Apple or no apple?

[GrantMeThePower]

I know this might be opening a can of worms, but if there is anywhere that an analytic and objective conversation can happen, i would hope it would be here.

I've owned PC's for many years, but have never owned a mac. I would say i'm fairly proficent with PCs...i've tweaked the registry, run beta OS's, etc. Nothing hardcore like most of the folks on this forum, but out of all my friends and family, i'm the guy that people come to for help with their computers.

i've always vigorously defended windows against Mac because of the ability to dive deeper into the OS and change whatever you want, along with program compatibility.

Now, though, i'm beginning to question the merits of that. After my last two laptops both died prematurly and I had to wipe the OS a couple times because of malware, i'm starting to get sick of the work needed to keep windows computers up to par. My time is much too valuable now to spend hours working on the computer just for the computers sake. I want something that I can use how i want and not have to worry about.

I'm thinking about switching to mac.

Has anyone else made that switch? HOw do you feel about it? Does anyone regret it? What practical differences are there that I'm not thinking about?

Can anyone provide some insight or advice?

Thank you!

 

[IlllI]

well you are in luck. anandtech just did a 2 part review on the new macbook pro
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582

 

[GrantMeThePower]

I just read that. The battery life sounds amazing. I'm fairly certain, from reviews and people talking, that the hardware of the mac books is exceptional.

It is really more of the software and the experience of using the operating system that I am curious about.

Thank you

 

[TheStu]

Just under 3 years ago, I was switching majors at school to Software Engineering. I was told that I had to have a laptop for the class, which was annoying since I already had a desktop.

I knew at the time that every laptop I had used up to that point was not very impressive. The keyboards all flexed, the trackpads were crap, the screens often were unevenly lit, and on top of that, had nowhere near the performance I was looking for.

As I mentioned, I already had a desktop, and it was a pretty good one at the time, so I decided from the get go that i didn't need a huge DTR laptop, or even a 15", I wanted a 13" laptop, maybe 12". So, with that in mind, i start looking. This was right around the time that the Core Duo was coming out, so I was hoping to score one of those, but only if the price was right.

After going to store after store, trying out all of them, I finally settled on 2 choices, the Sony SZ ($1800 base!) and the Apple MacBook ($1100 base after student discount).

I have been using my macbook, everyday, for the past 940 days. It has seen all kinds of crap, and as you already pointed out, you are confident in the hardware, and you should be, the new stuff coming out of Cupertino is incredibly well put together.

Software wise.

I made myself use OS X and only OS X for the first month or so that I had the system, and I haven't looked back. In OS X, you can actually use your entire screen, because you will find yourself almost never full-screening things. You might look for it when you first get it, but after a while you will realize that you don't need your web browser to be the full width of the screen, so that leaves you a bunch of space on the side there, for iChat (or Adium), or iTunes Mini Player, or file transfer status, download window, anything.

File management, and media handling feels better in OS X, and I really do feel that I am using my computer, not working through the OS to use my computer like I do with Windows (especially XP, but even 7 to a certain extent).

Time Machine may have its analogies in Windows and Linux, but none of them have the usability and heck, just fun factor of it. Plus it is a total set and forget utility. Plug in the external, tell it to back up, and you are done.

It will take some getting used to, but if you actually mean to switch, and give it maybe 2 weeks or so, you will get used to it. Don't expect it to be Windows, and you should be fine.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I was always a PC guy. In late 2006, my crappy old Dell 600m laptop was dying, and I wanted a replacement. I wanted to get the sturdiest, best quality machine I could.

I bought a Thinkpad T61 and immediately hated it. The machine was disappointing from a build quality standpoint, and it suffered from a weird technical problem - it couldn't simultaneously play sound and connect wirelessly. I tried calling Lenovo and they were completely ignorant and obnoxious. I returned it and started from the top.

I shopped around a lot and decided that the MacBook was the nicest machine on the market in a reasonable price range. I bought it with every intention of running Windows on the MacBook. Here we are 2 1/2 years later and I've never looked back. I prefer OS X more or less in every way (other than a few niggling areas where I prefer Windows), and the machine itself is amazing.

I think the new 13" Mac Book Pro is the nicest machine on the market from my perspective, and it's remarkably priced considering the insane build quality. I will be receiving one on Wednesday, and will be putting my MB up on the 'Bay.

