Archiving to CD disk

[7window]

You guys store your pics and important data to a CD disk? Is it reliable

 

[RebateMonger]

Burned CD/DVD disks are probably the least reliable form of backup.

How much data do you have to back up? How much data do you generate per year?

 

[7window]

Burned CD/DVD disks are probably the least reliable form of backup.

How much data do you have to back up? How much data do you generate per year?

About 5-10 gig. Recommend any other reliable storage

 

[RebateMonger]

I suggest two rules:
1) Keep at least two independent copies of anything important. Using two different types of media would be good.
2) Test the copies yearly. If restores fail, then make another copy from the good media.

Three relatively reliable forms of storage:
1) External hard drive. $50 to $100
2) USB flash drive. $10 to $20
3) Online storage. $55 per year.

None of these methods are perfect, which is why I'd choose two of them, making two copies of everything.

 

[7window]

I suggest two rules:
1) Keep at least two independent copies of anything important. Using two different types of media would be good.
2) Test the copies yearly. If restores fail, then make another copy from the good media.

Three relatively reliable forms of storage:
1) External hard drive. $50 to $100
2) USB flash drive. $10 to $20
3) Online storage. $55 per year.

None of these methods are perfect, which is why I'd choose two of them, making two copies of everything.

wow a flash drive?? I learned something new today. thanks

 

[rasczak]

wow a flash drive?? I learned something new today. thanks

yea, but remember that they are also very easy to lose.

 

[JimKiler]

I trust CD and DVD more than I trust a Hard Drive which is mechanical. I would be surprised if a HDD even not in use would last 10 years whereas I think CD/DVD would last longer assuming it does not get disc rot. Granted both are not perfect for archival storage but I will move everything to Flash or whatever the future technology is and always have two copies so lifespan should not be an issue.

I use both, DVD and NAS since a NAS does not work in a safe as nicely as discs.

 

[razel]

wow a flash drive?? I learned something new today. thanks

I agree with flash drives. On sale you can get $1.50-$2 per GIG. So 8 GIGs will cost you $12-$16. Buy two. Mark one Jan-May, other one June-Dec. Full backups twice a year for each period for things that matter to you most. Keep in a safe place. Continue to live with a piece of mind.

 

[alexruiz]

Burned CD/DVD disks are probably the least reliable form of backup.

How much data do you have to back up? How much data do you generate per year?

I completely disagree.

If you use good media and have a decent burner with firmware up to date, archiving to DVD is probably the safest method short of specialized tape.

I have DVD backups from 5 years ago, burned to Maxell MXL-RG02 (4x DVD-R, made in Japan by Maxell) that read as good as they did when burned. Even more impressive, I burned them with one of the lowest regarded burner of all time (BTC 1008IM, 8X, that while it was an amazing reader, it was very very picky as writer)

A good burner with good reliable media will produce backups that will last 5-6 years easily. In that timeframe you will just transfer the data to the next medium available (blue-ray or blue ray successor)

Furthermore, with how cheap media is and how cheap burners are, make monthly backups
8 gigs is only 2 DVDs. Wait for the next officemax sale and grab a 100 pack of verbatim DVDs for $20.

Check club cdfreaks for more details. As media Verbatim DVD-R 16x (MCC 03RG20) or DVD+R 16x (MCC004) are the safest bets at great prices. Burn quality is not only exceptional, longevity is great, and that is what matters the most. Taiyo yuden has highly regarded media (overhyped in my opinion) but are not cheap. The regular brands usually go with Prodisc or CMC Mag. Both of them are consistent, but some burners don't like it. CMC MAG is very very stable for longevity.

Grab a Samsung, Pioneer or sony-Nec-optiarc DVD burner, burn at 8x, 12x 0r 16x and you should be safe.



Alex

 

[alexruiz]

I suggest two rules:
1) Keep at least two independent copies of anything important. Using two different types of media would be good.
2) Test the copies yearly. If restores fail, then make another copy from the good media.

