Question Apple devices no internet-Windows devices have internet

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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I attached a second wireless router to my main wireless router. When connected (to WR-1) with any device I can reach the internet on WR-1(main wireless router). When connected to WR-2(second wireless router) with any windows device/computer can reach internet. Iphones and Ipads show connected but no internet connection is what shows on them. Tracert and ping with laptop to both WR-1 and WR-2 both work. When connected with apple device they fail. Any insight is appreciated!
 

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briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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So figured out how to get them all connecting to internet. Still not sure why was able to get windows/pc/laptops to connect to internet but not apple devices.
 

In2Photos

Senior member
Mar 21, 2007
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What did you figure out?

I'm also curious why both devices are being used as routers? Why not make one an access point?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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What did you figure out?

I'm also curious why both devices are being used as routers? Why not make one an access point?
Yea, in this scenario router 1 should be doing all the work, and router 2 should be a WAP and switch, dhcp server disabled, dont use WAN port

OP - Google “router as wap” and folllow one of the many guides out there to set this up the right way.
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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What did you figure out?

I'm also curious why both devices are being used as routers? Why not make one an access point?
I don't need it like this and will not use it like this I am just learning VLSM and was playing around with it and the only thing I had here is a older second wireless router.
I had set the second router LAN address set to the WAN address. I changed it and all is working. Still would like it if someone knows why the three separate windows devices all with different ip address attached to WR-2 could take to internet but three separate apple devices could not?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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I don't need it like this and will not use it like this I am just learning VLSM and was playing around with it and the only thing I had here is a older second wireless router.
I had set the second router LAN address set to the WAN address. I changed it and all is working. Still would like it if someone knows why the three separate windows devices all with different ip address attached to WR-2 could take to internet but three separate apple devices could not?
change it back, and post IP config for each device. Both working and not. I would guess that clients were connect the way you thought they were.

btw, you’re claiming to be learning but already not taking advice from people who likely know more about the topic than you do. Not a good start man
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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change it back, and post IP config for each device. Both working and not. I would guess that clients were connect the way you thought they were.

btw, you’re claiming to be learning but already not taking advice from people who likely know more about the topic than you do. Not a good start man
I am trying to learn. What makes you think in my statement that I am not? I am trying to learn how to set up separate subnet masks and only allocate certain number of IP addresses to each. So I had an issue that came up that didn't make sense and asked how this could happen and how to resolve it. I still am not seeing from you why this could happen only that you are speculating that I am not a good listen. So let me ask you this could I have setup WR-2 as a WAP and it been on separate subnet? And could the WR-1 as DHCP dished out correct IP addresses for but subnets?

As far as settings I didn't change any client settings on windows devices or apple devices. I merely connected to WR-2 wifi ssid and they all got settings automatically.

Windows device 1: 192.168.1.35
Apple device 1: 192.168.1.36
Windows device 2 and 3: 192.168.137 and 192.168.1.38
Apple device 2 and 3: 192.168.1.39 and 192.168.1.39
 

In2Photos

Senior member
Mar 21, 2007
887
802
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It's really hard to speculate what might have happened based on the information provided. And now that it's been resolved it's even more difficult as the information you provide is for a working scenario. The IP address alone doesn't lead us anywhere other than knowing the device connected to WR2 and was assigned the IP.

Since you were able to resolve the issue without changing anything on the client side it obviously is in the router config. Can you post screenshots of the configuration? Specifically the parts you changed to make it work?
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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The only changes I made were to WR-2(the secondary router). The two highlighted areas. IP address was 192.168.1.32
Starting ip address was 192.168.1.33.

Would the second picture of a network work? Having a switch between two wireless routers. Could you leave each one on to be it's own separate network with subnet and leave DHCP on?
 

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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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The only changes I made were to WR-2(the secondary router). The two highlighted areas. IP address was 192.168.1.32
Starting ip address was 192.168.1.33.

Would the second picture of a network work? Having a switch between two wireless routers.
Typically as a home consumer, no. Your ISP would need to be providing at least 2 (or more) IP addresses to you, and most all home customer plans only provide 1 (each router's WAN port would need to receive an IP address from your ISP).

Could you leave each one on to be it's own separate network with subnet and leave DHCP on?
Yes, you could leave each to be it's own separate network with a different subnet (or even the same subnet) with DHCP on (or off). But you would not be able to easily route to each other (i.e. reach the other devices between the two) without some customized routing rules and you would probably not be able to run servers or services on them using consumer hardware due to NAT and the built-in firewall rules on the devices (both of which can be overcome assuming the router you have supports some advanced features typically only found in the various third-party and/or opensource replacement firmwares such as OpenWRT, DD-WRT, etc).
 