 

[MrX8503]

I've been a PC forever, and I still am, but I just ordered one of the new macbook pro 13".

Up until now, Macs have never been powerful enough at a decent price. If you wanted anything decently powerful it was at least $2000. Now with the new update, I think Apple has finally made their macbooks somewhat affordable.

After scouring the net for months looking for the right laptop and owning the Dell 1520 ever since its release, I have come to the conclusion that Apple's laptop construction is unmatched. So its up to you if you think its worth to pay a lil extra for the construction. For me, its worth the premium, probably not a $2000 premium though. Thats why I got the 13"

As for the OS, I have used it for around 3 years and I don't prefer one over the other. I prefer the dock vs the taskbar though. Don't believe anyone who says Vista crashes more, or Macs are better for graphics work, they are both the same in that regard. The difference I would say is that if something happened to my Mac, I'm not sure on how I would fix it, but if it was a PC I wouldn't have a problem.

 

[Rottie]

Well I helped my roommate get his first laptop - Dell m300 (i think) and he loves it until he moved to east coast and made switch to Macbook pro I asked him why??? he told me he really love the way macbook looks and OSX wowed him. so far he didnt regrest it also he asked me for my help install new Leopard OSX even though I dont know much about OSX and Mackbook but it is nice to know both. Do I like MacBook Pro? I dont know because Apple is so innovate at many things. One day I might retire PC/Windows OS when I find cheap new MacBook Pro. few years ago I was close to buy Mac Mini but it doesnt comes with monitor so I decided not to. I know Mac Mini still out there waiting for me.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

Thank you all for the confirmations of my suspsicions. It seems like at this point in my life Mac might be right for me. Just two more questions:

MrX- you made the point that i was concerned with...if something happened, how do you fix it? I can fix anything on a PC. that is my concern....

Secondly, what do you guys think about the update that Anand refered to that there will be a huge improvement in the near future on the mac book lines?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: GrantMeThePower
Thank you all for the confirmations of my suspsicions. It seems like at this point in my life Mac might be right for me. Just two more questions:

MrX- you made the point that i was concerned with...if something happened, how do you fix it? I can fix anything on a PC. that is my concern....

Secondly, what do you guys think about the update that Anand refered to that there will be a huge improvement in the near future on the mac book lines?

As for your second question, it sounds like the Arrandale platform will yield major speed gains in ALL laptops, including Apples, in late 2009 or early 2010. Since they just came out with the new machines I would expect at least 6 months before the new machines emerge. This is not enough to deter me - the current machines are very fast, and there's always something faster/better around the corner - but if I had no reason to get a new machine in the next 6 months or so I would probably wait.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: GrantMeThePower
Thank you all for the confirmations of my suspsicions. It seems like at this point in my life Mac might be right for me. Just two more questions:

MrX- you made the point that i was concerned with...if something happened, how do you fix it? I can fix anything on a PC. that is my concern....

Secondly, what do you guys think about the update that Anand refered to that there will be a huge improvement in the near future on the mac book lines?

Do you have an Apple Store near you? The one year warranty (that you can extend out to 3 years) covers Apple Store visits to get things fixed, and you can always book a class there to learn how to do certain things.

There will always, always be an update coming that will make your existing purchase obsolete. If you need it now, get it now. If you can wait 3-6 months, then wait 3-6 months.

 

[wbynum]

One thing to note about the Mac notebooks is their 1 year warranty. For the price you pay they should have a standard 3 year warranty. Similarly priced business level laptops from HP have a 3 year warranty. Not sure what size notebook you are looking for but TD has a stellar deal on a 17" HP business laptop right now. $900 - 15% MS cashback.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...pNo=4788859&CatId=2289

I've never been a big fan of Mac's. IMO they are overpriced. If I wanted to try OSX then I'd just make a hackintosh laptop. Or just install some flavor of linux.

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: TheStu
Just under 3 years ago, I was switching majors at school to Software Engineering. I was told that I had to have a laptop for the class, which was annoying since I already had a desktop.

I knew at the time that every laptop I had used up to that point was not very impressive. The keyboards all flexed, the trackpads were crap, the screens often were unevenly lit, and on top of that, had nowhere near the performance I was looking for.

