Apple is worth more than every single one of its smartphone vendor rivals combined.

[Patranus]

Steve Jobs was absolutely a very special person. I still do not understand how a lot of Apple fans are still swimming in denial and kept underplaying his resignation/death. There's absolutely no way to go for Apple but down from here on out. This year and maybe next they'll probably hold on just because they are so far above everyone else at this point, but then they will slowly go straight down.

If I had any Apple stocks I would probably sell them all off in a couple of months (let's say about a few weeks after iPad 3 is out).

See, I disagree to a point.
I think he will be missed but I also think that his departure this time was 100% different than last time. Last time he was essentially forced out. This time he has hand picked his people to run the company. While they might not be on the same level as Mr. Jobs, collectively they have the ability to get the job done in the same way Jobs did.

 

[alent1234]

Steve Jobs was absolutely a very special person. I still do not understand how a lot of Apple fans are still swimming in denial and kept underplaying his resignation/death. There's absolutely no way to go for Apple but down from here on out. This year and maybe next they'll probably hold on just because they are so far above everyone else at this point, but then they will slowly go straight down.

If I had any Apple stocks I would probably sell them all off in a couple of months (let's say about a few weeks after iPad 3 is out).

because he made a lot of wrong decisions and most of the successful products were either bought or designed by others in the company

 

[MrX8503]

Steve Jobs was absolutely a very special person. I still do not understand how a lot of Apple fans are still swimming in denial and kept underplaying his resignation/death. There's absolutely no way to go for Apple but down from here on out. This year and maybe next they'll probably hold on just because they are so far above everyone else at this point, but then they will slowly go straight down.

If I had any Apple stocks I would probably sell them all off in a couple of months (let's say about a few weeks after iPad 3 is out).

Once a company experiences a near death experience, they'll do whatever it takes to avoid that again at all costs. I believe Steve Jobs and company have been preparing for his departure for several years to avoid a downward spiral of Apple. I think one of their safety nets is acquiring a large nest egg of $100B.

However, no matter how successful a company, they can still fall. It'll be interesting to see what's after the iPhone5/iPad3. Maybe their Apple TV is going to be their next BIG thing.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I don't see how you're making this comparison. Apple and Samsung designed the PCB and all of the circuits that goes into the phone, Google does not. Its as simple as that.

http://www.anandtech.com/print/2264

That's the iPhone, it has a Samsung PCB. Apple may have had design input, but given that the Galaxy Nexus doesn't exactly match up with any of Samsung's other phones that is a mighty fine hair you are trying to split.

 

[bearxor]

http://www.anandtech.com/print/2264

That's the iPhone, it has a Samsung PCB. Apple may have had design input, but given that the Galaxy Nexus doesn't exactly match up with any of Samsung's other phones that is a mighty fine hair you are trying to split.

Samsung manufactures the PCB. They also prduce the A4/A5 SoC. Just like some other company makes the camera modules. Another makes the screen. Someone makes the glass. Foxconn (and other companies) simply take all of this and put it together. They do it for tons of companies. They don't actually MAKE things. They assemble things.

This argument will go no where because you both have differing opinions about what qualifies as a manufacturer. One side believes its whom designs and specifies the conponents. One believes it's whom actually produces it. Google is not a hardware vendor by either description. Apple is by one.

 

[BenSkywalker]

One side believes its whom designs and specifies the conponents. One believes it's whom actually produces it. Google is not a hardware vendor by either description. Apple is by one.

If this is your stance, can you please link Samsung's phone sold under their own brand name that has the exact same specs as the Galaxy Nexus. You must be able to do this for your assertion to hold valid.

 

[bearxor]

If this is your stance, can you please link Samsung's phone sold under their own brand name that has the exact same specs as the Galaxy Nexus. You must be able to do this for your assertion to hold valid.

No I don't. Placing a contract with a hardware manufacturer does not make you a hardware manufacturer.

Google specifies what they want in a Nexus device. Then it's up to the hardware manfacturer to work with Google to deliver the design they're looking for with the features they want to highlight.

