Apple, your integration of SMS/MMS/iMessage sucks. Either fix it or separate them.

[Eug]

I'm really getting frustrated with Apple's implementation of iMessage. Because they've integrated it with SMS and MMS, and haven't done a good job of it, it can lead to all sorts of problems.

The biggest of course many already know about, which is that if you sell your iPhone and buy an Android phone and forget to turn off iMessage, you suddenly will never receive any SMS messages at all. Fixing it after the fact is a royal PITA.

Today I spent too much of my time troubleshooting this with my wife's phone. Somehow after an update, iMessage got turned on (whereas it was off before). We turned it back off again a while ago, but all of a sudden she could no longer receive photo MMSes from some people after turning off iMessage. She'd receive either nothing, or else would get SMS with no photo attached. We checked and ALL of her devices had iMessage off, but no dice. We tried cycling iMessage on/off on her phone, and cycling iMessage off/on from the senders phone, and reboots, but still no dice. If we kept iMessage off for both the sender and the receiver, she got MMS messages fine. However, if we turned on iMessage for the sender (and kept iMessage off for my wife), the sender's phone would always try to send an iMessage. That would fail, and then it would send an SMS without the photo.

I tried deleting the message threads. Same result.

The only way I fixed this was to delete my wife's contact from the sender's phone, and then re-entered all the data. Then MMS worked.

Unfortunately, now the sender is encountering a similar problem. Even though her iMessage is ON, iMessages with photos from other people are failing to get to her, and are being resent as SMS without photos. What a fsckin' PITA.

Really Apple, this is just fsckin' brain dead. Your iMessage + SMS/MMS integration royally sucks.

I can only hope that iOS 8 corrects this crap, but I'm not optimistic. You've been doing this for how long now, Apple, and you still can't get it right???

if iOS 8 doesn't fix this, maybe it's time to just separate iMessage from SMS/MMS completely. It's far too frustrating.

 

[JavaMomma]

Sounds frustrating, can't say I've ever had any problems like what you describe. iPhone to iPhone I personally like PhotoStream if it's more then a couple of photos.

Are you doing iPhone to Android (which used to be an iPhone?). It's actually confusing reading what has happened exactly. Either way I think Apple can work to a bit harder to smooth some of the rough edges of iMessage out.

Realistically you can probably just read about iOS 8 beta and know if there are any changes.

 

[smackababy]

Sounds frustrating, can't say I've ever had any problems like what you describe. iPhone to iPhone I personally like PhotoStream if it's more then a couple of photos.

Are you doing iPhone to Android (which used to be an iPhone?). It's actually confusing reading what has happened exactly. Either way I think Apple can work to a bit harder to smooth some of the rough edges of iMessage out.

Realistically you can probably just read about iOS 8 beta and know if there are any changes.

What happens is if you go from an iPhone to an Android phone, all iPhones that have you saved as an iMessage user, will continue to attempt to send everything to you via iMessage. You won't receive any of these messages nor any notice of it failing to be received.

I haven't had this problem, or any iMessage problem, (mostly because nobody I would ever message would move from iPhone to Android, obviously because Android sucks! jk >_< ), but I've heard of it.

The problem with this is, how does Apple know you've switched from an iMessage phone without some communication with the Android phone? They could have a blanket rule where if you don't hit the iMessage servers for x number of hours / days, it flags you for all SMS. I believe they already have this, it is just a longer period of time than most would like.

 

[Eug]

The problem here is even if you turn off iMessage completely on all iOS devices, sometimes it still tries to send iMessages, and then of course it fails.

The only way I was able to fix this was to delete the receiver's contact from the sender's phone and then re-enter the contact information. Obviously, this is impossible in most circumstances, and is totally brain dead on Apple's part.

Plus, this "fix" doesn't guarantee it is fixed for all senders.

---

BTW, I've heard there is a blanket rule as you describe, but it's 45-90 DAYS. WTF?

 

[Spineshank]

I believe you need to disassociate the device from your/her iTunes account. Still a pain. I know what you were dealing with. My last job, sometimes I would test Android phones with my sim.

 

[Eug]

The other pain is the sender started getting the same issue but her iMessages was actually on.

 

[Rottie]

I'm really getting frustrated with Apple's implementation of iMessage. Because they've integrated it with SMS and MMS, and haven't done a good job of it, it can lead to all sorts of problems.

The biggest of course many already know about, which is that if you sell your iPhone and buy an Android phone and forget to turn off iMessage, you suddenly will never receive any SMS messages at all. Fixing it after the fact is a royal PITA.