Thumbs up. Totally agree in that one.

I suggest two rules:
Three relatively reliable forms of storage:
1) External hard drive. $50 to $100
2) USB flash drive. $10 to $20
3) Online storage. $55 per year.

The external hard drive is the most obvious one, and should be mandatory. Totally agree.

I however disagree disagree with flash drive, as they are meant as temporary portable storage and not archival. Online might be OK, but I cannot imagine the pain of uploading 20 GB of pictures data at 300 KB/sec...

I would say have an external hard drive as working live copy. Make DVDs monthly or bimonthly and keep those in a separate place. I have an external hard drive for backup, and make 2 sets of DVDs monthly, even using different media IDs. I keep one set off site


Alex

 

[tcsenter]

I trust CD and DVD more than I trust a Hard Drive which is mechanical.

Then you don't know much about either technology. The dye layer in CD/DVD deteriorates - period. Manufacturer 'testing' is as much marketing, with all assumptions made to be most favorable to the product. What little independent objective testing has been done on the longevity and stability of CD/DVD media has not been nearly as favorable as the "industry" or manufacturer testing.

When the dye (or reflective) layer deteriorates, the data is gone. CD/DVD media is not remotely as physically robust or protective as the housing of a hard drive. Hard drives can withstand orders of magnitude higher shock.

With hard drives, there is at least a very high probability of recovering data from a drive with failed electronics or internal mechanical components. Its going to cost a few to several hundred bucks to pay a professional recovery service like OnTrack, but it can almost always be recovered unless its been subjected to the Curie point of the magnetic recording layer (which is two or three times higher than any CD/DVD media formulation can withstand).

 

[Bazooka Boy]

You guys store your pics and important data to a CD disk? Is it reliable

Well, yeah. I burn some files to DVD or CD to free up some hard drive space.
Then I transfer it to a new external HDD once I get one.

 

[Gillbot]

I trust CD and DVD more than I trust a Hard Drive which is mechanical. I would be surprised if a HDD even not in use would last 10 years whereas I think CD/DVD would last longer assuming it does not get disc rot. Granted both are not perfect for archival storage but I will move everything to Flash or whatever the future technology is and always have two copies so lifespan should not be an issue.

I use both, DVD and NAS since a NAS does not work in a safe as nicely as discs.

I have old 100MB hard drives that still work, yet I have literally hundreds of less than one year old CD's the I've burnt which are no longer readable. I trust a HDD WAY MORE than a burnt CD/DVD.

 

[Blain]

Here are some fun articles on long term storage...

Gizmodo: Giz explains "How Data Dies (and How It Can Be Saved)"

ZDNet: Robin Harris "Long-term personal data storage"

 

[JimKiler]

Then you don't know much about either technology. The dye layer in CD/DVD deteriorates - period. Manufacturer 'testing' is as much marketing, with all assumptions made to be most favorable to the product. What little independent objective testing has been done on the longevity and stability of CD/DVD media has not been nearly as favorable as the "industry" or manufacturer testing.

When the dye (or reflective) layer deteriorates, the data is gone. CD/DVD media is not remotely as physically robust or protective as the housing of a hard drive. Hard drives can withstand orders of magnitude higher shock.

With hard drives, there is at least a very high probability of recovering data from a drive with failed electronics or internal mechanical components. Its going to cost a few to several hundred bucks to pay a professional recovery service like OnTrack, but it can almost always be recovered unless its been subjected to the Curie point of the magnetic recording layer (which is two or three times higher than any CD/DVD media formulation can withstand).

I still do not trust hard drives to last 10 years after reading google's study showing failure rates of 8% or more after the first year of operation for a hard drive. Plus my own experience with failed hard drives versus unreadable discs.

