Arctic Warming - Is The Science Really Settled?

[xBiffx]

I keep on waiting for evidence to disprove man made global warming, and despite all the efforts by those that don't believe they can't provide that evidence.

Cute. But the onus is on those to who think man is the cause to prove it. You are asking to prove a negative which isn't possible.

 

[doubledeluxe]

I think it was the last episode of Cosmos that did a good job explaining the problem.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I cringe every time anyone thinks something like this is an excuse to say "fuck you" to the environment.

If that's your take from what I said, then you're an idiot.

 

[Paul98]

Cute. But the onus is on those to who think man is the cause to prove it. You are asking to prove a negative which isn't possible.

These words don't say what you think they do. It's already proven, it's up to you to disprove the science that backs it.

 

[xBiffx]

These words don't say what you think they do. It's already proven, it's up to you to disprove the science that backs it.

Nothing has been proven. How can you even claim that given the evidence (or lack of) to date?

 

[glenn1]

Oh, this thread again. Here's to another few decades of climate change folks having this happen to them politically:

 

[K1052]

The news is even worse than you told us so your whole argument is void.

 

[sm625]

Is this article seriously making the claim that the dark open ocean water traps more heat than the white covered ice? lol. Thank you captain obvious. Next up: The earth is warmer near the equator.

 

[xBiffx]

Is this article seriously making the claim that the dark open ocean water traps more heat than the white covered ice? lol. Thank you captain obvious. Next up: The earth is warmer near the equator.

No, its talking about far infrared emissions from those specifically.

 

[Paul98]

Nothing has been proven. How can you even claim that given the evidence (or lack of) to date?

Been there done that, it's up to you to attempt to understand now.

 

[xBiffx]

Been there done that, it's up to you to attempt to understand now.

Nope, sorry, you've done nothing but babble on. I can't do the impossible which is what you are asking. Not even going to try.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Is this article seriously making the claim that the dark open ocean water traps more heat than the white covered ice? lol. Thank you captain obvious. Next up: The earth is warmer near the equator.

I can't believe you posted this. Did you not read the article or just completely failed to understand it?

 

[ralfy]

What should be considered isn't whether or not the science is settled based on one study or another, but what many studies reveal about the phenomenon. Given that point, the NAS and even a study funded by skeptics have concluded on the matter.

More important is the issue of multiple crisis in relation to global warming, including peak oil, environmental damage, and financial crises.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Ok, how about we list some things I think we can all agree are settled about warming?

1. Is there warming taking place? -yes
2. Are humans to some degree a contributing factor to said warming? -yes
3. Would too much of said warming have bad effects for humans? -yes
4. Should humans reduce carbon emissions in an attempt to decrease the warming? -yes
4a. Will reducing carbon have a positive effect? -maybe
4b. Will reducing carbon have a negative effect? -highly unlikely
4c. Will reducing carbon have no effect? -possibly
5. Is the environment good or bad? -good
6. Should we shit where we eat? -not recommended

Anyone disagree?

So how does cattle passing gas contribute to this.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

These words don't say what you think they do. It's already proven, it's up to you to disprove the science that backs it.

That's funny......

Sort of like the Is there a God thread.......
Since you say there is a God.....it is up to you to prove there is a God, why? Because I cannot prove a negative. Why? Because I say there is no God and since you cannot prove there is a God it is uyp to you prove their is a God...lolol

 

[Paul98]

That's funny......

Sort of like the Is there a God thread.......
Since you say there is a God.....it is up to you to prove there is a God, why? Because I cannot prove a negative. Why? Because I say there is no God and since you cannot prove there is a God it is uyp to you prove their is a God...lolol

The claim that man made global warming exists has evidence to support those claims. If you don't think that man made global warming exists, you have to disprove the evidence that backs it.

 

[Spungo]

Here's some research which indicates that far infrared may be a major reason why we're seeing so much warming in the arctic. I cringe every time I hear someone say "The Science Is Settled".

http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2014/11/03/far-infrared-arctic/

Someone had to do a study to learn that ice reflects sunlight? Really?
They could have saved a bunch of time if they just asked someone.

Ha that's hilarious, the forum blocks urls to blogspot

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Someone had to do a study to learn that ice reflects sunlight? Really?
They could have saved a bunch of time if they just asked someone.

Ha that's hilarious, the forum blocks urls to blogspot

Well, it looks like this is coming down to two possibilities...either the scientists at Berkeley Lab are complete idiots, or perhaps, you are. Tough call.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well, it looks like this is coming down to two possibilities...either the scientists at Berkeley Lab are complete idiots, or perhaps, you are. Tough call.

Hehe, as a resident of California I have heard, can't say positively, that in order to get into Berkeley you have to be pretty smart.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Hehe, as a resident of California I have heard, can't say positively, that in order to get into Berkeley you have to be pretty smart.

It looks like they must have let a few slackers in. But seriously, I don't get any pleasure from giving these guys a hard time...I just can't imagine where they could possibly be coming from. Didn't you go to Berkeley for a while?

 

[dphantom]

Sheesh I wish people would read the article posted before making comments. It just might lessen the chance of those people looking like the idiot they are.

 

[lopri]

A related news - Sexy Models in Beijing Fashion Show.

http://www.businessinsider.com/smog-masks-at-beijing-fashion-show-2014-10

China's smog has seeped into high culture.

Several fashionable gas masks made the runway at China Fashion Week in Beijing.

The Chinese capital is currently at an orange air-pollution alert, which is the second-highest warning in the city’s color-coded alert system. Authorities monitor PM2.5 particulate matter, or tiny particles in the air that are the most hazardous to health.

"Under orange-alert conditions, workers are ordered to stop construction, while factories must reduce emissions by at least 30%. Fireworks and outdoor barbecuing are also banned," The Wall Street Journal explained recently. "Children and the elderly are advised to stay indoors, and residents are encouraged to use public transportation instead of cars. Schools are urged to reduce outdoor activities."

Depressing.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Is it inversion that causes that crazy smog in China?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Far-infrared surface emissivity and climate

Abstract

Presently, there are no global measurement constraints on the surface emissivity at wavelengths longer than 15 μm, even though this surface property in this far-IR region has a direct impact on the outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) and infrared cooling rates where the column precipitable water vapor (PWV) is less than 1 mm. Such dry conditions are common for high-altitude and high-latitude locations, with the potential for modeled climate to be impacted by uncertain surface characteristics. This paper explores the sensitivity of instantaneous OLR and cooling rates to changes in far-IR surface emissivity and how this unconstrained property impacts climate model projections. At high latitudes and altitudes, a 0.05 change in emissivity due to mineralogy and snow grain size can cause a 1.8–2.0 W m−2 difference in the instantaneous clear-sky OLR. A variety of radiative transfer techniques have been used to model the far-IR spectral emissivities of surface types defined by the International Geosphere-Biosphere Program. Incorporating these far-IR surface emissivities into the Representative Concentration Pathway (RCP) 8.5 scenario of the Community Earth System Model leads to discernible changes in the spatial patterns of surface temperature, OLR, and frozen surface extent. The model results differ at high latitudes by as much as 2°K, 10 W m−2, and 15%, respectively, after only 25 y of integration. Additionally, the calculated difference in far-IR emissivity between ocean and sea ice of between 0.1 and 0.2, suggests the potential for a far-IR positive feedback for polar climate change.

Here's the paper for anyone who may be interested.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/10/29/1413640111.full.pdf+html

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

What's not clear from that article is whether it's a cause, an effect, or part of a feedback loop.

Looks like it's part of the feedback loop....this is not good.