Apple's Jobs blasts teachers unions

[NFS4]

Apple chief executive Steve Jobs lashed out at teachers unions during an education reform conference this past weekend, claiming that no amount of technology in the classroom would better public schools until principals had authorization to fire bad teachers.

Speaking alongside Dell founder and recently reappointed chief executive Michael Dell at the Austin, Texas-based conference, the Associated Press reports that Jobs focused on comparing schools to businesses with principals serving as CEOs.

"What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn't get rid of people that they thought weren't any good?" he asked. "Not really great ones because if you're really smart you go, 'I can't win."'

Jobs said the problem with U.S. institutions is that they have become unionized to a point where ridding public schools of poor teachers is prohibited. "This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy," he said.

Although Jobs drew enthusiastic applause at various intervals, he acknowledged that his raw criticisms were unlikely to be as well-received by the local school board.

"Apple just lost some business in this state, I'm sure," he said.

Dell, who reportedly sat quietly with his hands folded in his lap during Jobs' tirade, responded by saying that unions were created because employers were treating his employees unfairly.

"So now you have these enterprises where they take good care of their people," he said. "The employees won, they do really well and succeed."

During his speech, Jobs reportedly told the crowd that he envisioned future schools where textbooks would be replaced with a free, online information source that are constantly updated by experts, like the online encyclopedia Wikipedia.

"I think we'd have far more current material available to our students and we'd be freeing up a tremendous amount of funds that we could buy delivery vehicles with - computers, faster Internet, things like that," he said. "And I also think we'd get some of the best minds in the country contributing."

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2503

 

[dmcowen674]

Teachers should be paid like wait staff at $2.13 hr, this way the school board can afford to get new Apple Computers every quarter instead of every year.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

During his speech, Jobs reportedly told the crowd that he envisioned future schools where textbooks would be replaced with a free, online information source that are constantly updated by any idiot with a keyboard and an Internet connection, like the online encyclopedia Wikipedia. LOL APPLE SUX ROFL

OMG NO WAI PEECEES FTL MAC PWNZ JOO

Edited to better reflect Wikipedia.

- M4H

 

[Lonyo]

I wonder what Jobs will say next.
Maybe he will tell us how to end world hunger?

 

[BigJ]

Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Teachers should be paid like wait staff at $2.13 hr, this way the school board can afford to get new Apple Computers every quarter instead of every year.

Yeah, the profits from a quarterly B&E on the schools will be well worth the added risk.

- M4H

 

[ShotgunSteven]

From a previous thread: 20/20: Stupid In America

The video has some true nightmare scenarios where districts pay teachers to sit in empty rooms because they cannot afford to have them in contact with students, yet they can't fire them either.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

OK?

You know I'm specifically talking about tenure, right?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

True, but I would say poor teachers are likely to be fired a lot more often than good teachers that ticked someone off.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

OK?

You know I'm specifically talking about tenure, right?

I was just talking in general about sh!tty teachers

 

[DougK62]

He makes some good points.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

and odds are she will chane jobs within 3 years.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

and odds are she will chane jobs within 3 years.

She hasn't signed a contract yet, and she doesn't plan to with that school system. Since she came in halfway through, she only has to serve out the rest of this semester.

But the kids are horrible. They fight each other, they don't listen, they cuss, they don't give a sh!t about being there, the parents are not a factor, half of the kids live with their grandmother and they steal stuff from the classroom.

I should say that sometimes it isn't always the teachers' fault. If there is no support system at home to help children, it's not going to transfer over with the kids in school. There's only but so much that a teacher can do to get through to a classroom full of kids, but if there is no reinforcement at home (especially at the lower grade levels), it's like fighting a losing battle.

 

[Skel]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I wonder what Jobs will say next.
Maybe he will tell us how to end world hunger?

Nope, he wants make clones.

Steve Jobs Challenges God to Remove DNA Restrictions

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: NFS4
She hasn't signed a contract yet, and she doesn't plan to with that school system. Since she came in halfway through, she only has to serve out the rest of this semester.

But the kids are horrible. They fight each other, they don't listen, they cuss, they don't give a sh!t about being there, the parents are not a factor, half of the kids live with their grandmother and they steal stuff from the classroom.