As I mentioned, I already had a desktop, and it was a pretty good one at the time, so I decided from the get go that i didn't need a huge DTR laptop, or even a 15", I wanted a 13" laptop, maybe 12". So, with that in mind, i start looking. This was right around the time that the Core Duo was coming out, so I was hoping to score one of those, but only if the price was right.

After going to store after store, trying out all of them, I finally settled on 2 choices, the Sony SZ ($1800 base!) and the Apple MacBook ($1100 base after student discount).

I have been using my macbook, everyday, for the past 940 days. It has seen all kinds of crap, and as you already pointed out, you are confident in the hardware, and you should be, the new stuff coming out of Cupertino is incredibly well put together.

Software wise.

I made myself use OS X and only OS X for the first month or so that I had the system, and I haven't looked back. In OS X, you can actually use your entire screen, because you will find yourself almost never full-screening things. You might look for it when you first get it, but after a while you will realize that you don't need your web browser to be the full width of the screen, so that leaves you a bunch of space on the side there, for iChat (or Adium), or iTunes Mini Player, or file transfer status, download window, anything.

File management, and media handling feels better in OS X, and I really do feel that I am using my computer, not working through the OS to use my computer like I do with Windows (especially XP, but even 7 to a certain extent).

Time Machine may have its analogies in Windows and Linux, but none of them have the usability and heck, just fun factor of it. Plus it is a total set and forget utility. Plug in the external, tell it to back up, and you are done.

It will take some getting used to, but if you actually mean to switch, and give it maybe 2 weeks or so, you will get used to it. Don't expect it to be Windows, and you should be fine.

I fullscreen Safari. There's just less scrolling.

Spaces for the rest.

 

[J3S73R]

We use both here at work; I wouldnt say one is better than the other by any means (hardware wise since you mentioned the others dying prematurely). The hardware on the MAC have had just as many issues as the PC have.

I would say go with what you think you might like... if you are feeling like apple might be better, go with it! If you do decide to switch you can still use windows if you ever run into anything that requires the windows software if you absolutely need to.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

i just can't get used to the way the mouse works on the macbooks. i don't know if there is some setting to play around with, but something about it just seems off.

 

[California Roll]

I specifically got a Dell Vostro A90 (black Mini 9) so I could try out OS X. It installed perfectly and is a fun toy. Fully functional Mac laptop for $280 + OS. There's no reason for me to use a Mac, but I wanted to check it out. I'll probably play with it some more for a couple months and then put Windows 7 on it.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Can someone explain how the trackpad on the MBP works in Windows to me? How do you right click? How do you left/right click and drag?

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Can someone explain how the trackpad on the MBP works in Windows to me? How do you right click? How do you left/right click and drag?

Right click: Two fingers on trackpad and then click, or tap with two fingers.
Click & Drag: Since the entire trackpad is a button, you click, and then drag, just like with any other trackpad.

The surface moves, it physically 'clicks', and it tracks at least 4 fingers at once, so using 2 fingers to scroll or 'right' click is easy.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Can someone explain how the trackpad on the MBP works in Windows to me? How do you right click? How do you left/right click and drag?

Right click: Two fingers on trackpad and then click, or tap with two fingers.
Click & Drag: Since the entire trackpad is a button, you click, and then drag, just like with any other trackpad.

The surface moves, it physically 'clicks', and it tracks at least 4 fingers at once, so using 2 fingers to scroll or 'right' click is easy.

That sounds kind of annoying. Can I get input from long time standard touchpad users on using the apple buttonless touchpad?

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Can someone explain how the trackpad on the MBP works in Windows to me? How do you right click? How do you left/right click and drag?

Right click: Two fingers on trackpad and then click, or tap with two fingers.
Click & Drag: Since the entire trackpad is a button, you click, and then drag, just like with any other trackpad.

The surface moves, it physically 'clicks', and it tracks at least 4 fingers at once, so using 2 fingers to scroll or 'right' click is easy.

That sounds kind of annoying. Can I get input from long time standard touchpad users on using the apple buttonless touchpad?

The only difference between the trackpads on an Apple laptop, be it the latest ones with the glass trackpad or even the early Intel Macs is that there is 1 physical button instead of 2.

 

[Dari]

Used to be a Mac guy. After switching to Windows, I couldn't be happier. Apple is too controlling and their hardware is just as good (or bad) as Windows computer, which can be half the price.