Apple specifies what it wants in a device to Apple. Then, Apple designs and prototypes the devices. They mold the prototypes in their labs. They lay out the PCB and order them. They design the SoC and contract that out.

There's no evidence that Google does any of that. Here's a story talking about the design inspiration of the Galaxy Nexus, on Samsung's official blog, with two of the designers, both of whom work for Samsung.
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=8959

Do you think Apple is going out there and asking HTC, Motorola, Samsung or Nokia what they want to see in a device?

Now, look, I'm not going to argue that the Nexus One, Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus are not the products of collaboration between Google and HTC/Samsung. But the devices are designed and manufactured by Samsung. Google simply wants to ensure that they are pushing the hardware platform forward. I can't find anything that states the opposite. They are simply not as involved in the hardware end of things as Apple is. But, they don't NEED to be, either.

 

[pm]

Apple specifies what it wants in a device to Apple. Then, Apple designs and prototypes the devices. They mold the prototypes in their labs. They lay out the PCB and order them. They design the SoC and contract that out.

Just to clarify your point, they design their own SOC's themselves. They acquired a CPU design team from PA Semi a couple of years ago and they've been designing their own SOC's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi

 

[Red Storm]

No I don't. Placing a contract with a hardware manufacturer does not make you a hardware manufacturer.

In this thread the original term was smartphone vendor, which I think is pretty easy to argue that Google is a part of. Then it got changed to hardware vendor, and now it's become hardware manufacturer...

 

[BenSkywalker]

They mold the prototypes in their labs.

I can see that one, they design the case, the rest of your assertions seem to be at best highly suspect as to what Apple does.

They lay out the PCB and order them.

Samsung PCB using off the shelf Samsung ICs is Apple designing it themselves? These are the types of things I can't understand, what level of microscopic hair splitting you people are doing and how to even wrap my head around it.

They design the SoC and contract that out.

They use an ARM licensed CPU paired with a PowerVR licensed GPU. I'm sure the engineers who actually designed the parts wouldn't be too thrilled with people saying they now work for Apple. The whole A5 not being allowed to be produced besides anyone but Samsung also makes the claim that it is Apple designed highly suspect.

There's no evidence that Google does any of that.

You are correct, just like their is no evidence to indicate that Apple does most of what you are talking about. Conversely, there is an awful lot of evidence that they buy products from other companies and pay Foxconn to put them together.

Here's a story talking about the design inspiration of the Galaxy Nexus, on Samsung's official blog, with two of the designers, both of whom work for Samsung.

Should we post comments from some of the engineers at PowerVR over the GPU people now are saying Apple designed? Would that prove anything?

You can call Samsung a hardware maker as they actually make hardware(from clean sheat of paper to product in the store). Apple is a design company, taking parts other people engineered and putting them in a case they designed. Maybe a packaging company would be a more acceptable term?

They acquired a CPU design team from PA Semi a couple of years ago and they've been designing their own SOC's

So that could lead to the A6 being in house, but no way in that time frame was the A5- and I know you know that

 

[bearxor]

I disagree with so much of what you have said but it's not worth continuing the discussion. As I noted, there are two sides in this thread that disagree over the terminology being used. Using your logic, there's not a single smart phone on this planet that belongs to any one company and I'll just say I disagree with you.

But, according to just about everything I can find, chips from the A4 on up have been designed by Apples internal PA Semi team that it acquired in early 2008, nearly two years before the first device to use the A4 chip was announced. From what I can tell, Apple did get some outside help designing the A4 from Intrinsity, but can find no such evidence of similar outside help on the A5 chip.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Using your logic, there's not a single smart phone on this planet that belongs to any one company and I'll just say I disagree with you.

Not true at all. Apple using off the shelf Samsung components on a Samsung PCB does not make it an Apple design. Apple using an ARM and PowerVR license does not make it an Apple design. Apple using a Qualcomm modem does not make it an Apple design. Apple have Foxconn build it for them does not make it Apple made.

Apple is a smartphone vendor.

Google is also a smartphone vendor.

Neither one of them manufacture smartphones.

