Apples to Apples...err Dell Comparison

[ninjit]

I just posted this in the comments section of Anand's blog, but I'm pasting it here too along with the details of the speced out systems.

If the price-parity holds I can imagine a lot of people would buy the MacBook (because it's more aestheticly pleasing) just to try out Mac OSX, knowing that they can always install Windows if they want to.

By not locking the EFI, Apple is making it more enticing for people to convert from windows - prior to this I would have considered macs to be generally more expensive than equivalent Windows PCs, and people are less likely to plunk down a huge chunk of change for something new that they aren't sure will meet all their needs.

I personally use both Windows and Mac OSX extensively everyday, and prefer the Mac for almost everything, I use my Windows machine mostly for older programs that I still use and then for games too.

With all the same hardware now, I'm eager to see direct comparisons in performance between Windows, Mac OSX, and Linux (HINT HINT Anandtech peeps)

No they aren't 64-bit.

But unless you're working with ridiculously large datasets that need huge memory spaces (which wouldn't be doing on a laptop anyways), you won't miss 64-bit on your laptop.

Also, Apple has said they aren't locking the hardware to Mac OSX only.
Which means you can take your new MacBook Pro laptop and install windows onto it.

And considering the announced specs, this maybe be the best Core Duo laptop you can buy even compared to the currently expected PC versions.

Hmmm, I just speced out the equivalent dell E1750 to match a loaded Mac Book Pro, and they came out roughly the same price-wise:
the MacBook came out to $3248
the Dell came out to $3629 - $300 current instant rebate promotion = $3329

Almost exactly the same components, even including 3 year warranty and a media remote.
The only differences are The Dell has a 17" screen (Mac is 15.4"), Dell has a 256MB Nvidia 7800 Go (mac has 256MB ATI Mobility X1600), and the Dell DVD burner is Dual-layer (the Mac is only single-layer which I'm curious as to why they didn't go with a dual-layer). Oh yeh, no analog modem on the mac either.

yes you could argue that those pros for the dell make it a better value, but then you also have to consider the macs magnesium casing vs Dell's crappy plastic, etc.

heck I'd still go with the mac for the possibility of having a dual boot system - mac OS X for the most part, and Win Xp (or vista later) for those times when you need windows (i.e. many games).

oooh, man this sounds better and better the more I think about it... Now all I need is $3000 to blow - how much is a kidney going for these days on the black market??

MacBook Pro:

MacBook Pro - 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
Part Number: Z0CN
100GB Serial ATA drive @ 7200 rpm
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 - 256MB GDDR3
2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Estimated Ship: February
Remove $2,899.00 $2,899.00
AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro/PowerBook (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll
Part Number: S2304Z/A
Estimated Ship: 1-2 business days
Remove $349.00 $349.00

Cart Subtotal: $3,248.00



Dell Inspiron E1705:

Intel® Core? Duo Processor T2400 (1.83GHz/667MHz FSB), Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005 Unit Price $3,530.00
Dell Home Customers: Save $300 off the Dell Insprion E1705!
Limited Time Offer!
- $300.00
Catalog Number: 29
Module Description Show Details
Intel® Core? Duo Processor T2400 (1.83GHz/667MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005
17 inch UltraSharp? Wide Screen UXGA Display with TrueLife?
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
256MB NVIDA® GeForce? Go 7800
100GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
8x CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps)
53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
3 Year Limited Warranty plus 3 Year At-Home Service plus Nights and Weekend
Dell Wireless 350 Bluetooth Internal(2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)

TOTAL:$3,230.00

 

[halfadder]

The Dell has a larger screen, better optical drive, more mature drivers for the graphics, better warranty.

The MacBook is thinner/smaller, has gigabit ethernet, mini-optical audio out, backlit keyboard, remote control, magnetically attached power connector (comes loose instantly when you trip over the cord, nothing to break), larger battery (60 WHr), comes with the full iLife 2006 suite of software as well as Quicken 2006.

