It would be interesting to compare how views, positions, opinions differed/changed, and what held true or not (without any bickering/finger pointing or immature middle school taunts).
Archived Messages Re: War in Iraq vs. Current Messages
- Thread starter sirpado
- Start date
And remember all the threads back to the begining of the war when each day for two weeks or so someone would post "Have they found any wmd's today" and the response was usualy, "we have only been there a few weeks" or "its huge, give it some time"
You would be surprised to read mine, though I wasn't a member here yet so my earlier views aren't archived.
Bush convinced me Saddam had WMDs and was an imminent threat to the U.S.....
I know, what a fool.
You can bet, I'm just a little pissed now that we've come to find out the whole thing was what the ROW and 50% of the American public said it was, a major cockup
Thanks Pres. Bush.
Bush convinced me Saddam had WMDs and was an imminent threat to the U.S.....
I know, what a fool.
You can bet, I'm just a little pissed now that we've come to find out the whole thing was what the ROW and 50% of the American public said it was, a major cockup
Thanks Pres. Bush.
some here can only be seen as prescient when looking back at events. the evidence that convinced so
many here was the same evidence that convinced many int'l intel agencies that saddam would never
comply with sanctions, would never dismantle his vast ba'athist police state, and would never have
'rejoined the int'l community', neither he nor his sons, for decades to come, and many more iraqi
dissidents dead later. dr. david kay proved saddam had clandestine programs, continued interest in secret procurement of wmd, and billions of dollars in monies siphoned off from u.n. aid services.
many here was the same evidence that convinced many int'l intel agencies that saddam would never
comply with sanctions, would never dismantle his vast ba'athist police state, and would never have
'rejoined the int'l community', neither he nor his sons, for decades to come, and many more iraqi
dissidents dead later. dr. david kay proved saddam had clandestine programs, continued interest in secret procurement of wmd, and billions of dollars in monies siphoned off from u.n. aid services.
THOSE ARE NOT not the stated reasons for attacking Iraq. WMDs!!!!! Imminent Threat!
Is any of this ringing a bell?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
If one would look back, my support on this Iraq situation has been quite consistent. It is based on the fact that Saddam did not follow through with his end of the cease-fire agreement. Yes, that means I supported Clinton's bombing of him too. Saddam should have had 2 chances at following through not 16-17 over 13+ years. If resolutions aren't going to be backed up then there is no reason to have them or the agency(UN) that passes them - they'd be just another worthless debating society...oh wait...some think it already has become that
CkG
CkG
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
If one would look back, my support on this Iraq situation has been quite consistent. It is based on the fact that Saddam did not follow through with his end of the cease-fire agreement. Yes, that means I supported Clinton's bombing of him too. Saddam should have had 2 chances at following through not 16-17 over 13+ years. If resolutions aren't going to be backed up then there is no reason to have them or the agency(UN) that passes them - they'd be just another worthless debating society...oh wait...some think it already has become that
CkG
then why Is rumsfailed saying we are working with the Un to Get More Troops. I thought They were worthless.
Edit:::: Sorry I thread Crapped. I also Was fooled to a point By the Admin. I Never thought Our Government could Screw the Pooch So Bad, yet still Have and credibility Left. But Hey, Thats blind Partisanship for You.
Also, Anybody That voted for Bush in '00 that didnt think within 4 years that we would be back in Iraq, is an Idiot.
And what were the conditions of that cease-fire that were broken? Oh, yes, that Saddam was to destroy all of his WMDs.
Well, 13 months after the fall of Baghdad and hundreds and hundreds of people scouring the countryside looking for the known-to-exist WMDs and, by Rumsfeld's statements that they knew where they were, they sure have come up with only holding their d*cks in their hands.
Wouldn't be possible that the inspectors who helped to dismantle the NBC weapons programs during the 90s actually did their job and Saddam just didn't fully document the destruction? Naaaaaah....
Well, 13 months after the fall of Baghdad and hundreds and hundreds of people scouring the countryside looking for the known-to-exist WMDs and, by Rumsfeld's statements that they knew where they were, they sure have come up with only holding their d*cks in their hands.
Wouldn't be possible that the inspectors who helped to dismantle the NBC weapons programs during the 90s actually did their job and Saddam just didn't fully document the destruction? Naaaaaah....
Or Why couldnt we Wait to let the Inspection Teams finalize and Finish their Reporting of The Programs in Iraq. Why wouldnt we let them Finish their job that was mandated by our Resolutions Sponcered in the UN?
Could it be We knew what the end result would Be? Could it possible been the truth eveident Today?
could That Truth possible Made Us unable to preemptivly justify the War?
That's exactly what I've been saying.
When David Kay reported to Cheney that there was nothing to find and Cheney made him keep looking, my guess is Cheney then told Bush time was running out.
That's when Bush flip-flopped on his promise to put an attack to a vote by turning his back to the U.N. and not putting the matter up for a vote but deciding, unilaterally, to invade.
If that is true, Then One Needs to find The Reason for The Invasion. Why was the Invasion of Iraq needed at all costs? What Was the Utmost Importance For it, reguardless of the Evidence Justifying the WaR.
Why was the War impossible to avoid?
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
Nothing in the UN charter authorizes use of force in a 'pre-emptive' manner. There's a clause for self-defense though, as follows:
'armed attack'. Instead of an armed attack, we heard 'the sky is falling' distress cries from Condi Rice and other neocons forceasting mushroom clouds over major cities. (Funny that: chickenhawks mock some of the scientists who call for radical changes in how we live based on impending dangers of global warming with 'the sky is falling' jokes, yet they try to justify a war with the same kind of ' the sky is falling' warnings.