I should say that sometimes it isn't always the teachers' fault. If there is no support system at home to help children, it's not going to transfer over with the kids in school. There's only but so much that a teacher can do to get through to a classroom full of kids, but if there is no reinforcement at home (especially at the lower grade levels), it's like fighting a losing battle.

Coming from a family with a wide background in education, I definitely agree with this part. Crappy parents raise crappy kids.

- M4H

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

and odds are she will chane jobs within 3 years.

She hasn't signed a contract yet, and she doesn't plan to with that school system. Since she came in halfway through, she only has to serve out the rest of this semester.

But the kids are horrible. They fight each other, they don't listen, they cuss, they don't give a sh!t about being there, the parents are not a factor, half of the kids live with their grandmother and they steal stuff from the classroom.

I should say that sometimes it isn't always the teachers' fault. If there is no support system at home to help children, it's not going to transfer over with the kids in school. There's only but so much that a teacher can do to get through to a classroom full of kids, but if there is no reinforcement at home (especially at the lower grade levels), it's like fighting a losing battle.

So true. I was an education major right up until I got the chance to informally student teach a 3rd grade class. This was in one of the poorest areas of Phoenix. Probably 20/25 students did not have any support at home (as evidenced by the fact that ~8 of them spoke no English, even if they had lived in the US their entire lives).

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
So true. I was an education major right up until I got the chance to informally student teach a 3rd grade class. This was in one of the poorest areas of Phoenix. Probably 20/25 students did not have any support at home (as evidenced by the fact that ~8 of them spoke no English, even if they had lived in the US their entire lives).

I'm actually hoping to go back and be a prof at my old college. Requires none of that annoying "education" study to teach elementary/high school, and if the kids don't want to listen - hey, you've already paid, your loss.

- M4H

 

[oznerol]

Unions are absurd in this day and age.

The Teacher's Union is just about as bad as they come (especially here in NJ).

Unfortunately they are a massive powerhouse - so much so that state legislation essentially revolves around their desires. You'd think it would be the other way around.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

My GF came in mid-way through the school year (late January) to take over for a piss poor teacher that was basically run out by the principal. She was a HORRIBLE teacher who had absolutely NO control over the classroom (1st grade, low-income school).

So needless to say, my GF walked into a nuclear blast zone... and her first full-time teaching position no less.

and odds are she will chane jobs within 3 years.

She hasn't signed a contract yet, and she doesn't plan to with that school system. Since she came in halfway through, she only has to serve out the rest of this semester.

But the kids are horrible. They fight each other, they don't listen, they cuss, they don't give a sh!t about being there, the parents are not a factor, half of the kids live with their grandmother and they steal stuff from the classroom.

I should say that sometimes it isn't always the teachers' fault. If there is no support system at home to help children, it's not going to transfer over with the kids in school. There's only but so much that a teacher can do to get through to a classroom full of kids, but if there is no reinforcement at home (especially at the lower grade levels), it's like fighting a losing battle.

So true. I was an education major right up until I got the chance to informally student teach a 3rd grade class. This was in one of the poorest areas of Phoenix. Probably 20/25 students did not have any support at home (as evidenced by the fact that ~8 of them spoke no English, even if they had lived in the US their entire lives).

You know its bad that out of a classroom of 18 kids, 4 of them regularly come to school without a bookbag Half of the kids don't have phones at home so there's no way to get in contact with the parents. Notes sent home to the parents most often never get there b/c the kids don't give them to their parents or the parents don't care.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: BigJ
Double-edged sword. Protects the legitimately good teachers that may go against the popular opinion in the school, while saving sh!tty teachers.

True, but I would say poor teachers are likely to be fired a lot more often than good teachers that ticked someone off.

You'd have to worry about schools firing good teachers when they face budget cuts (and replace the good teachers with low-payed, bad teachers).