 

[halfadder]

If you're a student, the MacBook in that configuration is $2,898 from the online Apple store. Free shipping.

 

[ninjit]

Originally posted by: halfadder
If you're a student, the MacBook in that configuration is $2,898 from the online Apple store. Free shipping.

Yeh, that's what I was looking at originally, but i couldn't find the Dell CoreDuo on their educational store.

 

[halfadder]

Dell's educational pricing is hit-or-miss. It's usually better to wait for a good coupon weekend and stack three or four coupons to bring down the price.

 

[duragezic]

I can't stand OS X. Too little of software available as well.

I'd get the Dell system and dual boot with a nice linux distro. Best of both worlds. Don't need some fancy dumbed-down GUI if you actually use a computer to get things done.

 

[halfadder]

To each his own. My preference is command line + basic GUI, so I do a lot of work in Linux, I prefer the basic XFCE desktop environment. Funny how when I think of "fancy dumbed-down GUI" I immediately think of either XP or KDE. 60% of my computing time is on Mac OS X, mostly due to web surfing with my PowerBook and the weekly photo/video/dvd-burn with the various iLife tools. I never really got into computer music/audio, I like my radio.

Good meta sites to find Mac software:
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/
http://www.apple.com/games/

Of course now I'm way off topic!

 

[Lonyo]

Gameway 15.4" machine: $2300

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional (SP2) w/ XP Pro Backup CD (limited time promotion)
Application Software: Microsoft® Works 8.0
AntiVirus Software: McAfee® Internet Security Suite 90-day Complimentary Subscription
Processor: Intel® Core? Duo Processor T2400 (1.83 GHz, 667MHz FSB, 2MB L2 Cache) ........ [+US$90.00]
Memory: 2048MB 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) ........ [+US$349.00]
Video: ATI Mobility? Radeon® X1400 SE 128MB Graphics (up to 256MB HyperMemory) ........ [+US$100.00]
Screen: 15.4" WSXGA+ TFT Active Matrix (1400 x 1050 max. resolution) ........ [+US$100.00]
Hard Drive: 100GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive ........ [+US$170.00]
Optical Drive: Modular 8x Multi-Format Double Layer DVD Writer (DVD±R/±RW/CD-RW) ........ [+US$75.00]
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Notebook Value Plus Service Plan -- 3 year part/labor/NBD on-site/3 year technical support ........ [+US$229.99]
Battery: Primary 8-cell Lithium ion battery with AC pack and 1 yr. limited battery warranty ........ [+US$39.00]

 

[halfadder]

How does 128 MB X1400SE compare to 256 MB X1600? I'm a n00b when it comes to 3D hardware.

I think the Dell and MacBook above have 7200rpm drives for that price.

What kind of Wifi and Bluetooth does that have? Do they sell a version with 667 MHz FSB and 667 MHz DDR2 memory? Do they bundle some video editing, dvd burning, and music composition software? Any other software included?

 

[Stan]

But... its a gateway. I dont drive a Kia. I dont live in a trailer. I dont own a emach... erm.. Gateway..

 

[halfadder]

What does e-Machines have to do with Gateway?

 

[lein]

Gateway bought emachines.

 

[CalamitySymphony]

The Dell is cheaper. Period. If you don't know where, or how... you should try to learn how to use Google or Internet.

You can start with "Hot Deals" forum.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: lein
Gateway bought emachines.

Other way around

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: lein
Gateway bought emachines.

Other way around

It could be argued that NeXT bought Apple

 

[Looney]

The Dell you used for the comparison is in a completely different category than the Apple. It's a gaming desktop replacement. I don't think Dell currently has a comparable one atm (dual core that is)... but when they do, i would bet it'll be at least $500 cheaper than an Apple. But then again, it wouldn't be built as well too.

