Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,825
1,396
126
M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:

Screen-Shot-2021-10-18-at-1.20.47-PM.jpg

M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:


M1 Ultra discussion here:


M2 discussion here:


Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:


M4 Family discussion here:

 
Last edited:

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
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Apple M4's CPU will be the biggest jump in M series history, since the M1. It will feature the new Quasar P-core, which brings a colossal 25% performance improvement (+30% IPC and clock regression). The first clean sheet core design since Firestorm. The Pulsar E-core, is a more modest iteration of Sawtooth, with it's focus mainly on efficiency. These improvements, combined with the new 4P+6E CPU core configuration, will give the M4 a whopping 40% improvement in multi-core performance.

Source: My fantasy
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,784
4,745
136
Why would google spend more money to spend more money?

Google profits off the search deal with Apple via their search ad business. Do you think that AI search won't have the same business model? That's the only business Google knows. Every business they run that's not advertising collectively loses money, and that's always been the case for them.
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
2,205
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106

"Game emulators have managed to sneak onto the App Store several times over the years by using hidden functionality, but Apple has not explicitly permitted them until now. The rule change that allows for game emulators is worldwide, as is support for apps that offer mini apps and mini games."

game Emulators are allowed now on App Store
 

Apokalupt0

Junior Member
Feb 14, 2024
11
10
41
Apple M4's CPU will be the biggest jump in M series history, since the M1. It will feature the new Quasar P-core, which brings a colossal 25% performance improvement (+30% IPC and clock regression). The first clean sheet core design since Firestorm. The Pulsar E-core, is a more modest iteration of Sawtooth, with it's focus mainly on efficiency. These improvements, combined with the new 4P+6E CPU core configuration, will give the M4 a whopping 40% improvement in multi-core performance.

Source: My fantasy
Do we have any solid source on what the expected perf increase is with M4 and A18 Pro?
Other than random Geekbench 6 leaks which are hard to believe?
 

GC2:CS

Member
Jul 6, 2018
31
19
81
Do we have any solid source on what the expected perf increase is with M4 and A18 Pro?
Other than random Geekbench 6 leaks which are hard to believe?
Twitter acount @tech_reve posted some scores. +25% single and multi for the A18 Pro vs A17 Pro
+35% GPU as well.
They supposedly predicted A17 correctly but this time got taken down immediately.

Also A18 2P+5E+5G A18 Pro 2P+6E+6G.
I stikl think they should sacrifice a P core for the cheaper version.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,950
2,376
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Twitter acount @tech_reve posted some scores. +25% single and multi for the A18 Pro vs A17 Pro
+35% GPU as well.
They supposedly predicted A17 correctly but this time got taken down immediately.
I don't recall him leaking this.
Also A18 2P+5E+5G A18 Pro 2P+6E+6G.
6G???
I stikl think they should sacrifice a P core for the cheaper version.
Nope. It better be;
A18 Pro : 2P+6E
A18 : 2P+4E
 
Jul 27, 2020
20,040
13,738
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Looks like those M3 macbooks helped with sales for Apple.
Without a breakdown by chip type, we can't be sure. What does M3 bring to the table that would cause a sudden uptick in uptake by consumers? Hardware raytracing in the GPU? Are Mac users now running the 3DMark Solar Bay raytracing benchmark on their Macs? Are Apple stores wooing customers by showing the Macs running this benchmark? Are Apple stores/geniuses actively demoing games on the new Macs? Anyone have concrete answers?
 
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poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Without a breakdown by chip type, we can't be sure. What does M3 bring to the table that would cause a sudden uptick in uptake by consumers? Hardware raytracing in the GPU? Are Mac users now running the 3DMark Solar Bay raytracing benchmark on their Macs? Are Apple stores wooing customers by showing the Macs running this benchmark? Are Apple stores/geniuses actively demoing games on the new Macs? Anyone have concrete answers?
It could be users from M1 or older Intel Macs and some might be new customers.

The M3 series GPU is big step up from M1. Blender 4 does support M3 hardware acceleration of Ray tracing which brings huge speed increases compared to M1/2.

The M3 Max CPU is the best mobile CPU out there. Maybe software companies for code compiling? They like to hand out laptops.
Reviewers also highlighted the M3 Max too that may caused an uptick of users buying M3 Max instead of M3 Pro.