I think there is a difference if you buy a quality HDD versus cheaper quality and the same for discs. I think CD's are more stable than DVD's and even the original CD-R's rated for 2-8x are a lot more forgiving to scratches than all the 24-48x media out there these days.

I think the take away is to not trust any media for too long and as alexruiz suggested keep re archiving when new formats come out.

 

[Ken90630]

Wow -- some strange replies in this thread.

First of all, anybody who says CD/DVD storage is inherently "unreliable" or that it degrades rapidly doesn't know what they're talking about. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE QUALITY OF THE MEDIA AND THE QUALITY OF THE BURN. High quality discs with high quality dye, burned successfully on a good burner, should last at least a decade (probably more) if the discs' data sides are not exposed to light on a long-term basis and don't get scratched or warped due to excessive heat. I personally have a number of Fuji (Taiyo Yuden) CDs I burnt about 10 yrs. ago, kept in a drawer since , and they still read just fine. I just used one the other day as a matter of fact. And I have some Verbatim DVD+R discs burned several years ago that still play perfectly.

On the flip side, cheap discs (e.g., office store house brands, Memorex, etc.) with cheap dye, burned poorly with lots of errors, could degrade and become unreadable in a matter of months.

External hard drives are just like internal hard drives -- they could last five minutes or ten years. You never know, and you have no way of knowing when they're going to die. They're highly mechanical (duh), so the potential for failure is notable. But you get a lot of capacity bang for your buck. But if you drop it or bang it around, well ....

High quality USB flash drives (e.g., Corsair Flash Voyagers) are said to be completely reliable for ~ 100,000 read & write cycles. That should be more than enough for any human for a LOOONG time. Kingston Data Travelers have a 5-yr. warranty and the Corsair Flash Voyagers a 10-yr. warranty. Stay away from the jewel-colored ones you see in a cardboard box by the checkstand at the office supply stores or Wal-Mart. Buy a Corsair or Kingston DT at Fry's or Newegg, store it in a safe place, and forget it.

My $.02.

 

[RebateMonger]

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE QUALITY OF THE MEDIA AND THE QUALITY OF THE BURN. High quality discs with high quality dye, burned successfully on a good burner, should last at least a decade (probably more) if the discs' data sides are not exposed to light on a long-term basis and don't get scratched or warped due to excessive heat....

....On the flip side, cheap discs (e.g., office store house brands, Memorex, etc.) with cheap dye, burned poorly with lots of PIO errors, could degrade and become unreadable in a matter of months.

No storage method is perfect. That's why I suggest storing on multiple media types if possible. But if all of the caveats you listed above were true of hard drives, we'd all be pretty terrified of using hard drives.

 

[tcsenter]

I still do not trust hard drives to last 10 years after reading google's study showing failure rates of 8% or more after the first year of operation for a hard drive. Plus my own experience with failed hard drives versus unreadable discs.

Hard drives might fail, but the data is still there and can be recovered. Its not about "will my storage device still be functioning..." but is my data still there and can it be recovered using ordinary means, if necessary.

Its all about the data, whether it will still be there, and can be recovered, if need be. And in this respect, CD/DVD fails miserably.

I think CD's are more stable than DVD's and even the original CD-R's rated for 2-8x are a lot more forgiving to scratches than all the 24-48x media out there these days.

DVD recordable has much more stringent minimum requirements to receive the manufacturing license and logos. CD virtually has none.

 

[Ken90630]

No storage method is perfect. That's why I suggest storing on multiple media types if possible. But if all of the caveats you listed above were true of hard drives, we'd all be pretty terrified of using hard drives.

Which of the "caveats" do you find untrue?

 

[RebateMonger]

Which of the "caveats" do you find untrue?

I mean that when you go to the store to buy a hard drive, you don't generally have to research the brand, model, date of manufacture, and batch number of the hard drive and don't have to worry about it being exposed to sunlight, getting a scratch on it, the write-speed settings, or the condition of another piece of another fairly unreliable piece of hardware (the CD/DVD writer itself, in the case of CD/DVDs).