 

[ponyo]

Is it fact that you can run Windows on the new MacBook? The lack of information on this and the unknown battery life is the primary reason I haven't order the new MacBook. I'm really hurting with my 6 yr old iBook and was waiting on the new Intel MacBook.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Is it fact that you can run Windows on the new MacBook? The lack of information on this and the unknown battery life is the primary reason I haven't order the new MacBook. I'm really hurting with my 6 yr old iBook and was waiting on the new Intel MacBook.

Yep, you'll be able to. The only official word so far i believe is that it's not locked to OSX only, but since it's all based on x86 architecture now, it should be easy to get drivers for Windows.

 

[ninjit]

Originally posted by: Looney
The Dell you used for the comparison is in a completely different category than the Apple. It's a gaming desktop replacement. I don't think Dell currently has a comparable one atm (dual core that is)... but when they do, i would bet it'll be at least $500 cheaper than an Apple. But then again, it wouldn't be built as well too.

Well considering that specs are so similar, I consider it a pretty good comparison.
if you say the Dell is gaming desktop replacement, then the apple could be considered one as well.

Categories are bogus labels put on the machines by the companies for marketing purposes.
The Inspiron XPS is lableled as a "gaming" laptop, and the 9300 is a "portable media center". yet you can configure one with essentially the same specs as the XPS for almost $1000 less.

If you honestly only shop between brands based on the "categories" they say their products fall under, you're probably paying a lot more than you need to.

Yes, Dell will come out with a lower end DualCore eventually, but it won't have the Geforce 7800 Go, which compares to the ATI X1600. It won't have the faster hard drive options, It'll have a lot of other lower end features as well - so of course it'll be cheaper.
But then you wouldn't compare it to the MacBook in the first place would you?

 

[halfadder]

The new Macs use Intel EFI instead of a traditional BIOS. It's better than a BIOS, more like the OpenFirmware of a Sun workstation or PowerPC Mac, but it's not currently supported by the 32-bit version of Windows XP. So it's not currently possible to boot into Windows. Give it a week or two and I'm sure someone will have a hack/workaround. There are also rumors of a new version of VirtualPC from Microsoft to run Windows from within Mac OS X.

As for battery life, the MacBookPro has a 60 watt-hour battery and uses a standard Intel chipset, so it should be comparable to similar Windows-running notebooks. The ATI X1600 CPU might draw more power than integrated graphics or X600 or X300 graphics, so we'll have to wait for a full review to be sure.

 

[Looney]

Yes, Dell will come out with a lower end DualCore eventually, but it won't have the Geforce 7800 Go, which compares to the ATI X1600.

That's why the comparisons aren't quite fair... it has nothing to do with the categories, the X1600 performs only half as well as the 7800Go... as well as a larger and better screen.

 

[ninjit]

The new book is built on EFI, something Intel has been pushing to replace the decades old BIOS.
I've only just started reading up about it, so I don't know a whole lot - but from what I gather the EFI is what initiates all the devices and then starts the OS, instead of a regular bootloader.

So, Apple could have locked the EFI on the MacBooks to only load OS X, but reports say they haven't - So windows would work on the architecture, but it would have trouble working with the EFI.

Vista is expected to support the new system.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Still cant really compare it because one notebook will use Mac software and the other will use Windows.

 

[halfadder]

Originally posted by: ninjit
Categories are bogus labels put on the machines by the companies for marketing purposes

There are differences in case construction. Compare the Dell Latitude D810 to the Dell Inspiron 6000. They can be ordered with the same exact specs, right down to the same LCD and battery. However the Latitude has much better, much more sturdy construction as it's a "business model". The cooresponding Inspiron model has flimsy plastic and feels more like a junker HP you'd find at Walmart. In that example the Latitude was worth the few extra bucks. (Much less preinstalled "bonus" software / malware / cruft too).

 

[imported_Lucifer]

I don't mind it if you can't dual boot with Windows. However, if Microsoft does in fact release an updated VirtualPC for these intel Macs, then I will definatly be buying a MacBook Pro.