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briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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Typically as a home consumer, no. Your ISP would need to be providing at least 2 (or more) IP addresses to you, and most all home customer plans only provide 1 (each router's WAN port would need to receive an IP address from your ISP).


Yes, you could leave each to be it's own separate network with a different subnet (or even the same subnet) with DHCP on (or off). But you would not be able to easily route to each other (i.e. reach the other devices between the two) without some customized routing rules and you would probably not be able to run servers or services on them using consumer hardware due to NAT and the built-in firewall rules on the devices (both of which can be overcome assuming the router you have supports some advanced features typically only found in the various third-party and/or opensource replacement firmwares such as OpenWRT, DD-WRT, etc).

Ok thanks appreciate everyone's input and help.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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The only changes I made were to WR-2(the secondary router). The two highlighted areas. IP address was 192.168.1.32
Starting ip address was 192.168.1.33.

Would the second picture of a network work? Having a switch between two wireless routers. Could you leave each one on to be it's own separate network with subnet and leave DHCP on?
those routers are probably home routers with a switch already built in. Post models if it matters
 

mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
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If router 2 R6020 boots first, then it becomes the gateway (LAN 192.168.1.33 )

since most ISP will only issue one WAN IP to a home as @Fallen Kell has said.
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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If router 2 R6020 boots first, then it becomes the gateway (LAN 192.168.1.33 )

since most ISP will only issue one WAN IP to a home as @Fallen Kell has said.
Thanks did not know that. In this instance I have always had modem start first then waiting till booted up, then booted up WR-1 wait for bootup the booted WR-2. In getting the detail ipconfig to post here I noticed something I hadn't seen before which might be allowing both routers to have DHCP enabled and have internet from both routers without conflict? WR-1 Connection show DHCP, WR-2 Connection show DHCP client? I am reading about this now and trying understand this function. But here is some screen shots of my setup thanks for the all the responses.
 

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mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
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Home come your routers' WAN IP and LAN IP addresses are in the same 192.168.1.x range?

WAN IP addresses shouldn't be in 192.168.x.x private range at all, unless you are doing "double NAT", which cascade 2 or more home routers.


Your IPconfig info is showing your devices NICs IP addresses, not routers.

ISP has a DHCP server distributing dynamic WAN IP addresses to client's modem which will bind to client's home router's WAN port. Client's home router also act as DHCP server distributing private IP addresses to his/her own LAN devices (computers, smart phones, tablets) through its LAN ports.

==

If you really want to learn routing, a very good free tool is GNS3, though I never really set it up myself.

It's definitely not easy though. It's for network professionals or who wants to become professional.


 
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JackMDS

Elite Member
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Oct 25, 1999
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Try to explainwhat are the specific ports that connect one Router port to the other Router port.

2. Judging from the IP configuration pic above of your Router the whole configuration is wrong.

First disconnect the Routers one from the other and make sure that the main Router that goes to Internet is configured correctly and the computers etc. that need to go from it to the Internet are capable to do so.

Then connect and configure the second Router like this.

Using Wireless Routers (or Modem/Wireless Router) as a Switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

You can use the ports of the second Router, or the Wireless, or both, it up to you, but the configuration has to be like described.


:cool:
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
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Home come your routers' WAN IP and LAN IP addresses are in the same 192.168.1.x range?

WAN IP addresses shouldn't be in 192.168.x.x private range at all, unless you are doing "double NAT", which cascade 2 or more home routers.


Your IPconfig info is showing your devices NICs IP addresses, not routers.

If you really want to learn routing, a very good free tool is GNS3, though I never really set it up myself.

It's definitely not easy though. It's for network professionals.


I am still very new to this was trying to mess around with Variable length subnetting. I usually only have WR-1 for all my internet needs. Don't use the other one ever (only for this project). I have not changed any settings on main router. To log into main (WR-1) router I use 192.168.1.1 (I can log into router page when connected to wireless internet on either router this way). I log into WR-2 192.168.1.33. Not sure if this helps? Right now I do have WR-2 WAN port plugged into WR-1 Lan port (Should I have done this?)
 

briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
11
0
6
Try to explainwhat are the specific ports that connect one Router port to the other Router port.

2. Judging from the IP configuration pic above of your Router the whole configuration is wrong.

First disconnect the Routers one from the other and make sure that the main Router that goes to Internet is configured correctly and the computers etc. that need to go from it to the Internet are capable to do so.

Then connect and configure the second Router like this.

