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Apple pulls out of India

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beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
1
0
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody? Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money? If Apple is doing this for a symbolic reason, then too bad for them. It won't win them any more fans.
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
There may be communication problems at Dell, that much I admit. But we are much better when it comes to actually solving problems. Dell is not a idiot to keep shooting itself in the foot.
Oh BS. I work for a Vendor that supplies peripherals to Dell that have extremely high attach rates. In addition to delivering the software and eveloping the silicon, we need to deliver 'tech support support' that are basically scripts that we write that go through all the foreseeable common problems.

There is no 'intelligent troubleshooting' of anything in any of Dell's india call centers, for SMB and home. The level one support is ALL scripts. To not abide by the scripts is to get fired.

This is not to say that indians aren't capable of problem solving because we all know that's BS, 1/3 of my company's developers and 1/4 my graduating class are of Indian descent, but the crap that goes on in the Dell call centers is anything but.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody? Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money? If Apple is doing this for a symbolic reason, then too bad for them. It won't win them any more fans.
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
There may be communication problems at Dell, that much I admit. But we are much better when it comes to actually solving problems. Dell is not a idiot to keep shooting itself in the foot.
...AN idiot...

Thanks, these posts angered me enough to lose focus.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody?

Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money?
Awwwwww some of your rich America hating buddies lose money???
Liberal behaviour at its finest.

Understanding and all that talk about one humanity until the ****** hits their own fan.

Then its God save America from these evil job robbing Indians.

 

kalster

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2002
7,355
6
81
You would be surprised at how much development is done in India. Its actually high quality work for a much lower cost. Intel, MS, lot of telecommunication companies do quite a lot of development in India. You only hear the call center side of is which is very minimal and not the main thing.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,996
14
81
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody? Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money? If Apple is doing this for a symbolic reason, then too bad for them. It won't win them any more fans.
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
There may be communication problems at Dell, that much I admit. But we are much better when it comes to actually solving problems. Dell is not a idiot to keep shooting itself in the foot.
Listen, if there is a comunnication problem, that is a SERIOUS problem when it comes to support. I put in support calls with Cisco and get the same sh!t. Now there is no doubt that the Cisco rep knows his sh!t, but if he can't communicate the information to me, his knowledge is worthless to me. And let me tell you, supportt calls to Cisco ain't cheap.

And yes, get rig of the communication problems and Dells support is still sh!t. We've got the super colossal ultimate business support and it is AWFUL! AWFUL I tell you. That is the MAIN reason we won't buy from Dell. A cheaper product only takes you so far.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,996
14
81
Originally posted by: kalster
You would be surprised at how much development is done in India. Its actually high quality work for a much lower cost. Intel, MS, lot of telecommunication companies do quite a lot of development in India. You only hear the call center side of is which is very minimal and not the main thing.
If they want to build equpiment, they can do it in China, India or whatever. But if I need some support, I better get someone on the line that I don't have to strain myslef to understand. That is so freakin' irritating. I'm paying for the support, quit giving me substandard crap!
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody? Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money? If Apple is doing this for a symbolic reason, then too bad for them. It won't win them any more fans.
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
There may be communication problems at Dell, that much I admit. But we are much better when it comes to actually solving problems. Dell is not a idiot to keep shooting itself in the foot.
Listen, if there is a comunnication problem, that is a SERIOUS problem when it comes to support. I put in support calls with Cisco and get the same sh!t. Now there is no doubt that the Cisco rep knows his sh!t, but if he can't communicate the information to me, his knowledge is worthless to me. And let me tell you, supportt calls to Cisco ain't cheap.

And yes, get rig of the communication problems and Dells support is still sh!t. We've got the super colossal ultimate business support and it is AWFUL! AWFUL I tell you. That is the MAIN reason we won't buy from Dell. A cheaper product only takes you so far.

I'am a Dell technician from India and I have seen the scores ranking American and Indian support centres on a scale. Indian sites rank higher than American sites.

I have seen the scale of resolutions provided by many American techs and they suck ass.
 

kalster

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2002
7,355
6
81
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: kalster
You would be surprised at how much development is done in India. Its actually high quality work for a much lower cost. Intel, MS, lot of telecommunication companies do quite a lot of development in India. You only hear the call center side of is which is very minimal and not the main thing.
If they want to build equpiment, they can do it in China, India or whatever. But if I need some support, I better get someone on the line that I don't have to strain myslef to understand. That is so freakin' irritating. I'm paying for the support, quit giving me substandard crap!
IMO the intelligence level/knowledge of call center folks is just about the same, the difference is when its a CSR from India you have to deal with the accent (or lack of) and when its a CSR from here you dont.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,297
4
81
Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
An article was linked about a month ago at majorgeeks.com.