Other than that no major improvements. This is just my speculation.
 
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junjie1475

Junior Member
Apr 9, 2024
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still want to know how he got that...it would have to come from inside Apple because there's no way reverse engineering can get that level of detail.
Late reply, but you can. I helped them do the reverse engineering on the A17 pro, I used various ways to measure the size of different structures and identify different types of functional units. junjie1475/iOS-microbench (github.com) Here is the code I used to reverse engineer the A17 Pro. But indeed there are a few obstacles to reverse engineering the architecture on the iOS platform, for example, you only can obtain the cycle counter and instructions counter on iOS, so you can't do some other interesting tests like branch prediction penalty/accuracy, cache miss...etc
Also, Apple never publicized any of its microarchitecture details. Perhaps I should write a blog on how to do those stuff.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
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Late reply, but you can. I helped them do the reverse engineering on the A17 pro,
Hey! You are the Junjie that Geekerwan mentioned in their A17 Pro video
Screenshot_20240409_120836_YouTube.jpg
I used various ways to measure the size of different structures and identify different types of functional units. junjie1475/iOS-microbench (github.com) Here is the code I used to reverse engineer the A17 Pro. But indeed there are a few obstacles to reverse engineering the architecture on the iOS platform, for example, you only can obtain the cycle counter and instructions counter on iOS, so you can't do some other interesting tests like branch prediction penalty/accuracy, cache miss...etc
Very clever.
Screenshot_20240409_120740_YouTube.jpg
Also, Apple never publicized any of its microarchitecture details. Perhaps I should write a blog on how to do those stuff.
Perhaps you should, indeed.
 

junjie1475

Junior Member
Apr 9, 2024
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poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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junjie1475, do you have any idea why the P core is named Coll?

As far I am aware Coll is also the codename for the SoC itself. Normally, Apple uses a codename like Everest, Firestorm etc for their P cores and not the SoC name.

Yes, but it takes time. Maybe I should wait for the next Apple silicon release.
Maybe, Anandtech can hire you? Its been a long time since Anandtech had a mobile arch deepdive. You are more than qualified.
 
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junjie1475

Junior Member
Apr 9, 2024
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junjie1475, do you have any idea why the P core is named Coll?

As far I am aware Coll is also the codename for the SoC itself. Normally, Apple uses a codename like Everest, Firestorm etc for their P cores and not the SoC name.
Maybe Apple just changed its naming convention, maybe they decided to stop exposing their microarchitecture name...etc I don't know. Also, apple names its SoC with a format like Txxx(T6000, T8020etc). Once I checked Apple's device driver tree for the iphone15 pro, surprisingly its P/E core used the same name as A16(i.e. Everest and Sawtooth).
Maybe, Anandtech can hire you? Its been a long time since Anandtech had a mobile arch deepdive. You are more than qualified.
There are so many people who are far better than me, this is just my hobby to investigate architecture stuff. Also, I am still in grade10, so better to complete my studies first :)
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Maybe Apple just changed its naming convention, maybe they decided to stop exposing their microarchitecture name...etc I don't know. Also, apple names its SoC with a format like Txxx(T6000, T8020etc). Once I checked Apple's device driver tree for the iphone15 pro, surprisingly its P/E core used the same name as A16(i.e. Everest and Sawtooth).
Interesting, I guess we have to wait till the A18 to see if its a new convention by Apple or an anomaly.
There are so many people who are far better than me, this is just my hobby to investigate architecture stuff. Also, I am still in grade10, so better to complete my studies first :)
Oh wow, nice. You chose a fun hobby!
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,950
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Maybe Apple just changed its naming convention, maybe they decided to stop exposing their microarchitecture name...etc I don't know. Also, apple names its SoC with a format like Txxx(T6000, T8020etc). Once I checked Apple's device driver tree for the iphone15 pro, surprisingly its P/E core used the same name as A16(i.e. Everest and Sawtooth).
Yes, this has been known.
There are so many people who are far better than me, this is just my hobby to investigate architecture stuff. Also, I am still in grade10, so better to complete my studies first :)
snow-rabbit-wow.gif
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,950
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If M4 doesn't bring a major performance uplift in terms of CPU (mainly ST), then Apple is at risk of falling behind their x86 rivals.

What with the rumours that Zen4 is a 40-50% uplift...