Using Wireless Routers (or Modem/Wireless Router) as a Switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

You can use the ports of the second Router, or the Wireless, or both, it up to you, but the configuration has to be like described.


:cool:
I actually can connect now when connected to either wireless router with any type of device? Normally only have WR-1 connected and never had a problem with it. Haven't changed any settings for this project.
 

mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
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Maybe Netgear router's WAN port automatically converts to LAN port when you are cascading them? Some routers do have that functionality either automatically or must be configured manually.

In this case, the router becomes an AP access point like @JackMDS has mentioned above.

And it looks like it is acting this way, since one of your PC is getting 192.168.1.11 and your second router WAP port is getting 192.168.1.12 and acting as a LAN port uplink to router 1.

@Tech Junky and others are a lot better at this kind of topics.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
36,319
16,026
146
With the small office home office devices, you really just want to follow instructions like jack is providing. They get weird about config changes such as changing the whole subnet.

primary router does all the work, secondary is WAP + Switch, don’t use wan port, disable all services, and give it an IP statically not in the DHCP range

if the OP wants to learn about Network isolation, VLAN is the way to go. You can get something like a ubiquiti ER-X for about $50 and do all the isolation u want
 
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Fallen Kell

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Oct 9, 1999
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If you really are serious about learning about this, I would highly recommend picking up a cheap fully managed layer 3 switch off ebay. A layer 3 switch is both a switch and a router. It will let you create multiple subnets and routing rules to reach them (as well as create VLANs which is another whole layer of "virtual networks" such that you can have multiple address spaces which are seperate from each other but can be the same exact subnet, although you will find out the inherit problems of doing something like that if you still need to have devices contained on them communicate with each other).

While a ubiquiti ER-X as suggested would work for learning, I would actually recommend a Brocade ICX6450. This is usually about $120 from ebay or the like. The benefit over the ER-X is multi-fold. First off the brocade will have 48 GB ports as well as 4 SFP+ ports capable of 10GB. It is also a full layer 3switch with IPv4+IPv6 routing, L2/L3/L4 ACL's, VRRP, OSPF, SNMP, sflow, VRFs, tunnels, and even BGP support. Additionally it has both a web management interface as well as a command line interface with that interface sharing 90-95% the same as CISCO's command line interface, so that what you are learning is directly applicable to the defacto business/industry networking standard.

There is a thread on Serve The Home forums that talks about the switch I recommend.
It also has links to an excellent how to for initial setup (from wiping it, updating the firmware to the latest, and basic setup of the switch). There is also a decent web tutorial on youtube about the FastIron OS (the OS that runs on the switch) with how to set various items through the command line (but just about everything that can be done via command line can also be done in the web management, so that it makes it a much easier switch to learn on and you can then look at the configuration from the command line to see what it actually did under the hood as long as you know what to ask the switch to show you of it's configuration).
 
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briancb2004

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2022
11
0
6
If you really are serious about learning about this, I would highly recommend picking up a cheap fully managed layer 3 switch off ebay. A layer 3 switch is both a switch and a router. It will let you create multiple subnets and routing rules to reach them (as well as create VLANs which is another whole layer of "virtual networks" such that you can have multiple address spaces which are seperate from each other but can be the same exact subnet, although you will find out the inherit problems of doing something like that if you still need to have devices contained on them communicate with each other).

While a ubiquiti ER-X as suggested would work for learning, I would actually recommend a Brocade ICX6450. This is usually about $120 from ebay or the like. The benefit over the ER-X is multi-fold. First off the brocade will have 48 GB ports as well as 4 SFP+ ports capable of 10GB. It is also a full layer 3switch with IPv4+IPv6 routing, L2/L3/L4 ACL's, VRRP, OSPF, SNMP, sflow, VRFs, tunnels, and even BGP support. Additionally it has both a web management interface as well as a command line interface with that interface sharing 90-95% the same as CISCO's command line interface, so that what you are learning is directly applicable to the defacto business/industry networking standard.

There is a thread on Serve The Home forums that talks about the switch I recommend.
It also has links to an excellent how to for initial setup (from wiping it, updating the firmware to the latest, and basic setup of the switch). There is also a decent web tutorial on youtube about the FastIron OS (the OS that runs on the switch) with how to set various items through the command line (but just about everything that can be done via command line can also be done in the web management, so that it makes it a much easier switch to learn on and you can then look at the configuration from the command line to see what it actually did under the hood as long as you know what to ask the switch to show you of it's configuration).

Thank you
ch33zw1z and
Fallen Kell

I will look into both of them I appreciate everyone's suggestions.
 

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