It stated that many companies were moving phone support from India to Ireland because
of communication problems causing customer complaints.


...Galvanized
That can't be any better. I work with an Irishman who's been in the US for like 10 years and I still can't understand a word he says.
 

Atrail

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
4,326
0
0
Originally posted by: Braznor
I'am a Dell technician from India and I have seen the scores ranking American and Indian support centres on a scale. Indian sites rank higher than American sites.

I have seen the scale of resolutions provided by many American techs and they suck ass.
LoL, enuff said.
 

wasssup

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2000
3,142
0
0
Having worked at Vonage doing tech support and taking calls (i still can't believe i got suckered in over there, with them telling me that i *HAD* to take calls for 6 months before I could move to the NOC Engineer position I applied for...only to find out they lied to all applicants), I dealt with a lot of a-hole callers.

Are indians hard to understand? Not really...I mean, I can imagine some are, but most are pretty understandable. The problem is that the "general" public is uneducated, and absurdly ignorant towards different cultures. When the call used to get transferred to me from india, the first thing the redneck said was "dangum indians, i ain't under-stantin a word they saying" -- after which I ask them: "wtf did you say, redneck?"
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,224
5,083
126
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
dell seems to be much better if you use the online chat rather than the phone. it's still a guy in india following a prompt, but you don't have to hear through the accent and the wait times seem much shorter.
 

athithi

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2002
1,717
0
0
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody?

Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money?
Awwwwww some of your rich America hating buddies lose money???
Liberal behaviour at its finest.

Understanding and all that talk about one humanity until the ****** hits their own fan.

Then its God save America from these evil job robbing Indians.
Yeah, I realized on ATOT that neo-liberalism is just as bad as neo-conservatism. They are liberal as long as it is only to their own kind :) I found it shocking at first that liberals could be so obtuse, but you get used to it after a while. I believe it was CanOfWorms who explained to me that the new American liberalism was very different from what is traditionally considered liberal. Both neo-cons and neo-libs are just rabble-rousers that practice jingoism from different perspectives.

Think of yourself as an under-educated, under-qualified, under-achieving American citizen whose only real skill is to speak in his native tongue. The only break he gets in his life is the benefit of being a compatriot of some of the most industrious and successful people in the world. The only way for him to survive is to use his solitary skill in answering a phone call and reading from a script (in his native tongue, again) to service those other successful Americans (who fortunately speak the same language). Now, people like you come along and offer to do the same service for cheaper and the successful American, wanting to be even more successful, decides to hire you instead of his compatriot who wants more money than you just because he can roll his R's and soften his T's in a more natural manner.

You have not deprived this American of just a job, but of his entire future - because his entire future consists of picking up phones and reading from scripts. And then you have the gall to come along and claim that somehow what you did is fair because of some nebulous concept of 'free trade'? Have a heart, man. Be an American liberal and give him back his job - well, even if you resigned, it's not like the corp. you work for is going to give back that job to an American. So you must resign AND prevent other Indians from taking up your job AND somehow convince your employer that the American deserves the job more! The neo-liberal agenda will not be fulfilled until this happens and all the lost call center jobs move back to the U.S.A!!!
 

DurocShark

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
15,708
5
56
Originally posted by: athithi
Yeah, I realized on ATOT that neo-liberalism is just as bad as neo-conservatism. They are liberal as long as it is only to their own kind :) I found it shocking at first that liberals could be so obtuse, but you get used to it after a while. I believe it was CanOfWorms who explained to me that the new American liberalism was very different from what is traditionally considered liberal. Both neo-cons and neo-libs are just rabble-rousers that practice jingoism from different perspectives.

Think of yourself as an under-educated, under-qualified, under-achieving American citizen whose only real skill is to speak in his native tongue. The only break he gets in his life is the benefit of being a compatriot of some of the most industrious and successful people in the world. The only way for him to survive is to use his solitary skill in answering a phone call and reading from a script (in his native tongue, again) to service those other successful Americans (who fortunately speak the same language). Now, people like you come along and offer to do the same service for cheaper and the successful American, wanting to be even more successful, decides to hire you instead of his compatriot who wants more money than you just because he can roll his R's and soften his T's in a more natural manner.