 

[Ken90630]

I mean that when you go to the store to buy a hard drive, you don't generally have to research the brand, model, date of manufacture, and batch number of the hard drive and don't have to worry about it being exposed to sunlight, getting a scratch on it, the write-speed settings, or the condition of another piece of another fairly unreliable piece of hardware (the CD/DVD writer itself, in the case of CD/DVDs).

Oh, okay. I thought you were questioning what I'd said about hard drive uncertainty.

I understand what you're saying about optical media, and I agree it can be a hassle. But being a hassle is a different subject than its reliability as a backup media if done correctly.

When buying optical drives, I only have to do the research once. I find one that's been reviewed favorably by CDRinfo.com or CDRlabs.com & that fits my needs, make a note of the first & second best-performing media for it, and typically buy a cakebox stack of 50 or 100 discs of those media at the outset. So I'm set for a long time, nothing changes, and I get high quality burns that last many years. Of course, I also back up really important stuff to a second form of storage (external HD and/or flash drive) in case the CD/DVD gets damaged.

I don't think there is a "best" storage media -- it depends on the user's needs & how they're going to use it (and take care of it).

 

[RebateMonger]

I don't think there is a "best" storage media -- it depends on the user's needs & how they're going to use it (and take care of it).

I have no problem with that statement.

I just don't want somebody to run to OfficeMax and buy whatever DVDs are on sale, and put their only copies of their baby's pictures on one of them. I've seen DVDs that couldn't be read one minute after they were created. But I also had a Maxtor hard disk "melt" in a tight space on a PC after copying 150 GB of video files onto it.

 

[Ken90630]

I have no problem with that statement.

I just don't want somebody to run to OfficeMax and buy whatever DVDs are on sale, and put their only copies of their baby's pictures on one of them. I've seen DVDs that couldn't be read one minute after they were created. But I also had a Maxtor hard disk "melt" in a tight space on a PC after copying 150 GB of video files onto it.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[C1]

If you must use optical media, then my understanding is that DvDRAM is a better media to use for backup. Again, always buy quality media. Also, some media is specified for suitability to be used as archive.

http://www.encoredataproducts.com/G...1-c-344.html?gclid=COL6tKWM3KACFRJWagodEjYICw

http://www.cd-lab.com/viewProduct.php?product=345&gclid=CIC9z7uM3KACFQM3gwodd0auBQ

 

[alexruiz]

If you must use optical media, then my understanding is that DvDRAM is a better media to use for backup. Again, always buy quality media. Also, some media is specified for suitability to be used as archive.

http://www.encoredataproducts.com/G...1-c-344.html?gclid=COL6tKWM3KACFRJWagodEjYICw

http://www.cd-lab.com/viewProduct.php?product=345&gclid=CIC9z7uM3KACFQM3gwodd0auBQ

Check the club cdfreaks.
According to many users, the "gold media" is not better than regular good quality DVDs.

In fact, the "medical records archival grade" media comes from the same production line than regular DVDs, they just go through an additional batch of testing, and are individually packed. Check what user have to say about them on club cdfreaks.

Gold is suggested in many uses because of its inert chemical properties (lazyness to combine, meaning no oxidation) but a good DVD dye is already inert.

A DVD is, by design, more resistant than a CD. In a CD, the reflective layer is the top layer. Scratch it a little, and gold or no gold, CD is gone. In a DVD, the reflective layer is sandwiched. For storage, DVD over CD all the way.

Dual layer vs single layer? Unless you are using verbatim MKM-001, most of the dual layer media is well behind single layer media for burn quality. Furthermore, most of the burners do a much better job burning single layer media, not to mention dual layer burns are slower.

Use an external hard drive as live copy, and make monthly backups to DVDs. Burning 5 or 6 DVDs shouldn't take more than 30 mins. Do it while browsing AT