 

[metalmania]

Let me see, I have played with PC over 13 years and Mac over 5 years. Now I have 2 PC laptops and 3 desktops running, and a XPS Hackintosh for the wife, the ibook is just sitting on the shelf. I like PC better.

 

[hans030390]

Originally posted by: GrantMeThePower
Now, though, i'm beginning to question the merits of that. After my last two laptops both died prematurly and I had to wipe the OS a couple times because of malware, i'm starting to get sick of the work needed to keep windows computers up to par. My time is much too valuable now to spend hours working on the computer just for the computers sake. I want something that I can use how i want and not have to worry about.

Apple uses the same hardware found in any other laptop. It may be ever so slightly nicer, but as far as failure rates and such, it can happen with any laptop. Your best bet is to make sure you get a reliable brand (ex: Lenovo, from what I've heard). With budget/crappy computers (do your research), you'll have things like the RAM and hard drives failing more often than others (this is based on personal experience and observation of others).

Anyone who things Macs are more reliable are just fooling themselves.

Sure, Macs look and feel great. They FEEL like solid computers, and they are. But they're still running the same components and can still die prematurely.

As for malware, that's more likely YOUR fault. Use Vista or (even better) Windows 7 (when it's out). They're more secure than XP. Make sure the OS is always updated as well. Also, make sure you have a good anti-virus software (Avira AntiVir is superb AND free). These are kind of "set it and forget it" things to do with your computer. Also, don't be dumb on the internet (not saying you were, but it's a general guideline). If you're smart with the computer, you'll hardly ever be hit with malware (never forget to do checks with the antivirus software, and also check with good anti-spyware software as well).

If you want my personal opinion on the OS itself, OS X 10.5 is OK. Quick, looks nice, etc. Easy to use...well, yes, but I personally feel that Windows 7 is more intuitive than OS X (and therefore much easier to use).

Closing point...Macs are just more expensive. You can find better deals on a Windows based laptop. With Windows 7 coming out soon...I honestly don't think a Mac is worth it.

Sorry if I offend anyone for not preferring Mac/Apple.

Edit: I just recently looked at Lenovo's budget line of computers at a local Fry's. Those things feel as sturdy as a rock, literally. They're definitely bulkier and not as sleep as a Mac (then again, what computer is without compromising on build quality?), but that thing just felt TOUGH. For $420, you got a 2ghz Pentium dual-core CPU, 250GB HDD, DVD burner, 3GB RAM, etc. Reviews look great for it as well. I'd pick one up if 1) I needed it and 2) It was able to play games (it can't).

 

[MrX8503]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: TheStu

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Can someone explain how the trackpad on the MBP works in Windows to me? How do you right click? How do you left/right click and drag?

Right click: Two fingers on trackpad and then click, or tap with two fingers.
Click & Drag: Since the entire trackpad is a button, you click, and then drag, just like with any other trackpad.

The surface moves, it physically 'clicks', and it tracks at least 4 fingers at once, so using 2 fingers to scroll or 'right' click is easy.

That sounds kind of annoying. Can I get input from long time standard touchpad users on using the apple buttonless touchpad?

For the Apple trackpad to really make sense, You have to use it yourself.

The prev gen macbook 2008 trackpad I hated cause right click was a pain and the button was too stiff.

Apples current 2009 trackpad + multitouch is leaps and bounds above PC laptop trackpads and heres why:

It has 2, 3, 4, finger multi touch functions
Surface is super smooth
Huge trackpad, I don't find myself resetting my finger back to the edge
High Sensitivity
Bottom corner can be set as right click

The click is still stiff, but the reasons above outweighs the negative and makes a PC laptop trackpad seem extremely clunky.

 

[hans030390]

I hate the new trackpad and the fact that it doesn't have a distinct button. If you can really map the right click to it, that's better than the previous ones.

Yes, I've used them. It's a laptop trackpad. They all do the same thing. None of them fill me with joy. USB mouse is my friend.

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: hans030390
I hate the new trackpad and the fact that it doesn't have a distinct button. If you can really map the right click to it, that's better than the previous ones.

Yes, I've used them. It's a laptop trackpad. They all do the same thing. None of them fill me with joy. USB mouse is my friend.

I used to hate trackpads, but I find on my MBP, I use the trackpad most often.

The lack of physical buttons doesn't bother me. THe only button I'd ever use on my old laptop was the right mouse button, that was it. Everything else, I'd just tap the trackpad to click instead.