You have not deprived this American of just a job, but of his entire future - because his entire future consists of picking up phones and reading from scripts. And then you have the gall to come along and claim that somehow what you did is fair because of some nebulous concept of 'free trade'? Have a heart, man. Be an American liberal and give him back his job - well, even if you resigned, it's not like the corp. you work for is going to give back that job to an American. So you must resign AND prevent other Indians from taking up your job AND somehow convince your employer that the American deserves the job more! The neo-liberal agenda will not be fulfilled until this happens and all the lost call center jobs move back to the U.S.A!!!
This post broke my sarcasm meter.

;)
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,247
2
0
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody? Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money? If Apple is doing this for a symbolic reason, then too bad for them. It won't win them any more fans.
Yeah, that is a great strategy. Save some money and lose customers because of it. Dell USED to be renowned for their support. I'd now rank them close to the bottom. When I call my bank (BoA), it is EXTREMELY refreshing to hear someone from the US on the phone. That's a BIG plus I give to the bank. I commend Apple for pulling out and hope the rest of the companies do the same.
There may be communication problems at Dell, that much I admit. But we are much better when it comes to actually solving problems. Dell is not a idiot to keep shooting itself in the foot.
Listen, if there is a comunnication problem, that is a SERIOUS problem when it comes to support. I put in support calls with Cisco and get the same sh!t. Now there is no doubt that the Cisco rep knows his sh!t, but if he can't communicate the information to me, his knowledge is worthless to me. And let me tell you, supportt calls to Cisco ain't cheap.

And yes, get rig of the communication problems and Dells support is still sh!t. We've got the super colossal ultimate business support and it is AWFUL! AWFUL I tell you. That is the MAIN reason we won't buy from Dell. A cheaper product only takes you so far.

I'am a Dell technician from India and I have seen the scores ranking American and Indian support centres on a scale. Indian sites rank higher than American sites.

I have seen the scale of resolutions provided by many American techs and they suck ass.
Man, Dell's support consist of "lets reformat the computer" than send them off. Which wouldn't be so bad if you helped the customers save the stuff, than reinstalled the drivers for everything afterwards. I work for RR and my agents have complaints about Dell from people who call RR saying "I can't connect to the internet, oh wait, Dell didn't reinstall my Ethernet controller". Dell's support sucks.

Hot sure about Gateway, I know HP is based in Canada and the US, as we have some support for HP at the office I work at. Dell needs to pull its support back now. Let Indian companies use Indian labour to support Indian products. At least you will not have a language barier than.

I oversea all three support departments on a regular basis though, and we do more steps than reformating a computer which is where Dell's steps usually go to.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,247
2
0
On a side note to my last comment.

I am not saying Indian call centers are bad, I am saying you should base the center in the country where the product is sold.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Originally posted by: intogamer
Apple should keep their stuff americanized
Except that iPods and their entire laptop line are made in China, their boards are all made in Taiwan, various components in Korea and Taiwan, and desktop assembly takes place in Mexico. They slap the batteries, RAM, and hard drives in the laptops and desktops in California, though.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,908
44
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: raildogg
How is this helping anybody?

Don't you understand that companies go to places not because they like those places, but because they can save a bit of money?
Awwwwww some of your rich America hating buddies lose money???
Liberal behaviour at its finest.

Understanding and all that talk about one humanity until the ****** hits their own fan.

Then its God save America from these evil job robbing Indians.
Yeah, I realized on ATOT that neo-liberalism is just as bad as neo-conservatism. They are liberal as long as it is only to their own kind :) I found it shocking at first that liberals could be so obtuse, but you get used to it after a while. I believe it was CanOfWorms who explained to me that the new American liberalism was very different from what is traditionally considered liberal. Both neo-cons and neo-libs are just rabble-rousers that practice jingoism from different perspectives.

Think of yourself as an under-educated, under-qualified, under-achieving American citizen whose only real skill is to speak in his native tongue. The only break he gets in his life is the benefit of being a compatriot of some of the most industrious and successful people in the world. The only way for him to survive is to use his solitary skill in answering a phone call and reading from a script (in his native tongue, again) to service those other successful Americans (who fortunately speak the same language). Now, people like you come along and offer to do the same service for cheaper and the successful American, wanting to be even more successful, decides to hire you instead of his compatriot who wants more money than you just because he can roll his R's and soften his T's in a more natural manner.

