Arcade Games are a Scam... Who knew?!

Nov 8, 2012
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Yes, pretty much just a confirmation of what everyone always knew and presumed. From the guys who brought you the video on how to beat carnival games, they put an arcade game to the test.

Overall pretty entertaining to see...

 

SearchMaster

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2002
7,791
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I sent this to my son - he has a 3d printer and has gotten pretty good with the CAD software, and they're starting with Arduino programming this week. I wish we had that kind of stuff when I was in high school - the coolest thing we did was putting Na in water.

I have a 10yo niece who is a super bright kid but just refuses to believe those arcade claw games are a scam. She'll spend a crap ton of daddy's money and hours at a time playing those things.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
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I have a 10yo niece who is a super bright kid but just refuses to believe those arcade claw games are a scam. She'll spend a crap ton of daddy's money and hours at a time playing those things.

There's the important part of the equation. Give her an allowance and let her decide between spending HER money on the game or spending HER money on something else she wants and watch how quickly she'll identify the scam.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,321
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I thought this was already well known, and that claw machines had specific setups to determine how often they'd pay out a stuffed animal.
 
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GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
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I thought this was already well known, and that claw machines had specific setups to determine how often they'd pay out a stuffed animal.

It is well known. The odds are rigged against you in casinos too, that doesn't stop people from playing.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
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It is well known. The odds are rigged against you in casinos too, that doesn't stop people from playing.

For slot machines and other stupid video-based ones, sure - but thats why I would only ever play card-based games in a casino.... Dealer does have slight advantages (for example, dealer gets to go until he busts in blackjack), but overall the skill of the player is much more of a determining factor of if you will win.
 

jtvang125

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2004
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I thought this was already well known, and that claw machines had specific setups to determine how often they'd pay out a stuffed animal.

I remember a few times where my nephews and nieces were just killing it on those claw machines. Probably won 4 or 5 times until the only animals left were too tightly stuffed together to ever get enough grip on. It really comes down to the prizes inside because the strength of the claws are set so low. Once in a while the machine will give the player a break and up the strength but you can still fail to win if you suck or choose a bad prize.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
I thought this was already well known, and that claw machines had specific setups to determine how often they'd pay out a stuffed animal.
Yeah, well known and it is another form of gambling.
IMO, it shouldn't be allowed for minors, which is their targeted audience.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
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For slot machines and other stupid video-based ones, sure - but thats why I would only ever play card-based games in a casino.... Dealer does have slight advantages (for example, dealer gets to go until he busts in blackjack), but overall the skill of the player is much more of a determining factor of if you will win.

You're joking right? There are actually some slots that have worse house odds than blackjack.

The only type of "fair" gambling is parimutuel betting like fantasy football, horse racing, where you are just dealing with the house take, or poker with the rake.

These are strictly "player vs player" gambling where the casino is not a participant.

edit: https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ most casinos don't operate blackjack at that low of an edge.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

You'll usually be at a minimum of .5% house edge for blackjack.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
146
You're joking right? There are actually some slots that have worse house odds than blackjack.

The only type of "fair" gambling is parimutuel betting like fantasy football, horse racing, where you are just dealing with the house take, or poker with the rake.

These are strictly "player vs player" gambling where the casino is not a participant.

edit: https://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/ most casinos don't operate blackjack at that low of an edge.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

You'll usually be at a minimum of .5% house edge for blackjack.

Blackjack is something I would never play - and it's the main one where house has a huge advantage IMO. What amazing house edge is there for games like hold 'em?

Also when I was last in Vegas I just played hold 'em where the dealer wasn't even playing - they just dealt for others and people tipped the dealer when winning.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
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Blackjack is something I would never play - and it's the main one where house has a huge advantage IMO. What amazing house edge is there for games like hold 'em?

Also when I was last in Vegas I just played hold 'em where the dealer wasn't even playing - they just dealt for others and people tipped the dealer when winning.

Okay, well card-based games as more blackjack, or pai gow, caribbean stud, etc. Not poker. If you only play poker then you just deal with the house rake which might be 3-5$ per hand.

blackjack is still the smallest house advantage of the card games. Craps has some bets that are even odds.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
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Blackjack is something I would never play - and it's the main one where house has a huge advantage IMO. What amazing house edge is there for games like hold 'em?

Your opinion is flat out stupid and if you don't understand that I'm surprised that the casinos don't have you on speed dial to offer you free limos door to door every day. Blackjack is the game that casinos have the least mathematical advantage and its the game where a good player that understand math can lose at the slowest rate. The house rake on poker games is a hell of a lot higher than the house edge on blackjack. It varies from 2.5-10% of the pot size while a good blackjack player is surrendering about 1.5%
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
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Craps has some bets that are even odds.

Name one. Craps has bets that are even payouts, 1:1, but none of them are really even money. The closest is the pass/don't pass and that still gives the house about 1.5% edge
 

Nashemon

Senior member
Jun 14, 2012
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I don't think I've ever won a claw game in my life, but oh, man, Cyclone was my game when I was a kid! I still have two ziplock freezer bags filled with the tickets I won with a single $20 bill. I forget the exact count; Somewhere around 4500. I still have them because unfortunately when I returned later the arcade no longer accepted the particular tickets I had. Of course, I haven't been able to replicate that day ever since (and believe me, I've tried!), so I believe it when he says the house can adjust the jackpot frequency. But I remember feeling like a baller with all those tickets at my feet.

Which reminds me, the early 90's were awesome. I could just disappear from my parents view for hours in a busy mall and they never worried about me being kidnapped.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
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352
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Name one. Craps has bets that are even payouts, 1:1, but none of them are really even money. The closest is the pass/don't pass and that still gives the house about 1.5% edge

"Free Odds" is actually even, but you have to also place a pass/dont pass, come / dont come in conjunction. So the bet itself is at even odds but your overall bet still is hampered by the pass/come bet.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
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"Free Odds" is actually even, but you have to also place a pass/dont pass, come / dont come in conjunction. So the bet itself is at even odds but your overall bet still is hampered by the pass/come bet.

Right, there are no even bets. Period. Best possible bet in craps is a 1.5% edge to the house.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
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Right, there are no even bets. Period. Best possible bet in craps is a 1.5% edge to the house.

No...

If you have 100x odds, you lower the house edge to below sub .021% vs 1.41% on the pass line.

5$ pass line, 500$ odds. If you hit the point you should win $1,010 against $505 bet, but instead you win $1,005. The only money the casino made in that bet is actually from the pass line.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
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Claw games, Cyclone, Stacker and all such games can be set to be fair or fraudulent. I worked for several theme parks repairing and maintaining such games. You are always at the mercy of the operators ethics.

Claw games can be set to give you 100% grip strength for the entire game, or set to some lesser grip strength. They can also be set to start at 100% grip strength to make it easy to grab a prize, and then reduce to 0% on the way to the drop chute so the prize falls. They can also be set to drop all prizes on the way to the chute until enough people have played and lost to ensure the operator never loses money. Also, you can always pack the prizes to make it harder or just put prizes in that are too heavy for the claws to actually lift.

Cyclone, Stacker and other prize/ticket machines can be set exactly the same way, to make sure you lose until the machine has made enough money for the greedy operator to allow a single win, then it goes right back into auto-loose mode.

Basically, never play games at small retailers or restaurants or in states where there is no regulation of the skill game industry. Also, don't confuse these skill games with gambling. Gambling has set odds. Games of skill are winable based on the skill of the player and there is no chance involved, otherwise it becomes gambling. Setting a skill games to be unwinable until enough money has been made is FRAUD, IMHO.

The skill games you can safely play are at large theme parks. I worked at a theme park in Los Angeles and we had frequent visits from LAPD vice squad who regulated skill games in the area. I got dinged one time because the prize level of my crane games had gotten too low on a busy day.

All skill game operators are not scum. Good operators like us wanted people to win. We work to adjust the win ratio on the games until we pay out a ratio of prizes similar to what the prize would cost in a retail location. All of our games, ring toss, balloon pop, basketball toss, were all very winable if a player has enough skill.

We want winners. We want folks walking around with that giant teddy bear so more folks come and play. Heck, we used to give folks tips on how to win. The key is that you are playing for a prize we buy in bulk for $2 (and might sell for $10 in a retail shop), and it's $3 to play the game. If one out of every five players win we are doing great. Some games are harder to win and have fewer winners but will have a more expensive prize. That said, if someone is awesome at basketball free throws they can win a prize at that game on just about every shot. That's why we have daily and seasonal prize limits.

It's a business just like any other and you have to know how honest the operator is. Or just play PacMan when you get to the arcade.
 
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