• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Apple's 06 Keynote Address.

B

bigben2wardpitt

Senior member
i ran on macs when i was young, till i was 14 or 15, now im 17, before 15 though i was using both, one at each of my parents homes, mac at dads, windows at moms. My imac just crapped out after awhile, it got really slow.

However, at this point my next computer purchase will be a mac. I have been contemplaying for awhile about it, and for what i do, browse hte internet, im, and download music and videos and such, i think mac is more then fine.

I dont understand why more people switch, i dont want to start a mac vs. windows war, but i dont understand why people want to stay with windows that much.

The onyl things i get are

---they are used to it

---its less expensive


other then that, mac beats out windows in a lot of things, and is a lot more innovative, i mean vista, IS a copy of mac os x 10 tiger, so what makes it better?

There are no viruses or anythin like that on a mac, or if they are its minimal, but wiht windows, even if u are talented with computer like many of us are here at this website, u still run into problems... i mean a writer at pcworld even expressed how mad he was at windows--http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2409p154id126159.htm

and its true! And u know it for the most part a lot of u. I mean i have had success with windows, and i dont think it is horrible like many pro mac people do, but there are some obvious big flaws in it.


i dunno im just suprised there is no mac talk here, if ure really a techy kind of guy you might see apple is making strides to being G-R-E-A-T

in this mac=apple, if i say apple, i mean apple, if i say mac i mean apple, i think of them as the same thing because they are, same thing with windows and micrsoft, i use them both interchangly, and wrongly in certain situations.

not tring to start a nasty war here, but some SOPHISTICATED, non-bias (impossible) discussion would be cool and interesting
 
non-bias (impossible) discussion would be cool and interesting
Click to expand...

That's going to be difficult when most Apple users are unable to offer any type of coherent response without direct quotes from Apple.Com. I'm also waiting for the explanation as to why hardcore Mac users have spent the past decade bashing Intel, then rave about the new Intel boxes. Next year when Apple switches to Cyrix those machines will 2x faster than the Intel ones I guess.

The truth of the matter is Winodws XP is dumbed down to the point of absurdity, and new Apple users represent those "frustrated" XP users to ignorant to use that Toys -r- Us operating system, so it doesn't say much about the bell curve here.

I'd have less issues recommending OSX if it weren't for the fact Apple Corp trying to dictate Mac users have to buy their clone box vs one of their choice. When E-machine is selling Core 2 Duo machines for $799 that *rape* that absurd 2.66ghz Mac Pro I guess Apple will have the professor from Gilligan's Island make up some more bencharks in Apple's favor.

I mean i have had success with windows, and i dont think it is horrible like many pro mac people do, but there are some obvious big flaws in it.
Click to expand...

Like, the local digital lab having to run OSX 10.3 and 10.4 on different boxes because their high end printers have so many fvcked up issues with newer revs of OSX and driver compatibility? Yet, all those same printers run just dandy on Windows 2000. big reason I dumped Apple years ago for digital imaging. Tired of being told something is great when it isn't.

if ure really a techy kind of guy you might see apple is making strides to being G-R-E-A-T
Click to expand...

Provide me with the URL of a major ISP or web host using OSX.
 
Apple innovation: take lots of work others have done, and stick a nice but dumbed down UI on it.
Microsoft innovation: take things from a BSD and rename them; or make our own but do it with lots of bugs.

Apple hasn't done any good innovation in quite awhile, and I wouldn't choose OS X if I had an Apple PC. But for some reason, KDE and Gnome decided to follow MS, and MS is shooting themselves, so Apple doesn't need too much to look good. IMO, they all suck (KDE less, because Konqueror is the single most useful GUI app I've ever encountered), and Enlightenment has too small of a team to get things done quickly.

I'd love to know how Vista is a copy of OS X, too; and then how that is not an insult to Apple.

<- Win2k, PCLOS, Debian, SMGL user, occasionally SSHing into Red Hat and CentOS, and sometimes even using a G4 Mac Mini w/ 10.3.
 
I wasn't too impressed with Macs until I tried a more recent version of OS X. Now I have a MacBook as my main computer 😀 It's what I've always wanted - Unix with a nice GUI. KDE & Gnome never really grew on me, honestly.

bigben2wardpitt, I think you hit the nail on the head with your two reasons why people want to stick with Windows. The biggest reason I've run into is expense - when I say the cheapest new Mac is $600 and only comes with a 1.5ghz single-core processor and integrated video, people don't get too excited. They don't see the long-term benefits of having a decked-out Mac because most people are programmed to only notice the bottom line. Personally, I've been working on converting my family over to Macs and that's been a major reason - a nice Dell is almost 1/2 price and they're used to it. But man switching them to Macs has really cut down on my tech support time for them 😉

Cerb, I don't see why people keep saying it has a "dumbed down" interface. More like an easy-access, user-friendly GUI. How is it dumbed down compared to Windows?
 
watch the keynote address, its been obvious sense day one that features they put in vista, are similar to os x! http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2409p154id126159.htm

that guy is right. http://www.lifehacker.com/software/top/...ta-beta-a-lot-like-mac-os-x-179909.php

does this really matteR? no not really, if windows does it and sells it, whatever, who cares, but as lifehacker says, "im just saying"

And in terms of os x being a toys r us OS, i dont understand why u want things to be harder. Why? Why would u WANT to make things harder, theres no sense behind that other then stupid defensive crap u made up. xvsxp.com is an interesting website.
 
