http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-06/htc-patents-challenged-by-apple-probably-valid-judge-sayApple Inc. (AAPL) may face a difficult task invalidating two HTC Corp. (2498) patents for data transmission in wireless devices, a U.S. trade judge said at a trial that could lead to import bans on the newest iPad and next version of the iPhone.
Clear and convincing means something to me, U.S. International Trade Commission Judge Thomas Pender said yesterday in Washington, referring to the legal standard in determining that a patent shouldnt have been issued. I have to be pretty darn certain a U.S. patent is invalid.
HTC accuses Apple of infringing two patents it owns for ways to reliably transmit a larger amount of data. Taoyuan, Taiwan-based HTC said the patented methods are critical to the 4G technology known as LTE, or long-term evolution, that allow faster downloads.
A victory could let HTC seek an import ban of the latest iPad and even the newest iPhone, if it uses LTE when its unveiled as early as next week. That could give the Taiwanese handset maker leverage to force a settlement with Apple, which has made its own patent-infringement claims against HTC.
The global smartphone market grew 62 percent last year to $219.1 billion, according to Bloomberg Industries, and consumers are demanding ever-faster downloads of movies, music and websites on what has become more a handheld computer than a simple phone. Carriers such as AT&T Inc. are converting to faster LTE technology, and network-equipment maker Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO) projects that worldwide mobile-data traffic will soar 18- fold by 2016.
LTE Advantage
HTC, which started as a contract manufacturer and now makes devices under its own brand, has fought to increase its market share after losing customers to Apple and Samsung Electronics Co. (005930) Adding LTE capabilities to go up against Samsungs 4G phones is one way the company hopes to differentiate itself from other phones that run on Android, the most popular platform for mobile phones and the chief rival to Apples iPhone.
The newest iPad, which went on sale in the U.S. in March, is the first from Apple that runs on LTE wireless networks. Apple is expected to introduce its newest iPhone on Sept. 12, and HTC can argue that it should be subject to an import ban because it was in production during the pre-trial investigative portion of the patent case.
When Pender asked whether Apple would be announcing its newest iPhone next week, Apple lawyer Michael McKeon of Fish & Richardson in Washington said he wasnt told of the companys plans. It will be thinner and the screen bigger? the judge asked. McKeon would only say, Thats what the blogs are saying.
Patent Battles
Apple and HTC have been embroiled in patent battles over features in smartphones since March 2010, when Cupertino, California-based Apple filed its first infringement claim at the trade agency. The case at trial yesterday, and an earlier case HTC lost at the commission, were filed in retaliation against Apple, McKeon said.
Apple contends phones by HTC and other competitors that run on Google Inc. (GOOG)s Android operating system copy features that make the iPhone unique. The March 2010 complaint against HTC has spread to a global war involving Apple and Android-handset manufacturers that is being contested in courts on four continents.
HTC lawyer Tom Jarvis of Finnegan Henderson said the company was the first to sell Android and 4G devices and one of the first with touch screens.
HTC is an innovator, Jarvis told the judge. Its no Johnny-come-lately.
Patent Purchase
In this case, though, HTC acquired the patents at issue in April 2011, around the same time it began selling its first LTE phone, the Thunderbolt. The patents are part of a portfolio HTC bought for $75 million from ADC Telecommunications Inc.
I dont care if they bought these patents to sue you or not, Pender told McKeon. They are a property right.
In a court filing, HTC said it bought the patents, which ADC said were being infringed by Apple, to protect itself and its customers from these aggressive tactics and to preserve its ability to compete in the United States.
Yesterdays testimony, much of which wasnt open to the public, focused on whether HTC is using the technology, a requirement to win the case under trade law.
LTE products were particularly important to our strategy in 2011, when the complaint was filed, said Martin Fichter, HTC Americas vice president of product and operations. Were a pioneer in that field.
Altered Allegations
HTC has altered its allegations in the case, McKeon said. It initially claimed the patents covered Wi-Fi technology and now says they cover 4G, he said. McKeon argued that the patents, which relate to work that began in the 1990s, dont cover mobile technology at all.
The case on trial yesterday, filed in August 2011, initially included five patents that HTC obtained from Mountain View, California-based Google. Pender threw out that part of the case, saying HTC didnt have adequate ownership control under the terms of its agreement with Google. The commission in July upheld that decision.
Pender said yesterday he probably wont side with Apples argument that HTC didnt have proper ownership rights of the two former ADC patents.
Apple struggles to overturn HTCs LTE patents
- Thread starter lothar
- Start date
I read somewhere online that Samsung also has some patents for LTE that they are sitting on waiting for Apple to come out with an LTE iphone
Belegost
Golden Member
- Feb 20, 2001
- 1,807
- 19
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Does anyone actually have the patent numbers being argued - after 20 minutes of searching the best I have found is that they end in 219 and 944.
Overall it seems like it would be strange for HTC to sue Apple over LTE since they are both using the same LTE baseband from Qualcomm.
Overall it seems like it would be strange for HTC to sue Apple over LTE since they are both using the same LTE baseband from Qualcomm.
Bateluer
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2001
- 27,730
- 8
- 0
Qualcomm owns a large percentage of HTC stock and has executives sitting on HTC's board.
Yeah, it seems fairly vague what the article is trying to convey compared to what the LTE RRC layer does. My best guess was HARQ, as it gives some efficiency. Here's a related HTC patent:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8156407.html
boomhower
Diamond Member
- Sep 13, 2007
- 7,228
- 19
- 81
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
- 6,210
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Because only Apple proponents are acting like idiots on this forum...
Wouldn't most relevant LTE patents be covered by FRAND? The article linked is more speculative than anything so it's hard to say.
If the patents Samsung plans to use are FRAND patents, then Samsung will face the same scrutiny in the US and Europe that it is currently facing by suing Apple using FRAND patents.
Not to mention Samsung trying to double dip by suing Apple for patent infringement on parts which Apple bought from Qualcomm that is already licensed. Wouldn't it stand to reason most of the LTE technologies Apple plans to use would be from companies like Qualcomm who already hold, or at least licenses, the necessary LTE patents. Regulators everywhere (except Korea where the judge, jury and executioner belongs to Samsung) are not going to be happy.
If this helps HTC survive, I'm all for it.
If HTC doesn't start making phones the public want, they will start getting slaughter.
Last thing we need is Samsung to monopolize the Android segment.
If HTC doesn't start making phones the public want, they will start getting slaughter.
Last thing we need is Samsung to monopolize the Android segment.
Belegost
Golden Member
- Feb 20, 2001
- 1,807
- 19
- 81
It's hard for me to say much, but short story, that patent would not be applicable.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
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Looking at this from a larger perspective..cell phones can only operate because operators lease spectrum from the people as a whole.
Because LTE is tightly tied to the use of that spectrum, a company is going to have a hard time not fairly offering licensing, which is my impression of what Samsung is trying to do.
I expect this effort will fail.
Because LTE is tightly tied to the use of that spectrum, a company is going to have a hard time not fairly offering licensing, which is my impression of what Samsung is trying to do.
I expect this effort will fail.
Probably the most important part of the case (regardless of the outcome) is that it took this long and it's still not final. That means any new suit from Samsung is going to take a long while to get sorted and Apple will be selling phones all the while. It's about the same as Apple's case, where even though they won, it was only against older models that aren't being sold.
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