Today I spent too much of my time troubleshooting this with my wife's phone. Somehow after an update, iMessage got turned on (whereas it was off before). We turned it back off again a while ago, but all of a sudden she could no longer receive photo MMSes from some people after turning off iMessage. She'd receive either nothing, or else would get SMS with no photo attached. We checked and ALL of her devices had iMessage off, but no dice. We tried cycling iMessage on/off on her phone, and cycling iMessage off/on from the senders phone, and reboots, but still no dice. If we kept iMessage off for both the sender and the receiver, she got MMS messages fine. However, if we turned on iMessage for the sender (and kept iMessage off for my wife), the sender's phone would always try to send an iMessage. That would fail, and then it would send an SMS without the photo.

I tried deleting the message threads. Same result.

The only way I fixed this was to delete my wife's contact from the sender's phone, and then re-entered all the data. Then MMS worked.

Unfortunately, now the sender is encountering a similar problem. Even though her iMessage is ON, iMessages with photos from other people are failing to get to her, and are being resent as SMS without photos. What a fsckin' PITA.

Really Apple, this is just fsckin' brain dead. Your iMessage + SMS/MMS integration royally sucks.

I can only hope that iOS 8 corrects this crap, but I'm not optimistic. You've been doing this for how long now, Apple, and you still can't get it right???

if iOS 8 doesn't fix this, maybe it's time to just separate iMessage from SMS/MMS completely. It's far too frustrating.

I am sorry to hear your frustration. I am sure if Steve Jobs still alive he would feel your pain. I know he want every iOS softwares to be perfect.

Rottie, don't thread crap
-ViRGE

 

[ponyo]

The problem I also have is I occasionally get charged for text when I sent it as iMessage. It's highly annoying problem that costs me money. So I try to stick to Google Voice text whenever possible even if I know they have an iPhone.

 

[Spineshank]

The problem I also have is I occasionally get charged for text when I sent it as iMessage. It's highly annoying problem that costs me money. So I try to stick to Google Voice text whenever possible even if I know they have an iPhone.

You can turn that off.

 

[smackababy]

You can turn that off.

I don't know his carrier, but most have an option that will block all messages that would cost you money. I do know sometimes iMessage will fail to send an iMessage, send an SMS, and then send the iMessage successfully.

 

[Spineshank]

I don't know his carrier, but most have an option that will block all messages that would cost you money. I do know sometimes iMessage will fail to send an iMessage, send an SMS, and then send the iMessage successfully.

On the phone. Under Messages. You can turn off send as text if imessage is unavailable.

 

[Phynaz]

What's the point of iMessage anyway? Doesn't everyone have unlimited messaging now?

 

[Eug]

Not everyone has unlimited messaging, and for those who don't MMS can get really expensive. MMS isn't really good if you're roaming either. iMessage gets around this by using WiFi. Also, iMessage has the added advantage of working on your non-phone devices.

That said, one of the reasons I don't use iMessage is because I have Canada-wide unlimited SMS and MMS, to both domestic and international sites. That, and because of iMessage integration issues.

Interestingly, iOS 8 is supposed to support SMS on computers and non-cellular iPads. That should prove interesting.

 

[ponyo]

On the phone. Under Messages. You can turn off send as text if imessage is unavailable.

It's always been off. It still happens.

EDIT: I bet it's because the sender of the text doesn't have the iMessage turned off if it's unavailable. And they won't because they have unlimited texting plan. So I'm charged the texting fee to receive the failed iMessage which is then sent to me as normal text. And the sender thinks he/she sent the free iMessage. It's a crappy system.

 

[ponyo]

What's the point of iMessage anyway? Doesn't everyone have unlimited messaging now?

I've never had messaging plan except for one year when I used Straight Talk which offered unlimited. I've always used the free Google Voice text and still do. My current AT&T plan has no included text and it cost me 30 cents per each text. I'm not paying $20 extra a month for unlimited text when Google Voice is free.

 

[Eug]

Interestingly, iOS 8 is supposed to support SMS on computers and non-cellular iPads. That should prove interesting.

Note the green colour.

However, it's not been at all reliable in the betas, according to various posts around the net. I'm not optimistic for this working well any time soon, but if this eventually does work, it essentially kills 95% of the advantage that iMessage ever had. Even more justification to keep iMessage deactivated all the time.

 

[ViRGE]

I still don't understand why the "Send as SMS" option can even be controlled. It should be on at all times for iPhones.

 

[Tegeril]

Why do you think that? Not every use case is the one that is "just use SMS".

I have an old plan from AT&T.

450 minutes, 200 texts, unlimited data.

Why would, after 200 texts, I want to just keep paying AT&T when iMessages are free? Why would I not just wait a little bit until I had appropriate service to send an iMessage if iMessage fails?

I pay as little money to AT&T as I possibly can as it is.

 

[smackababy]

It's always been off. It still happens.

EDIT: I bet it's because the sender of the text doesn't have the iMessage turned off if it's unavailable. And they won't because they have unlimited texting plan. So I'm charged the texting fee to receive the failed iMessage which is then sent to me as normal text. And the sender thinks he/she sent the free iMessage. It's a crappy system.

That isn't something Apple can control. But, again, you can turn off messages that will cost you money via your carrier. At least, that is how it is on major carriers. Your issue has less to do with Apple, and more to do with the fact the phone company is able to charge you because someone else decided to send you (without your consent) an SMS message.


And, even the main issue with iMessage, there is little Apple can actually do to fix it without the user intervention. Google isn't going to allow Apple to put in code that, upon number activation on Android, notifies them to remove the contact as an iMessage capable number on everyone else's phone.

iMessage itself is a great concept. It is available unrestricted from carriers (and you can use it just on Wifi) and I believe they encrypt their messages similar to how BBM works. Although, I am unsure how unreadable they are by the NSA. I would assume no privacy, but I always assume that over any public or unsecured communication method.

 

[nickbits]

What's the point of iMessage anyway? Doesn't everyone have unlimited messaging now?

International, for one. Most of the people I text are in Canada.

 

[Eug]

And, even the main issue with iMessage, there is little Apple can actually do to fix it without the user intervention. Google isn't going to allow Apple to put in code that, upon number activation on Android, notifies them to remove the contact as an iMessage capable number on everyone else's phone.

iMessage itself is a great concept. It is available unrestricted from carriers (and you can use it just on Wifi) and I believe they encrypt their messages similar to how BBM works. Although, I am unsure how unreadable they are by the NSA. I would assume no privacy, but I always assume that over any public or unsecured communication method.

Apple could give us more control as it pertains to our individual devices.

If we don't want iMessage on our phones, and we have iMessage turned off on all of our iOS devices, the sender should NEVER be allowed try to send an iMessage. But Apple's servers still do allow iMessages to be sent from time to time. In my case, I triple checked. All of our iOS devices had iMessages completely off.

Also, if we have a phone stolen, there should be a setting somewhere to turn off iMessages for that device from our iTunes account.

Unfortunately there isn't, and that's brain dead.

 

[sourceninja]

When my wife switched to android all her friends suddenly couldn't text her. Turned out they were all using imessage (including her). They all had to remove and re-add her to their contact lists.

 

[ViRGE]

Why do you think that? Not every use case is the one that is "just use SMS".

I have an old plan from AT&T.

450 minutes, 200 texts, unlimited data.

Why would, after 200 texts, I want to just keep paying AT&T when iMessages are free? Why would I not just wait a little bit until I had appropriate service to send an iMessage if iMessage fails?

I pay as little money to AT&T as I possibly can as it is.

"Send as SMS" actives SMS fallback. SMS is only primary if iMessage is disabled.

The point being that iPhones should never "lose" messages as Eug experiences. If they can't get a message off via iMessage, they need to drop down to SMS and send it that way.

 

[weevilone]

"Send as SMS" actives SMS fallback. SMS is only primary if iMessage is disabled.

The point being that iPhones should never "lose" messages as Eug experiences. If they can't get a message off via iMessage, they need to drop down to SMS and send it that way.

I'm not exactly sure why, but this doesn't seem to fix it. It should work if the person disassociates the phone from iMessage before getting rid of it, but people don't remember to do it. It's also possible that the messages deliver to the OSX client, an iPad, or whatever even if the person isn't checking messages there. We need to be able to log into iCloud on the web and control this stuff so it's not device dependent.

I attend a ton of hockey games and it's the oddest thing. If I have iMessage on and try to text from the stadium it just fails even if SMS is active as fallback. However if I turn iMessage off and send a text then it works fine. It's really not 100% effective.

 

[suklee]

What's the point of iMessage anyway? Doesn't everyone have unlimited messaging now?

Where I live, it's free to send SMSs if both users are on the same carrier, otherwise there is a charge (approx. US$ 0.065 per text).