Originally posted by: Kaido
a nice Dell is almost 1/2 price and they're used to it
Click to expand...
No, they're just used to it. Nice Dells are no cheaper than building, and rarely even $100 cheaper than the Mac. Every one I've seen at half the cost has been crap. Apple doesn't have anything in their line-up feature-comparable (quite frankly, I think that loses them sales--an upgradable Celeon model could be really helpful, I think).

Cerb, I don't see why people keep saying it has a "dumbed down" interface. More like an easy-access, user-friendly GUI. How is it dumbed down compared to Windows?
Click to expand...
Lacking options in many interfaces for which there's no need to hide them. They should make liberal use of that arrow-thingie in the save and property dialogs everywhere. I'll give the one example that frustrated me the most: Samba. They have a nice GUI utility and all, right? But you can't mount a share to a folder! What good is that? Without that, no X-based app, nor command-line app, will see it. It makes it harder than most Linux or WIndows desktops, each of which have multiple methods in GUIs to do that job.

They could have easily added that as a semi-hidden feature, or implicitly made the object that was the share appear to non-OS X apps as a directoy (or symlink to one). If I try to use OS X for a few days straight, more occur, this is just the one that sticks in my mind, being annoying and something Apple could have taken care of with ease; also being the first major speedbump in my use of OS X (trying to play music with XMMS). The first time I ever actually had to use smbmount from a terminal was in the OS that's supposed to be easiest to use. Hmmm...

Linux: Konqueror, LinNeighborhood, SMB4K
Windows: map network drive, or do the whole junction thing, which I basically included to be able to use a plural 🙂
OS X: open a terminal, and use smbmount, or edit fstab

Oh, and the dock sucks 🙂.

It's all very easy, until I try to actually use it. When I try, it becomes harder to use than Windows or most Linux distros I've tried.


http://www.lifehacker.com/software/top/...ta-beta-a-lot-like-mac-os-x-179909.php
Search: not a new feature, nor was Spotlight. Spotlight was just the first to do a decent job w/o killing your machine (hello, Beagle), beyond Be.

Dashboard: Apple even admitted they ripped this off, and Windows has had it thrid-party for ages.

Sidebar: A poor UI choice.

Home folder thingie: I get that in Windows 2000, it's just not all pretty with the shiny borders. Windows 98 had that, too (and I bet that wasn't the first appearance). OS X did it better than MS, but they didn't copy OS X; they already had it. Konqueror's start page does it even better, as it doesn't take up valuable screen space.

Calendar: ??? I never knew OS X had any calendar, and have no idea what Windows has beyond the date/time one; and if I can help it, I never will.

Application search: OK, search under Start menu. Freakin' genius. Neat, but...meh (unless you're using a desktop Linux. because whoever set up the standard menus obviouslay hates scrolling and multicolumn menus). I've done that before, BTW 🙂. However, it is an issue that will gradually diminish, as software interfaces become more data-centric. Once we get a command-line shell that can "execute" a file by opening it with the apprpriate program (more than just shell scripts!), the whole rest of *n*x systems, including OS X (which is closer than anybody else on the GUI side), will fall in line and it will start 'just working'. With luck, this will happen in 5 years or so. While it may seem odd, such a thing, if done well, would allow for simple and flexible integration all around, much as the current Gnome and KDE backend parts are trying to do.

Basically what I mean is that having an application search in the first place is not a good thing (nice bandaid in OS OX, though), but a sign that there is a problem that needs fixing (organization of applications is too complex and too many layers deep). What's interesting is that OS X has the best bandaid solution for it, yet the least overall severity of the problem.

What Apple has over MS is they are not afraid to take others' work, rather than doing it their own way, and can thus tack software together and get it actually working; they actually care about point releases, rather than overhauling the whole OS, and they don't have near the middle management. The original things Apple did are not around in Vista, AFAIK (Expose, FI, which rocks--what I've seen of the newish task switcher doesn't hold a candle to Expose).

There's nothing internally wrong with XP. Give it Server 2003's core stuff, get WPF going, and then start working towards service pack and Visual Studio N goals. Trying to do everything at once isn't doing well, and it rarely does.

XvsXP: I knew XP Home was evil! It scored 616! 😉

In my mind, Windows, KDE stuff, Gnome stuff, Apple/OS X stuff, all have things they suck at, and things they are good at.
 
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Kaido
a nice Dell is almost 1/2 price and they're used to it
Click to expand...
No, they're just used to it. Nice Dells are no cheaper than building, and rarely even $100 cheaper than the Mac. Every one I've seen at half the cost has been crap. Apple doesn't have anything in their line-up feature-comparable (quite frankly, I think that loses them sales--an upgradable Celeon model could be really helpful, I think).
Click to expand...