'armed attack'. Instead of an armed attack, we heard 'the sky is falling' distress cries from Condi Rice and other neocons forceasting mushroom clouds over major cities. (Funny that: chickenhawks mock some of the scientists who call for radical changes in how we live based on impending dangers of global warming with 'the sky is falling' jokes, yet they try to justify a war with the same kind of ' the sky is falling' warnings.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Wow - you people sure did get off topic after my post.
Why don't you try hard to concentrate on the topic instead of rehashing the war argument. I stated my position and opinion of yesteryear- now state yours.
CkG
Why don't you try hard to concentrate on the topic instead of rehashing the war argument. I stated my position and opinion of yesteryear- now state yours.
CkG
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
My concerns about going in unprepared and too early were justifited. It was not going to be a cake walk.
I trusted the intellignece regarding the WMD. (dsiapointed)
I also felt the Saddam was thumbing his nose at the UN and US adn was up to no good. (justified)
I trusted the intellignece regarding the WMD. (dsiapointed)
I also felt the Saddam was thumbing his nose at the UN and US adn was up to no good. (justified)
Replace "Saddam" with "Bush" and "US" with "most of the civilized world" and I would agree with you.
KK
Lifer
- Jan 2, 2001
- 15,903
- 4
- 81
Are you really that stupid or do you just play stupid here? How many planes were fired upon during this cease fire? How many times did saddam kick the inspectors out or threaten to? See you pussyfoot around with the enemy as the US had, then the enemy will push the line as close as he could. We could have taken him out back in '91, but we gave him a chance. One I disagree with. As far as I'm concerned, the first war never ended.
Oh you are pretty stupid, aren't you the same twit that said something about that admendment bush wants for this gay marriage ban, not being able to get past the supreme court?
KK
Ah, a few planes being fired upon (out of over 100,000 sorties) is justification for a full-scale invasion?
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
????
I see little differences between what I had figured out as FACT vs. the Bush Administrations blatent FABRICATIONS, - I followed the developments very closely, verifying as much as I could independently.
My son went there in the opening weeks, so I obviously had a vested interest in ascertaining the facts.
Most of what I mentioned and predicted have become spot-on, within a +/- 10% timeline.
(except for the underground resistance - more on that near the end of this post)
"But Saddam hasn't disarmed !'
Oh yeah ? where are his vast quantities of military stockpiles ?
a stack of old rusty guns, a few burried abandoned airplanes, and a 25 year old arlillary shell don't cut it.
'But Saddam didn't comply with the UN resolutions, thats why we had to go in !"
Well in retrospect hed had complied with the resolutions - the UN resolutions,
not Bush's interprotation of them (Bush dosen't/can't read) it was the UN's contract to enforce, not ours.
'But Iraq was a threat to America !'
Maybe a threat to Bush's friends control of OIL PROFITS, but not to the security of our nation.
He wasn't even a threat to the Iraqis that lived in the Nothern section of Iraq, No-Fly Zones kept his
army away, there were too many 'Special Forces' operating there for the previous 12 years in
working with the Kurds for Saddam to mount any military dominance there.
(hell, the 'Terrorist Camp' in the North was protected by us - it was working against Saddam)
(We only used refference to it to bolster our claims of a terrorist threat within Iraq - we alowed it)
I am suprised that the internal resurection took so long to escalate into 'Urban Warfare', I did think
that the underground would coalesce and begin anti-occupation resistance befor a year passed.
I see little differences between what I had figured out as FACT vs. the Bush Administrations blatent FABRICATIONS, - I followed the developments very closely, verifying as much as I could independently.
My son went there in the opening weeks, so I obviously had a vested interest in ascertaining the facts.
Most of what I mentioned and predicted have become spot-on, within a +/- 10% timeline.
(except for the underground resistance - more on that near the end of this post)
"But Saddam hasn't disarmed !'
Oh yeah ? where are his vast quantities of military stockpiles ?
a stack of old rusty guns, a few burried abandoned airplanes, and a 25 year old arlillary shell don't cut it.
'But Saddam didn't comply with the UN resolutions, thats why we had to go in !"
Well in retrospect hed had complied with the resolutions - the UN resolutions,
not Bush's interprotation of them (Bush dosen't/can't read) it was the UN's contract to enforce, not ours.
'But Iraq was a threat to America !'
Maybe a threat to Bush's friends control of OIL PROFITS, but not to the security of our nation.
He wasn't even a threat to the Iraqis that lived in the Nothern section of Iraq, No-Fly Zones kept his
army away, there were too many 'Special Forces' operating there for the previous 12 years in
working with the Kurds for Saddam to mount any military dominance there.
(hell, the 'Terrorist Camp' in the North was protected by us - it was working against Saddam)
(We only used refference to it to bolster our claims of a terrorist threat within Iraq - we alowed it)
I am suprised that the internal resurection took so long to escalate into 'Urban Warfare', I did think
that the underground would coalesce and begin anti-occupation resistance befor a year passed.
lozina
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2001
- 11,711
- 8
- 81
Ask yourself what our combat aircraft were doing violating the sovereign airspace of Iraq during a cease fire, instead of why they were sometimes fired upon. The 'no fly zones' were illegal.
Secondly, Saddam never 'kick out' any inspectors and I welcome you to find evidence that points to that. Inspectors have been pulled out by the US or UN by their own decision. Don't try to spin that either.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter