Arab Muslims - what went wrong

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
This simple little article presents some staggering facts about the state of Islamic civilisation in the Middle East today. I found some of these statistics to be shocking. After reading the article it is clear to me just how absurd it is to force "democracy" on countries with an under-educated predominently Muslim population. These countries have none of the things that allow a democracy to function (an educated population, high literacy levels including high female literacy, a strong independent judicial system.) Surely a better approach would be to build secular schools in these countries and make sure every kid - including girls - gets to learn how to read and write. Why the rush to democratize Afghanistan, Iraq? A military occupation for 20 years would make more sense - that would allow time to educate the people, establish a secular rule of law, promote economic prosperity, etc.



What went wrong?

Dr Farrukh Saleem

The combined annual GDP of 57 Muslim countries remains under $2 trillion. America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $10.4 trillion; China $5.7 trillion, Japan $3.5 trillion and Germany $2.1 trillion. Even India's GDP is estimated at over $3 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).

Oil rich Saudi Arabia, U.A.E., Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $430 billion; Netherlands alone has a higher annual GDP while Buddhist Thailand produces goods and services worth $429 billion.

Muslims are 22 percent of the world population and produce less than five percent of global GDP. Even more worrying is that the Muslim countries' GDP as a percent of the global GDP is going down over time. The Arabs, it seems, are particularly worse off. According to the United Nations' Arab Development Report: "Half of Arab women cannot read; One in five Arabs live on less than $2 per day; Only 1 percent of the Arab population has a personal computer, and only half of 1 percent use the Internet; Fifteen percent of the Arab workforce is unemployed, and this number could double by 2010; The average growth rate of the per capita income during the preceding 20 years in the Arab world was only one-half of 1 percent per annum, worse than anywhere but sub-Saharan Africa."

The planet's poorest countries include Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan and Mozambique. At least six of the poorest of the poor are countries with a Muslim majority.

Conclusion: Muslims of the world are among the poorest of the poor.

Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758. From within 1.4 billion Muslims Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail are the only two Muslim men who won a Nobel Prize in physics and chemistry (Salam pursued his scientific work in Italy and the UK, Zewail at California Institute of Technology). Dr Salam in his home country is not even considered a Muslim.

Over the past 105 years, 1.4 billion Muslims have produced eight Nobel Laureates while a mere 14 million Jews have produced 167 Nobel Laureates. Of the 1.4 billion Muslims less than 300,000 qualify as 'scientists', and that converts to a ratio of 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The United States of America has 1.1 million scientists (4,099 per million); Japan has 700,000 (5,095 per million).

Fact: Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read). In Christendom, adult literacy rate stands at 78 percent.

Consider, for instance, that Muslims constitute 22 percent of world population with a 1 percent share of Nobel Prizes. Jews constitute 0.23 percent of world population with a 22 percent share of Nobel Prizes.

What really went wrong? Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak. What went wrong? Arriving at the right diagnosis is extremely critical because the prescription depends on it. Consider this:

Diagnosis 1: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because they have 'abandoned the divine heritage of Islam'. Prescription: We must return to our real or imagined past.

Diagnosis 2: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because we have refused to change with time.

Keep pace with time -- al Quran

What went wrong?



NOTE: The figures given in this article were taken from a 1980 study by the World Bank. In 1980 around 60% of Muslims were illiterate. In 2001 UNDP reported an average of 60 percent literacy in Islamic countries. Figures
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
Probably Diagnosis #2 - all the measurements you noted are tied with material prosperity in modern times.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
0
0
It's a thoughtful post.

Here's something I believe will tickle your fancy. Since you're already comparing Muslims to Jews, consider this: how many of the Jewish Nobel laureates do you think, would describe themselves as Orthodox in their beliefs? I am fairly sure that you'll find that with only a few exceptions, they were all secular people of Hebrew heritage, but were far from strict religion. Furthermore, if you examine the societies they lived in, you'll realize that most likely all of them were secular societies.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
Reading all those facts reminds me of all the progress graphs when playing Civilization. It would look like a flat, decreasing line, where the West's graph would look exponential.

Government: Fundamentalist

Ranking:

Research: Last
Economy: Last
Military: Last
Population: 2nd
Education: Last
Approval: Last
Crime Rate: 1st
Land Area: 2nd

Overall Ranking : Last
Favorite Unit: Suicide Bomber

Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Hafen
Reading all those facts reminds me of all the progress graphs when playing Civilization. It would look like a flat, decreasing line, where the West's graph would look exponential.

Civilization: Muslim Alliance
Ranking:

Research: Last
Economy: Last
Military: Last
Population: 2nd
Education: Last
Approval: Last
Crime Rate: 1st

Overall Ranking : Last

Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!

Your list makes no sense at all cause it is wrong.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Also 800 million Muslims are not illiterate.

Your list is wrong and I stopped taking that entire post seriously after I read it.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Your entire post is full of BS (again).

Indonesia (Largest Muslim Country):

Population 241,973,879
Literacy Rate: 87.9%
-> 212,695,039

Economy: Ranked #15 World -> $899 Million

Just that one country alone proves that your entire post is full of idiotic statements and you need to do research before you post crap
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Hafen
Reading all those facts reminds me of all the progress graphs when playing Civilization. It would look like a flat, decreasing line, where the West's graph would look exponential.

Civilization: Muslim Alliance

Government: Fundamentalist

Ranking:

Research: Last
Economy: Last
Military: Last
Population: 2nd
Education: Last
Approval: Last
Crime Rate: 1st
Land Area: 2nd

Overall Ranking : Last
Favorite Unit: Suicide Bomber

[/b]

Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get under a Fundamentalist Gov't. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!

Your list makes no sense at all cause it is wrong.

Your right, I forgot a few things, I'll just add those back in :)


 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Hafen
Reading all those facts reminds me of all the progress graphs when playing Civilization. It would look like a flat, decreasing line, where the West's graph would look exponential.

Civilization: Muslim Alliance

Government: Fundamentalist

Ranking:

Research: Last
Economy: Last
Military: Last
Population: 2nd
Education: Last
Approval: Last
Crime Rate: 1st
Land Area: 2nd

Overall Ranking : Last
Favorite Unit: Suicide Bomber

[/b]

Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get under a Fundamentalist Gov't. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!

Your list makes no sense at all cause it is wrong.

Your right, I forgot a few things, I'll just add those back in :)

I suggest you go get an education for one.

You have no idea what it is you are talkin about.

http://www.customdegrees.com/

That website is perfect for you
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Hafen


Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!

Haha ironman mode ftl (or it that alpha centuri?)

You made my day with that post, oil bonus tiles *snicker*

Sid meiers needs to change the lowest leader you will be remembered as from dan quayle to bush lol

Congratulations!
Throughout History Your Leadership ranks With: George Bush

With a Civilization rating of 001%
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Hafen


Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!


Haha ironman mode ftl (or it that alpha centuri?)

You made my day with that post, oil bonus tiles *snicker*

Sid meiers needs to change the lowest leader you will be remembered as from dan quayle to bush lol

Congratulations!
Throughout History Your Leadership ranks With: George Bush

With a Civilization rating of 001% :laugh:


:D
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Your entire post is full of BS (again).

Indonesia (Largest Muslim Country):

Population 241,973,879
Literacy Rate: 87.9%
-> 212,695,039

Economy: Ranked #15 World -> $899 Million

Just that one country alone proves that your entire post is full of idiotic statements and you need to do research before you post crap

hey idiot, who are you speaking to?

Since you and Aimster can't play nice, you may both take 2 weeks off to think about it.

AnandTech Moderator


 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
WTF

P&N has gone down the drain

or maybe Im being moody cause I just woke up

I'm not happy in the mornings...
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Aimster
Your entire post is full of BS (again).

Indonesia (Largest Muslim Country):

Population 241,973,879
Literacy Rate: 87.9%
-> 212,695,039

Economy: Ranked #15 World -> $899 Million

Just that one country alone proves that your entire post is full of idiotic statements and you need to do research before you post crap

hey idiot, who are you speaking to?

I'm obviously speaking to you

This thread is a joke.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF

P&N has gone down the drain

or maybe Im being moody cause I just woke up

I'm not happy in the mornings...
you woke up at noon?! lol..slacker! :p

as for the topic... there is nothing wrong with all that is Islamic. rather, it's the .01% of fanatics that live amongst thm who ruin it for everyone.

get rid of that violent and hateful .01%, and the rest will be brought into the 21st century much more quickly.

then again, the OP's empirical data is very interesting.... has it been reporoduced by more than one source? have the numbers been confirmed beyond the original author?
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Aimster
Your entire post is full of BS (again).

Indonesia (Largest Muslim Country):

Population 241,973,879
Literacy Rate: 87.9%
-> 212,695,039

Economy: Ranked #15 World -> $899 Million

Just that one country alone proves that your entire post is full of idiotic statements and you need to do research before you post crap

hey idiot, who are you speaking to?

I'm obviously speaking to you

This thread is a joke.

it is not obvious at all. you appear to be some crazed fool who wandered into the thread and began shouting at no one in particular.

if you want to respond to some of the ideas expressed in my opening post, then please have the common courtesty to quote the material you are responding to. At least that way we know that you are not utterly crazy and speaking to yourself.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Aimster
Your entire post is full of BS (again).

Indonesia (Largest Muslim Country):

Population 241,973,879
Literacy Rate: 87.9%
-> 212,695,039

Economy: Ranked #15 World -> $899 Million

Just that one country alone proves that your entire post is full of idiotic statements and you need to do research before you post crap

hey idiot, who are you speaking to?

I'm obviously speaking to you

This thread is a joke.

it is not obvious at all. you appear to be some crazed fool who wandered into the threat and began shouting at no one in particular.

if you want to respond to some of the ideas expressed in my opening post, then please have the politeness to quote the material you are responding to. At least that way we know that you are not utterly crazy and speaking to yourself.

ok I'll be polite

Dear aidanjm.

I want to say this as nice as possible, your thread is pure crap. Crap has no real substance. Your thread is therefore crap.

I would also like to inform you that everything in your first post is wrong. You should do your homework before you make this crazy threads of yours.

Crap Police,
Aimster

P.S. I am not shouting. I am enjoying my time. Sorry you take this so seriously.

hugs?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Hafen


Hehe. Bush probably looked at this, saw the oil bonus tiles, and got the idea that it would be good to invade, just he forgot about the Partisan Fighter and Social Unrest bonuses they get. Doh! Where is the reload button??!!! That's not what I meant to do!!! Dammit, why didn't I save it first?!!!


Haha ironman mode ftl (or it that alpha centuri?)

You made my day with that post, oil bonus tiles *snicker*

Sid meiers needs to change the lowest leader you will be remembered as from dan quayle to bush lol

Congratulations!
Throughout History Your Leadership ranks With: George Bush

With a Civilization rating of 001% :laugh:


:D



I propose all canidates take the civ test, if you can't even get your first city up before your settler wanders off drunk to be eaten by lions *cough bush cough* then you are immediatly disqualified.

(ok no more civ jokes from me) ;)
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
I need to get back into computer games..

I have no idea what you people are talking about

If only you were talking in StarCraft.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Aimster
I need to get back into computer games..

I have no idea what you people are talking about

If only you were talking in StarCraft.
Zerrrrrgggggg! ;)
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Aimster
I need to get back into computer games..

I have no idea what you people are talking about

If only you were talking in StarCraft.



http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/home.htm


Interesting game if you are into geopolitics and wars etc.

Don't tell your girlfriend/wife I gave you the idea to start playing though ;)

It's kind of a simulation of the history of the human race from stone age to colonizing other planets with all the government choices, religions, and social planning and lots of wars that all progress through history. You can be a fascist, fundamentalist tyrranical religious warring civ, tree hugger green people or mix of them all however you like. Nuke other countries, ally with them all, blackmail them all, be pacifist isolationist, invade them with legions in roman ages, be high culture and build lots of wonders of the world, whatever. Kinda addictive but not a typical RTS or shoot em up even though wars can be intense with lots of different strategies depending on how you play, can take days to play all 4000 years of history.