Dell - $299 with 2.4ghz Celeron and 17" CRT
Mac Mini - $599 with 1.5ghz Core Solo and no monitor

Now as you customer what they want 😛
 
No argument there. I have certainly met folks complaining that their brand new computer is so slow. If it weren't a Dell with crap software, a moderately poky CPU, and not close to enough RAM to do more than open the IE default MSN home page...

I would not consider anything Celeron that's based off of the P4 to be nice.

Note, also, that I did say I think a Celeron model would help Apple. The Mac Mini certainly has better value, But most people don't need even the hardware they've got in that $300 PC (the Core 2 based desktops may be much better, but last I checked, the Macs were much quieter). Oh, wait, checking it out, they do: more RAM.I bet if Apple decided to have a true low-end, they could probably make a decent $450 box.
 
Originally posted by: bigben2wardpitt
watch the keynote address, its been obvious sense day one that features they put in vista, are similar to os x!
Click to expand...
You get taken in by hype pretty easily! This year's keynote had less silly wows than previous years. You should watch some of the old ones, you'll be in fanboy heaven 😀
Originally posted by: spike spiegal
... most Apple users are unable to offer any type of coherent response without direct quotes from Apple.Com.
Click to expand...
Contrary to what you might believe, not all mac users are raving lunatics. Lots of us use it quite normally because it's just another operating system. The interface, for the most part, isn't dumbed down; it's organized far more coherently than microsoft software. However, I do agree with alot of what cerb had to say. It definitely falls apart with things like smb (and nfs, I'd add). On the whole, I think it makes a fairly usable personal machine, maybe not so much for business (no experience with it there personally).
 
the washington times runs off of all imacs, its a beauty when u walk into their offices, those are the writers though, so they dont do any layout probably. Still though
 
The layout stuff is probably done on Macs, too. Those are not people that care about network sharing, planned backups, security in general, using various non-apple apps for simple things that don't suck, etc.. They need fairly simple things to 'just work', and those things do. Desktop Linuxes are far closer to OS X than Windows on doing that.
 
Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, you are just displaying fanboism and your request for unbiased conversation was screwed from post one.
 
Simply 2 reasons I dont own a mac.

Reason 1) The cost of a good desktop (I dont need a computer built inside a monitor, or a mini pc with little power) is insane, and it still doesn't come with a decent video card.
Reason 2) Vendor lock in. They try to lock everything up into a nice little apple world.

My last computer cost me 1100 bucks to build (its in my sig). It does everything I want as is a lot more powerful then a mac of the same price. I do like the look of the macbooks, but my work got me a inspirion with a dual core proc, a gig of ram, and decent video, and it cost them a good deal less then a similary equiped macbook. Looks dont mean that much to my boss. Plus I doubt if there are a lot of mac tools for deplyment over a large infastructure, pushing applications to desktops, etc. It would be a pain to have to manage each mac one by one.

Reguardless, I'd still run linux on it anyways, so why waste the money. However, I would buy a macOS if they put it out for 150.00 or so.
 
Originally posted by: bigben2wardpitt
yea and mac will never lower their prices, the have this feeling that they can charge that, they appeal to a different part of the market.
Click to expand...
Or in "real speak": computers cost money. Custom motherboards cost money. Laptop parts cost money. Software development costs money. Cool designs like the iMac, and new Mac Pro tower, cost money (yes, iMac, too, but that's not too special 🙂).

Macs really aren't overpriced. They're competitively priced for what you get--they just don't have a Celeron D with too little RAM to sell in a big case with a standard power supply. Apple might have bigger margins than the other guys, but they are indeed offering something different--and not worse.
 
i like the dock, even more than the start menu. but then i always put my most used programs on the quick start bar in windows, so it's not really that much of a stretch.

yea and mac will never lower their prices, the have this feeling that they can charge that, they appeal to a different part of the market.
Click to expand...

apple makes their money on the hardware. if they only sold an OS they'd have to double the price or more just to stick around. the last time they tried letting other people make "macs" it about killed them. they make pretty nice equipment and sell it for a reasonable price. these days that price is getting closer and closer to similar equipped pcs. now if they'd stop buying sony batteries the world would be a better place.

That's going to be difficult when most Apple users are unable to offer any type of coherent response without direct quotes from Apple.Com. I'm also waiting for the explanation as to why hardcore Mac users have spent the past decade bashing Intel, then rave about the new Intel boxes. Next year when Apple switches to Cyrix those machines will 2x faster than the Intel ones I guess.
Click to expand...

as if this doesn't happen on the pc side. pc folk have been bashing intel in favor of amd for quite awhile now, and then conroe drops and all of a sudden intel is the "in" thing again.

the intel mac boxes still have problems anyway, hope this gets fixed because i'd love a macbook pro, but i'm still wary of the issues early adopters have been having.
 
i have a mac... 350mhz of awesomeness 😉 i just got it for free. its going in my spare bedroom so guests can use it to browse the web. i also got an ipod for free, so i use the mac for itunes. amazing!

i think macs are pretty. not as pretty as my PC though 🙂 and i cant swap hardware between the two. there goes my mac media center...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top