 

[cheezy321]

Not true at all. Apple using off the shelf Samsung components on a Samsung PCB does not make it an Apple design. Apple using an ARM and PowerVR license does not make it an Apple design. Apple using a Qualcomm modem does not make it an Apple design. Apple have Foxconn build it for them does not make it Apple made.

Apple is a smartphone vendor.

Google is also a smartphone vendor.

Neither one of them manufacture smartphones.

What off the shelf samsung components are you talking about? Are you saying the A4 wasn't designed by apple one bit? The PCB was 100% samsung designed? They had no impact in the creation of it? It was just pulled off a shelf from samsung?

Seriously, wtf are you saying? That apple doesn't design anything? They just 'package' things?

What has P.A. Semi done for apple since they were acquired? Sit around and twiddle their thumbs?

 

[bearxor]

Not true at all. Apple using off the shelf Samsung components on a Samsung PCB does not make it an Apple design. Apple using an ARM and PowerVR license does not make it an Apple design. Apple using a Qualcomm modem does not make it an Apple design. Apple have Foxconn build it for them does not make it Apple made.

Apple is a smartphone vendor.

Google is also a smartphone vendor.

Neither one of them manufacture smartphones.

Right. And so Samsung using an ARM CPU and GPU means that it's not a Samsung design.

Relax, I'm agreeing with you. There is not a single smartphone vendor I can think of that makes their own phones.

 

[BenSkywalker]

What off the shelf samsung components are you talking about?

Click the link I posted above. The have a full tear down of the iPhone, awful lot of Samsung labels involved just to warn you

What has P.A. Semi done for apple since they were acquired? Sit around and twiddle their thumbs?

Do you have any idea how long it takes to design a SoC, tape it out and get it into a working mass market shipping device? They could be designing the greatest thing ever made, it isn't going to have a sub 24 month turnaround on a portable device from clean sheet. It isn't going to happen.

 

[BenSkywalker]

There is not a single smartphone vendor I can think of that makes their own phones.

Engineering isn't the same as manufacturing. Samsung makes their own phones, they use a lot of outsourced engineering.

In the mobile space you have companies like nVidia who has never made anything, they just do engineering. The difference is they don't have a bunch of profoundly ignorant worshippers who insist that they must because they love them so

 

[MrX8503]

Google is more of a software company than a hardware company and Apple is more of both than Google. At least that's what the original point I was getting across.

 

[bearxor]

Engineering isn't the same as manufacturing. Samsung makes their own phones, they use a lot of outsourced engineering.

In the mobile space you have companies like nVidia who has never made anything, they just do engineering. The difference is they don't have a bunch of profoundly ignorant worshippers who insist that they must because they love them so

Oh, I see... Engineering. Ok. So no company actually engineers their own phones. Samsung actually manufactruers their own phones. Design doesn't matter unless you actually manufactruer the parts as well. I think we're on the same page now.

What's the point of bringing up nvidia? I don't think anyone was trying to argue that nvidia was a smart phone vendor.

And stop implying that I'm ignorant. You'll just get the thread locked .

 

[cheezy321]

Click the link I posted above. The have a full tear down of the iPhone, awful lot of Samsung labels involved just to warn you



Do you have any idea how long it takes to design a SoC, tape it out and get it into a working mass market shipping device? They could be designing the greatest thing ever made, it isn't going to have a sub 24 month turnaround on a portable device from clean sheet. It isn't going to happen.

The link you posted was from 2007. That's almost 5 years ago. It was the first generation of the iPhone. Immediately after it was released. Do you really think nothing has changed between the 2G iPhone and the iPhone 4S?

 

[QueBert]

Since apparently no company actually makes their own smart phones, and Google and MS don't make phones period. I think OP's original claim about Apples worth is still valid

*shrug*

 

[BoberFett]

I swear this is a repost. Doesn't an "Apple is the biggest company ever" thread get started every week or two?

 

[QueBert]

I swear this is a repost. Doesn't an "Apple is the biggest company ever" thread get started every week or two?

This is not one of those weekly "Apple's the biggest company ever" threads. This one's clearly about how Apple's bigger than all it's phone competitors combine, which is saying something totally different from the regular threads.