 

[Darkstar757]

Jobs need to STFU. He knows jack Sh@t about teaching or the problems they face. How about they start by paying teachers more money. Then after that setup a administration that doesnt steal from the kids and also allows the teachers to teach and not be baby sitters. Man this comment by him is just dumb and way out of line.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
I wonder what Jobs will say next.
Maybe he will tell us how to end world hunger?

move to america where even the poor are fat

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Jobs need to STFU. He knows jack Sh@t about teaching or the problems they face. How about they start by paying teachers more money. Then after that setup a administration that doesnt steal from the kids and also allows the teachers to teach and not be baby sitters. Man this comment by him is just dumb and way out of line.

You are obviously a teacher, a member of the teachers union, or a friend/family member of someone who is. You are also obviously oblivious as to how jobs work in any other field.

You want teachers to be paid more? I agree. However, not all teachers - it should, without a doubt, be merit-based pay. Just like at any other job - if you perform well, you get properly compensated or look elsewhere for employment. Why should teachers be treated any differently? Union workers demand equal rights for all teachers - including a tiered pay system that is simply absurd.

And I also agree that the administration is quite corrupt. However, pouring money into the system is not the answer - I am really only familiar with my own state's current status (NJ) so I can only give examples from here. In particular, Newark, NJ gets a massive amount of funding for public school systems - so much that it is top ranked for it's $/student funding in the country. However, even with the money, test scores are still declining, and graduation rates are at an all-time low. Fantastic. Let's raise taxes so we can pour more money into a failing system.

Teachers being baby-sitters is not a result of the administration - it is a result of poor parenting. And that has nothing to do with either the school system or the Unions. However, what does is the fact that a teacher who doesn't even attempt to do more than baby-sit students - and merely coast their way to tenure - will get paid the same amount, and is just about guaranteed to not get fired - than a teacher who willingly busts their ass to get through to their students. That is a problem, and that is something that is not seen in the world outside of unions, and that is killing our public school systems.

Competition breeds motivation - and motivation leads to an overall increase in quality. No amount of money will solve that. Removing, or at the very least, restricting the teachers union will.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Darkstar757
Jobs need to STFU. He knows jack Sh@t about teaching or the problems they face. How about they start by paying teachers more money. Then after that setup a administration that doesnt steal from the kids and also allows the teachers to teach and not be baby sitters. Man this comment by him is just dumb and way out of line.

You are obviously a teacher, a member of the teachers union, or a friend/family member of someone who is. You are also obviously oblivious as to how jobs work in any other field.

You want teachers to be paid more? I agree. However, not all teachers - it should, without a doubt, be merit-based pay. Just like at any other job - if you perform well, you get properly compensated or look elsewhere for employment. Why should teachers be treated any differently? Union workers demand equal rights for all teachers - including a tiered pay system that is simply absurd.

And I also agree that the administration is quite corrupt. However, pouring money into the system is not the answer - I am really only familiar with my own state's current status (NJ) so I can only give examples from here. In particular, Newark, NJ gets a massive amount of funding for public school systems - so much that it is top ranked for it's $/student funding in the country. However, even with the money, test scores are still declining, and graduation rates are at an all-time low. Fantastic. Let's raise taxes so we can pour more money into a failing system.

Teachers being baby-sitters is not a result of the administration - it is a result of poor parenting. And that has nothing to do with either the school system or the Unions. However, what does is the fact that a teacher who doesn't even attempt to do more than baby-sit students - and merely coast their way to tenure - will get paid the same amount, and is just about guaranteed to not get fired - than a teacher who willingly busts their ass to get through to their students. That is a problem, and that is something that is not seen in the world outside of unions, and that is killing our public school systems.

Competition breeds motivation - and motivation leads to an overall increase in quality. No amount of money will solve that. Removing, or at the very least, restricting the teachers union will.

I agree. Good teachers need to be paid more. bad teachers need to be fired. if at the current pay we are not getting good teachers maybe increase the pay. but there needs to be a way to fire those that are lazy and suck at teaching.

also the administration and Unions are the main problems. there is far to much corruption in them.

something needs to be done. trouble is we are going in the wrong direction. its not about getting a good solid education anymore. its about molding the student into what the school thinks they should be.

but then that is also i think society's fault. to many parents do not want to parent. either they are overworked or just lazy.

personally i think i big part of the problem is the fact you have 2 parents working now instead of just 1. trying to keep up with the neighbors has really made a negative impact.