You have not deprived this American of just a job, but of his entire future - because his entire future consists of picking up phones and reading from scripts. And then you have the gall to come along and claim that somehow what you did is fair because of some nebulous concept of 'free trade'? Have a heart, man. Be an American liberal and give him back his job - well, even if you resigned, it's not like the corp. you work for is going to give back that job to an American. So you must resign AND prevent other Indians from taking up your job AND somehow convince your employer that the American deserves the job more!

The neo-liberal agenda will not be fulfilled until this happens and all the lost call center jobs move back to the U.S.A!!!
Good :thumbsup:

 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: RichardE

Man, Dell's support consist of "lets reformat the computer" than send them off. Which wouldn't be so bad if you helped the customers save the stuff, than reinstalled the drivers for everything afterwards. I work for RR and my agents have complaints about Dell from people who call RR saying "I can't connect to the internet, oh wait, Dell didn't reinstall my Ethernet controller". Dell's support sucks.

Hot sure about Gateway, I know HP is based in Canada and the US, as we have some support for HP at the office I work at. Dell needs to pull its support back now. Let Indian companies use Indian labour to support Indian products. At least you will not have a language barier than.

I oversea all three support departments on a regular basis though, and we do more steps than reformating a computer which is where Dell's steps usually go to.

STFU, what do you know?

I have worked as a hardware tech for Dell and I'am now working in premium support where you pay 250$ plus to get help. FRs used to happen a lot and you know why? because the average american guy who calls has to keep going to sites to whack off and cannot help getting his computer reinfected again, again and again.

That's why Dell started the premium support where we do help them to backup data and format, only if hours of troubleshooting fails. Reformats are heavily discouraged and are used only as the last option.

Remember you enjoy living in a first world nation because your civilizational forefathers used the concept of free trade and colonization to rob us of our wealth. Now when it comes back to haunt you, then its suddenly "Let Indian companies use Indian labour to support Indian products. At least you will not have a language barier than"

STFU again

 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
The thread is a good combination of first world arrogance and hypocricy when it comes to things which matters. Outsourcing is not going to go away and if you happen to stop it, other asian companies will destroy your companies with cost-cutting, until everything is equalized.

The only way you can stop outsourcing is stop globalization. And if that happens, America's underbelly would be kicked the hardest.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: RichardE
On a side note to my last comment.

I am not saying Indian call centers are bad, I am saying you should base the center in the country where the product is sold.
I do not care for your opinion of Indian call centers. Outsourcing trade and making operations efficient is as old as the concept of free trade. If you cannot deal with it, not my problem. If you lose your job, not my problem.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,820
36
91
Originally posted by: DurocShark
Originally posted by: athithi
Yeah, I realized on ATOT that neo-liberalism is just as bad as neo-conservatism. They are liberal as long as it is only to their own kind :) I found it shocking at first that liberals could be so obtuse, but you get used to it after a while. I believe it was CanOfWorms who explained to me that the new American liberalism was very different from what is traditionally considered liberal. Both neo-cons and neo-libs are just rabble-rousers that practice jingoism from different perspectives.

Think of yourself as an under-educated, under-qualified, under-achieving American citizen whose only real skill is to speak in his native tongue. The only break he gets in his life is the benefit of being a compatriot of some of the most industrious and successful people in the world. The only way for him to survive is to use his solitary skill in answering a phone call and reading from a script (in his native tongue, again) to service those other successful Americans (who fortunately speak the same language). Now, people like you come along and offer to do the same service for cheaper and the successful American, wanting to be even more successful, decides to hire you instead of his compatriot who wants more money than you just because he can roll his R's and soften his T's in a more natural manner.

You have not deprived this American of just a job, but of his entire future - because his entire future consists of picking up phones and reading from scripts. And then you have the gall to come along and claim that somehow what you did is fair because of some nebulous concept of 'free trade'? Have a heart, man. Be an American liberal and give him back his job - well, even if you resigned, it's not like the corp. you work for is going to give back that job to an American. So you must resign AND prevent other Indians from taking up your job AND somehow convince your employer that the American deserves the job more! The neo-liberal agenda will not be fulfilled until this happens and all the lost call center jobs move back to the U.S.A!!!
This post broke my sarcasm meter.

;)

It's nothing compared to what happened to your meter of fairness.
 

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