expected. Most places, it is required to hire a superintendent or inspector to be at the jobsite frequently to make sure the framing and floor systems are installed correctly. Little things like the nail pattern can cause a ceiling joist to fail 10 years from now, and if you dont know what you are looking for, you will never see it. Instead of using 16D nails (big mother fvckers), they will use 12's. 12s cant hold the load that 16s can, and they cost less. 12's will work for a while, but overtime with temperature contraction and expansion, they will either pull out, rust, or fail.

If they cut this many corners on the framing and finish, i am scared to know what they did or didnt do to the foundation. Find out whether or not the foundation is post-tension or rebar. If it is post-tension, you should get a copy of the partial and final stressings and take them to a third part engineer for review. This may sound extreme to you, but everything you are complaining about will be the least of your worries in 6 months when the drywall is falling off of the ceiling and none of the doors will close. This is seriously a much bigger issue than you think. Post-tensioned foundations are supposed to be stressed twice, and sometimes they just plain forget to do it, or only do it the first time. Rebar foundations should have 2 layers of steel, at the top and bottom of the slab, and 2 layers of steel in the beams as well. I have seen builders put the steel in to pass inspection and then TAKE IT OUT to pour the slab. Straight concrete will crack like a mother fvcker with no stressed cables or matts of rebar. the house will literally fall apart (i have seen this first hand).

Next, you need to THOROUGHLY inspect the roof system. Perlin braces are installed wrong, intentionally or not, more than 70% of the time. You will develop serious sag in the roof and ceilings because of this. If you want more information, i will post it, but for now just go make sure every OTHER ceiling joist is supporting the roof.

Architects/Designers typically do not accompany you on the jobsite unless they go out of their way. Also, do yourself a favor and never, i repeat NEVER, use a designer.

Designer (n.) - architect without a license, typically mislabels drawings and misdimensions window and door placement. they like to get fake seals that resemble a real architects official, city approved seal, and even color coordinate it to match it exactly. See crook, POS, and poor quality of work for more details.


As far as illegal workers go...you just need to get used to that. they work harder than most of us probably do and they arent the cause of the problem anyway. it is almost impossible to have a building crew without illegal workers. argue all you want, but its the truth.


We get builders who come in and ask us to design less stringently (sp?) to save them money. we are like "fvck you" and we call their customer to let them know what they asked us to do. most of the time, we get a "wow, thanks for telling us" and the builder calls the next day saying they are going to sue. we simply say "sue us. we have the best lawyers in texas, and written consent from you and your superintendent that you wanted us to design lower than the minimum stated by the city." conversation ends, never hear from the builder again...

Sprinklers - if you dont have sprinklers, and you live in an area with active soil, you are REALLY going to regret not making them fix that. sprinklers need to be a certain distance from a foundation to keep the moisture content of the soil in spec. Dried out soil will cause the foundation to sag, perform terribly, and usually ends up in stair step cracks in the brick or sometimes worse.


want my advice? get an engineer to come look at it. after that, get another one to come look at it. get written reports of the problems and that you want it fixed. most engineers charge 200-300 a trip and for a letter, but it is well worth the time in the long run. if an engineer says this is broken and signs his name to it, the builder is FVCKED hardcore if it doesnt get fixed. believe me, they can lose their business. many times we have been served by a builder for calling them out on their mistakes, and they always get owned. sounds extreme, i know, but if you really care for this house, this is all stuff you need to consider.

 

[Kelemvor]

Check with your local Home Builders Association and let them know what's going on. All builders belong to an association and they have to follow certain rules and such.

Did your parents do any research before choosing this person to build the house or just pick them at random? I'd definiteily check with the HBA and let them know what's going on.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Yeah, contractors like this give responsible contractors like us a bad name....and cost us lots of work because of their low-ball bid tactics. Drives me crazy!